Used car dealer sold really dodgy car
Discussion
Driver101 said:
Muzzer79 said:
OP - your sister hasn’t been sold a dodgy car.
Your sister has bought a car that’s had some damage and not been repaired very well.
You are blindly assuming this is all down to the dealer you bought it from and they are therefore responsible. This is a massive assumption.
It’s perfectly plausible that the dealer bought the car unknowingly. Who knows who repaired it?
Unless you can prove that the dealer was involved in this dodgy repair and/or covering up the accident status, you are on a hiding to nothing rejection-wise IMO.
The OP is getting an unfair ride in this thread. Your sister has bought a car that’s had some damage and not been repaired very well.
You are blindly assuming this is all down to the dealer you bought it from and they are therefore responsible. This is a massive assumption.
It’s perfectly plausible that the dealer bought the car unknowingly. Who knows who repaired it?
Unless you can prove that the dealer was involved in this dodgy repair and/or covering up the accident status, you are on a hiding to nothing rejection-wise IMO.
The car is a dodgy car. It has been deemed a CAT S write off, but is one of the cars that has slipped through the net and not recorded correctly.
Channel 4 tomorrow night is about this very topic.
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/wrecked-cars-found-...
The example in the article the man was given a refund. That's what the OP should be getting.
BertBert said:
The OP/sister effectively also have the finance company on their side. Discuss with them and agree a course of action. They will be calm and knowledgeable.
To the dealer's position, if the car is a category car, even if they didn't know, that burden falls on them, not the purchaser.
Hope you get it sorted OP. Do stay calm though as people have said.
And to all the "it'll buff out, happens all the time, nothing serious here". peeps, the OP's sister specifically asked whether the car had any damage and then finds it's cat S. The CRA is very much on her side as she made a specific request in the buying process.
Doesn't mean she'll get a good outcome, but she should do.
+1To the dealer's position, if the car is a category car, even if they didn't know, that burden falls on them, not the purchaser.
Hope you get it sorted OP. Do stay calm though as people have said.
And to all the "it'll buff out, happens all the time, nothing serious here". peeps, the OP's sister specifically asked whether the car had any damage and then finds it's cat S. The CRA is very much on her side as she made a specific request in the buying process.
Doesn't mean she'll get a good outcome, but she should do.
piddy44 said:
On reflection, & after my long-winded post last night, I think it's a simple case of the dealer failed to disclose Cat S status & failed to disclose any prior accident history in response to a direct question. Doesn't matter if it was on the register at the point of sale or not, as the dealer is the 'expert' & should have been able to spot the obvious accident history given things like the wing colour.
CRA's on sister's side. She should discuss with dealer & ask for full refund less amount for useage. If no joy then proceed legal route.
If dealer is a fly-by-night who's been in business for a short period then the above action is of course likely pointless.
I'd say its almost certain they didnt know, not that they failed to disclose.CRA's on sister's side. She should discuss with dealer & ask for full refund less amount for useage. If no joy then proceed legal route.
If dealer is a fly-by-night who's been in business for a short period then the above action is of course likely pointless.
They are however, as you say, deemed the experts so their due diligence should have picked up on this.
Being a written off car, categorised as Cat S salvage it is worth considerably less.
As per some of the recent comments, i'd present all the info to the dealer and ask for a refund (as my starting point).
There will likely be some consideration have to be made for usage as you say.
@Driver101 - Thanks for the link - wow, this now makes more sense - looks like it's being done on an industrial scale! - due to the shortage and rise in used car prices - a lot more Cat S cars coming back on the market! Criminals and gangs being involved!
@piddy44 - Thanks for the support and detailed reply - yes, my sister has only just reached out to me for help - she doesn't like asking for help so tries to do things herself - she doesn't have much car knowledge and trusted the dealer. Was also in a predicament as starting a new job and needed a car and this car seemed like a good affordable car at the time. Most of us with car knowledge can be fooled - as others have said in posts above.
You've covered much of my sentiments regarding the dealer who is the expert - he is the one selling goods - the onus is on him to make sure the car is safe and road worthy and as described!
good point about the air bags and seat belt pre-tensioners being replaced.
Great points made. Will shortly get a HPI done.
@Fckitdriveon, @Sterillium, @BertBert- thanks - as in life you come across all sorts - some people genuinely try to help, others take glee from your suffering and then everything else in between - good to see that others have seen the darker side of people posting on this thread.
@Deep Thought - My sentiments exactly
Not sure why people keep going on about being Calm - I'm not about to go f'ing and blind'ing to the dealer - that will get my sister no where - of course I will be calm but firm and put my points across and see what he has to say for himself.
Also with Cat S - isn't there something you have to do regarding re-registration with the DVLA - not sure what this entails
I've checked with companies, the dealer has been around since 2003
@piddy44 - Thanks for the support and detailed reply - yes, my sister has only just reached out to me for help - she doesn't like asking for help so tries to do things herself - she doesn't have much car knowledge and trusted the dealer. Was also in a predicament as starting a new job and needed a car and this car seemed like a good affordable car at the time. Most of us with car knowledge can be fooled - as others have said in posts above.
You've covered much of my sentiments regarding the dealer who is the expert - he is the one selling goods - the onus is on him to make sure the car is safe and road worthy and as described!
good point about the air bags and seat belt pre-tensioners being replaced.
Great points made. Will shortly get a HPI done.
