Discussion
Vantagemech.. said:
Still Mulling said:
Interesting, thanks. I have considered a CR-V.
There is the CR-V with the same engine in - but they do two power versions , think the higher may be the AWD version as some are only 2wd. I like the CR-V but for my budget the HR-V had far better spec (leather, pan roof, sign recognition, parking sensors and rear camera as standard - where the similar priced CR-V did not). Mine also has an "aero kit" and 18" wheels. IMO the 1.6 iDtec is one of the best diesels about.
My average economy in a civic with that engine was 67mpg with over 80mpg on a run. Smooth and refined, no timing belt to worry about.
wyson said:
I think the opposite to fiisch. SUV or MPV all the way if you have young kids in car seats.Once they are out of car seats and can sort themselves out, don’t have tons of gubbins, then back to a normal hatchback or estate.
So I reckon the SUV or Estate debate depends on how old your family is?
I disagree the bending over is a minor inconvenience if you have toddlers or little kids unable to sort themselves out. 2 little terrors, school run to nursery and junior school, that is a lot of bending over in 20min, twice a day, just for the buckling them in and out. Plus all the additional bending over if one of them pees their pants, drops something and you have to clean up etc. etc.
The higher boot line is better able to take little bikes, scooters and push chairs, dump jackets on top etc without pushing against the parcel shelf. With a deep boot, a folding pushchair can be slid in on its side vertically, taking up a slither of space against the side of the boot rather than having to lay it flat etc.
I’m looking for a family car too, so far have tried:
Ford Galaxy. Mrs liked it. Little terrors silent on the matter. Was refined and had a good ride, but at 4848mm long, a bit bus like. Loads of storage cubbies, very deep boot, 3 individual seats on the middle bench were massive bonuses.
Volvo XC40. Mrs liked it. One little terror liked it a lot, said it was really comfortable. Also refined with a good ride. 4450mm, a touch on the small side however.
Kia Sportage. Mrs neutral. Little terrors said it made them feel sick. Noisier and bumpier than the two above. Very good size at 4515mm.
Tesla Model Y. Mrs hated it because of its harsh ride. Tesla don’t do extended test drives, so the terrors didn’t get a say. Noisiest and bumpiest of all, although the tech was superb and size was good again at 4751mm. Probably the biggest I would want to go however.
The Sportage was the best size, something around 4600mm. Big enough to swallow all the gubbins, small enough not to feel too bus like driving around town and parking.
When I had this choice I went for an estate. I found that once children turned about 2 and few months they were capable of and usually preferred climbiing into their own car seats which was fine by me. All I needed to do then was their seatbelt whereas had I gone for an SUV I would likely still have been lifting them into their seats for years to come.So I reckon the SUV or Estate debate depends on how old your family is?
I disagree the bending over is a minor inconvenience if you have toddlers or little kids unable to sort themselves out. 2 little terrors, school run to nursery and junior school, that is a lot of bending over in 20min, twice a day, just for the buckling them in and out. Plus all the additional bending over if one of them pees their pants, drops something and you have to clean up etc. etc.
The higher boot line is better able to take little bikes, scooters and push chairs, dump jackets on top etc without pushing against the parcel shelf. With a deep boot, a folding pushchair can be slid in on its side vertically, taking up a slither of space against the side of the boot rather than having to lay it flat etc.
I’m looking for a family car too, so far have tried:
Ford Galaxy. Mrs liked it. Little terrors silent on the matter. Was refined and had a good ride, but at 4848mm long, a bit bus like. Loads of storage cubbies, very deep boot, 3 individual seats on the middle bench were massive bonuses.
Volvo XC40. Mrs liked it. One little terror liked it a lot, said it was really comfortable. Also refined with a good ride. 4450mm, a touch on the small side however.
Kia Sportage. Mrs neutral. Little terrors said it made them feel sick. Noisier and bumpier than the two above. Very good size at 4515mm.
Tesla Model Y. Mrs hated it because of its harsh ride. Tesla don’t do extended test drives, so the terrors didn’t get a say. Noisiest and bumpiest of all, although the tech was superb and size was good again at 4751mm. Probably the biggest I would want to go however.
The Sportage was the best size, something around 4600mm. Big enough to swallow all the gubbins, small enough not to feel too bus like driving around town and parking.
Edited by wyson on Friday 25th August 16:38
I don’t think I’d actually make the decision based on choosing between an SUV and an estate; I’d make it based entirely on the individual car. Some SUVs are terrible and some are miles better than all but the very best estates.
Personally I prefer the more upright seating position on an SUV and find saloons and estates can give me back ache. I either want to be sat upright or sat low down and flat like in a sports car. It’s also much easier getting children into the back seats of an SUV. I’ve never understood the argument that estates are more comfortable as I’ve always found SUVs to be far better.