@Fckitdriveon, @Sterillium, @BertBert- thanks - as in life you come across all sorts - some people genuinely try to help, others take glee from your suffering and then everything else in between - good to see that others have seen the darker side of people posting on this thread.
@Deep Thought - My sentiments exactly
Not sure why people keep going on about being Calm - I'm not about to go f'ing and blind'ing to the dealer - that will get my sister no where - of course I will be calm but firm and put my points across and see what he has to say for himself.
Also with Cat S - isn't there something you have to do regarding re-registration with the DVLA - not sure what this entails
I've checked with companies, the dealer has been around since 2003
Al U said:
OP, can I ask which company you used for the check that showed the accident damage please?
It was given by other's in earlier parts of this thread:https://www.vcheck.uk/
piddy44 said:
From what the OP has said, the replacement wing was obviously a different colour from the rest of the car & this was obvious when the bonnet was lifted. That would be obvious to any dealer & would/should have led to further investigation.
I can't imagine any dealer failing to lift the bonnet on a used car they were selling, as they'd want to do the basics of checking the oil & coolant at the very least. Nah, I'm sure the dealer knew exactly what was what with the car & thought 'Female buyer, perfect opportunity to shift this on to someone who won't be any the wiser'.
A mechanic lifting the bonnet to do any mechanical work is very unlikely to be looking for accident damage signs.I can't imagine any dealer failing to lift the bonnet on a used car they were selling, as they'd want to do the basics of checking the oil & coolant at the very least. Nah, I'm sure the dealer knew exactly what was what with the car & thought 'Female buyer, perfect opportunity to shift this on to someone who won't be any the wiser'.
The car having had a wing is very different to the car being written off salvage.
Did the O/P say it was obviously a different colour? I didnt read that anywhere?
If the car has been recorded as Cat S, the person who owned it when the repairs were made would have had to apply for a new V5 logbook
That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
Muzzer79 said:
If the car has been recorded as Cat S, the person who owned it when the repairs were made would have had to apply for a new V5 logbook
That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
It is a Cat S. The marker was never added to VCAR which would kick off those processes.That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
Tyre Smoke said:
It's not recorded as Cat S though is it?
This is the important bit isn't it. Is the car officially recorded as a Cat S? If it isn't, the dealer is going to say they've done nothing wrong...beyond being s
t at properly checking the cars they sell.I bet the majority of dealers just do a basic HPi. I think the team that run Vcheck have said in the past that dealers are largely uninterested in their service, which checks additional info [such as salvage].
BUG4LIFE said:
Tyre Smoke said:
It's not recorded as Cat S though is it?
This is the important bit isn't it. Is the car officially recorded as a Cat S? If it isn't, the dealer is going to say they've done nothing wrong...beyond being st at properly checking the cars they sell.I bet the majority of dealers just do a basic HPi. I think the team that run Vcheck have said in the past that dealers are largely uninterested in their service, which checks additional info [such as salvage].
It was written off because of an accident by the insurance company. The salvage was sent to salvage auction and categorised as Category S - Structural.
The dealer is deemed the expert and should have done the due diligence checks to pick this up. That is how the law would view it if it went to court.
Deep Thought said:
Muzzer79 said:
If the car has been recorded as Cat S, the person who owned it when the repairs were made would have had to apply for a new V5 logbook
That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
It is a Cat S. The marker was never added to VCAR which would kick off those processes.That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
Remember, we're looking at Dealer responsibility here. The dealer could quite feasibly say that he has done his checks, the car was not recorded as a Cat S, therefore he sold it on in good faith.
piddy44 said:
Just to be clear OP, there is nothing stopping anyone repairing a Cat car & putting it back on the road. It's just that a back-street repairer will do this with used parts & likely lower quality than an insurance approved workshop. It's NOT criminal (though a lot of repairs can be dubious, especially in 'certain' areas that have a reputation for it - Bradford, Brum etc).
Good news that the dealer has been on the go for 19 yrs. Have the discussion face to face, set out that you'd like to reject the car (assuming you do), see what the owner says & take it from there.
A good result would be a full refund less a grand or two for useage. A bad result would be that the dealer doesn't want to know, in which case I'd get myself a solicitor & proceed down that route asap.
this ^Good news that the dealer has been on the go for 19 yrs. Have the discussion face to face, set out that you'd like to reject the car (assuming you do), see what the owner says & take it from there.
A good result would be a full refund less a grand or two for useage. A bad result would be that the dealer doesn't want to know, in which case I'd get myself a solicitor & proceed down that route asap.
I would expect the dealer to refund minus mileage use, Would be a fair outcome.
Deep Thought said:
Muzzer79 said:
If the car has been recorded as Cat S, the person who owned it when the repairs were made would have had to apply for a new V5 logbook
That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
It is a Cat S. The marker was never added to VCAR which would kick off those processes.That V5 logbook notes the fact that the car is Cat S.
OP - does the logbook for your sister's car note it as Cat S?
If it doesn't, it's not a Cat S.....?
swiftguy said:
Not sure why people keep going on about being Calm - I'm not about to go f'ing and blind'ing to the dealer - that will get my sister no where - of course I will be calm but firm and put my points across and see what he has to say for himself.
For me, what I mean isn't "no effing" as I assumed you'd be like that anyway. My thoughts are that you need to get the right arguments lined up that have the biggest sway, not the more what if's that you have passionately gone on about (although I understand your angst). Things like whether the repairer should be in jail and stuff.That's why I said coordinate with the finance co as they will be porfessionals in these matters.
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