E-Class Mercs are supposed to be a good benchmark but I always find them noisy and uncomfortable when compared to something like a Discovery. And something like an F-Pace is more pleasing to drive than both but with refinement and a decent size. The iPace I had for a day when my F-Pace went for a service was excellent and I’d be very tempted by one!
Personally I prefer the more upright seating position on an SUV and find saloons and estates can give me back ache. I either want to be sat upright or sat low down and flat like in a sports car. It’s also much easier getting children into the back seats of an SUV. I’ve never understood the argument that estates are more comfortable as I’ve always found SUVs to be far better.
E-Class Mercs are supposed to be a good benchmark but I always find them noisy and uncomfortable when compared to something like a Discovery. And something like an F-Pace is more pleasing to drive than both but with refinement and a decent size. The iPace I had for a day when my F-Pace went for a service was excellent and I’d be very tempted by one!
McMoose said:
When I had this choice I went for an estate. I found that once children turned about 2 and few months they were capable of and usually preferred climbiing into their own car seats which was fine by me. All I needed to do then was their seatbelt whereas had I gone for an SUV I would likely still have been lifting them into their seats for years to come.
I suppose it depends on the kids? Mine were fine getting in and out of the crossover SUV’s I tried. But its a good point that you should get the kids involved in a family car decision, some might struggle with it, especially if you are considering something very high.With the estate vs SUV debate, I could well imagine my preference tipping the other way if my circumstances were different.
Perhaps if I lived on a Scottish B road, I would find an estate a better compromise because I could enjoy the handling more, vs crawling through London traffic which is where I unfortunately do the majority of my motoring.
Perhaps if I were shorter or more lithe, banging my head on the door aperture wouldn’t be as much of an issue and I wouldn’t be looking for a car with a higher roof line. It happens more than ideal, especially during the morning school run if I’m a bit groggy!
Edited by wyson on Monday 28th August 14:11
Superb hatch has the same boot floor as the estate and only slightly less room overall.
Get a DCC car - yes, it can be floaty in normal, but in sport it is well tied-down.
Its USP is the huge room. I am 6’01” and can sit behind myself with inches to spare. Three across the back is fine.
Wide range of engines and some with AWD.
If you get a wet clutch DSG ‘box (avoid lowered-powered petrols) and look after it (follow oil change intervals), you shouldn’t have gearbox issues.
Love mine - does everything really well. It’s the 272 AWD mapped to 350bhp, but a 190 diesel would be a great car too, as is the 220 petrol.
To add, the L&K version has all the toys too. Everything you could need. The good ones sell very quickly too.
Get a DCC car - yes, it can be floaty in normal, but in sport it is well tied-down.
Its USP is the huge room. I am 6’01” and can sit behind myself with inches to spare. Three across the back is fine.
Wide range of engines and some with AWD.
If you get a wet clutch DSG ‘box (avoid lowered-powered petrols) and look after it (follow oil change intervals), you shouldn’t have gearbox issues.
Love mine - does everything really well. It’s the 272 AWD mapped to 350bhp, but a 190 diesel would be a great car too, as is the 220 petrol.
To add, the L&K version has all the toys too. Everything you could need. The good ones sell very quickly too.
Edited by dunc69 on Monday 28th August 13:57
stevemcs said:
7speed dry clutch eats itself, having said that so does the 7speed wet clutch. Personally I’d stick to a torque converter, very few dsg gearboxes that I’ve driven feel like they are in control at low speed.
Which from what I think I’ve gathered from feedback so far, leaves Peugeot (3008/5008) and possibly Citroën in the car-type and price ceiling I’m considering? Sorry, I’m not great on auto-box differences. stevemcs said:
7speed dry clutch eats itself, having said that so does the 7speed wet clutch. Personally I’d stick to a torque converter, very few dsg gearboxes that I’ve driven feel like they are in control at low speed.
What rubbish. There are hundreds of thousands of DSG, S-Tronic and PDK boxes out there. Some are poorly maintained and fail. I have had 5 of them (wet and dry clutches) and have looked after them properly. So far so good. The more recent ones are much better at parking speeds. The DSG on my Superb (DQ381 wet) feels the same as a torque converter at low speeds.
@OP The 1.4 / 1.5 TSI works well with DSG and I have personal experience from my wife’s Golf GT (1.4) and a friend’s Kodiak (1.5). Others think the wet clutch DSG is more reliable. It may be, but think of the odds considering how many are on the roads with VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Seat etc.
Have a look at a Superb hatch. They are huge both inside the cabin and in the boot.
Edited by dunc69 on Tuesday 29th August 09:55
dunc69 said:
What rubbish. There are hundreds of thousands of DSG, S-Tronic and PDK boxes out there. Some are poorly maintained and fail.
I have had 5 of them (wet and dry clutches) and have looked after them properly. So far so good. The more recent ones are much better at parking speeds. The DSG on my Superb (DQ381 wet) feels the same as a torque converter at low speeds.
@OP The 1.4 / 1.5 TSI works well with DSG and I have personal experience from my wife’s Golf GT (1.4) and a friend’s Kodiak (1.5). Others think the wet clutch DSG is more reliable. It may be, but think of the odds considering how many are on the roads with VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Seat etc.
Have a look at a Superb hatch. They are huge both inside the cabin and in the boot.
Duly noted, thank you.I have had 5 of them (wet and dry clutches) and have looked after them properly. So far so good. The more recent ones are much better at parking speeds. The DSG on my Superb (DQ381 wet) feels the same as a torque converter at low speeds.
@OP The 1.4 / 1.5 TSI works well with DSG and I have personal experience from my wife’s Golf GT (1.4) and a friend’s Kodiak (1.5). Others think the wet clutch DSG is more reliable. It may be, but think of the odds considering how many are on the roads with VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Seat etc.
Have a look at a Superb hatch. They are huge both inside the cabin and in the boot.
Edited by dunc69 on Tuesday 29th August 09:55
Raymond Reddington said:
Have you narrowed it down, or are you Still Mulling?
Indeed I am! Still awaiting confirmation from my work of whether I'm eligible for a company car, but if not I'll have to go and try on a few more cars (3008 springs to mind), then crunch some numbers regarding efficiency and weigh up my and the family's priorities. It really does boil down to length (and thus parkability/maneuverability) vs. efficiency (and thus ongoing fuel costs/environmental impact).
Still Mulling said:
Thanks Dunc. The hatch is on my mind, if I can be OK with the length.
I’d ruled out the 2 litre due to lower economy. Any real-world experience of the 1.4/1.5 vs 2 litre in that regard?
I’m also still not sure I’ve followed if there’s and issue with UK cars, smaller petrols + DSG?
I wonder if there is that much difference between the 2L TSI 190 (seems it has replaced the 220) and the 1.5?I’d ruled out the 2 litre due to lower economy. Any real-world experience of the 1.4/1.5 vs 2 litre in that regard?
I’m also still not sure I’ve followed if there’s and issue with UK cars, smaller petrols + DSG?
The 2L will be less stressed in everyday driving.
Stats say the 1.5 does 53mpg and the 2.0 does 46mpg (both combined figure).
Not much in that to be honest, even if both are optimistic in the real world.
Shabaza said:
If image isnt a problem, the happy medium between estate and SUV would be an MPV
For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
my touran is amazing and cost me £2k lol For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
dunc69 said:
Still Mulling said:
Thanks Dunc. The hatch is on my mind, if I can be OK with the length.
I’d ruled out the 2 litre due to lower economy. Any real-world experience of the 1.4/1.5 vs 2 litre in that regard?
I’m also still not sure I’ve followed if there’s and issue with UK cars, smaller petrols + DSG?
I wonder if there is that much difference between the 2L TSI 190 (seems it has replaced the 220) and the 1.5?I’d ruled out the 2 litre due to lower economy. Any real-world experience of the 1.4/1.5 vs 2 litre in that regard?
I’m also still not sure I’ve followed if there’s and issue with UK cars, smaller petrols + DSG?
The 2L will be less stressed in everyday driving.
Stats say the 1.5 does 53mpg and the 2.0 does 46mpg (both combined figure).
Not much in that to be honest, even if both are optimistic in the real world.
addey said:
We've got the 1.5 in a kodiaq (which I'd guess is slightly heavier and less aerodynamic) but the economy is miles away from those figures. Mid 30s for everyday driving, low 40s on a motorway run if I'm careful. I can't believe the 2.0 would be any worse than that
Good to know, thank you.:RunsOffToFuelCalcsInSpreadsheet:
Estate.
I'm not sure why so many people with children can't bend down to a normal car that isn't a faux-off-roader.
I had my first estate car (Mk1 Mondeo 2.0)at 23, it was driven with gusto, and have almost entirely had one in the household ever since.
The VAG 1.4 TSI is a great engine.
Whilst I like driving fast, the reality is that a family car with 150-200bhp is more than fast enough for the road nowadays.
I'm not sure why so many people with children can't bend down to a normal car that isn't a faux-off-roader.
I had my first estate car (Mk1 Mondeo 2.0)at 23, it was driven with gusto, and have almost entirely had one in the household ever since.
The VAG 1.4 TSI is a great engine.
Whilst I like driving fast, the reality is that a family car with 150-200bhp is more than fast enough for the road nowadays.
For me it’s more a question of why either of them. I have a roof box and tow bar fitted to my MX5 to negate any load carrying concerns. If you have kids, just buy a 2nd MX5.
Why sacrifice the joys of the NA power plant, the manual box, RWD and being able to captain a perfect steer at every motoring moment. It’s also a lovely place to be.
Why sacrifice the joys of the NA power plant, the manual box, RWD and being able to captain a perfect steer at every motoring moment. It’s also a lovely place to be.
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