EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Ankh87 said:
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more.
Absolutely this.All new car buyers scrap the car after they finished with it.
Drive it off a cliff even.
The sooner it goes tits up the day after the warranty expires, the better.
There is no such thing as the used car market.
Autotrader is a hoax, created by Russian trollbots to get us to eat more toast.
Or something...
Ankh87 said:
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more.
Interestingly, when Tesla was a much more fragile business, there were lots of people trying to short their stock. Musk later admitted there were good reasons to bet against Tesla, and one of those reasons relates to your point/question.In simple terms, if a new car lasts around 15 years, and it comes with a 3 year warranty, then after a couple of decades you have 80% of a manufacturer's fleet being out of warranty cars. All those cars need servicing and spares. So you can sell high-margin OEM parts and servicing to the owners of those cars. Musk was saying legacy car markers could sell their new cars at zero margin, because of the profit they could make from these older cars on the road.
Musk was also saying that is the traditional reason why new entrants to the car business usually go out of business, because they don't have the fleet of older cars which need high-margin replacement parts.
As a personal example, my model 3 is now three years old, and I've spent precisely zero on servicing. All it has needed are new tyres. Nothing goes wrong, no work is needed. It just works.
p1stonhead said:
Look at any number of the thousands of examples recorded online/youtube?….
It’s a meme at this point
It might be a 'meme' but that doesn't make it true. Some of the early Fremont built cars were dodgy with wide panel gaps etc but that is a long time ago now.It’s a meme at this point
Have a look at this video.... Tesla with 450,000 miles and which cost £8,900. The condition about travelling nearly half a million miles is interesting...
https://youtu.be/iRuJJtmN3fc?t=129
We see very few issues with EV's, they usually stand a better chance the someting with an engine in passing. Of the ones that I can rememeber failing, springs and suspension arms, track rod ends are the most common.
Brakes always tend to be in very poor condition, Tesla seem to be the worst but thats most likely down to how they brake.
I do think EV owners don't maintain there cars in the same way as traditional cars, I put this down to the fact there is no oil to change so the owners think they don't need a service.
Brakes always tend to be in very poor condition, Tesla seem to be the worst but thats most likely down to how they brake.
I do think EV owners don't maintain there cars in the same way as traditional cars, I put this down to the fact there is no oil to change so the owners think they don't need a service.
craigjm said:
JLR have just announced another battery recall for the I-Pace this time impacting only on cars built before 2019. There is no fix at present so the advice is to just not charge beyond 75%
I had an i-pace for three years before I got my Tesla. Nice to drive, nice interior, slow infotainment (mine was prior to the refresh), but it was unreliable. Mine developed a battery fault when it was only 18 months old which required the dealer giving me a FF Range Rover for two months as a courtesy car whilst they waited for parts. That is a car I wouldn't buy again, even with a warranty!
Shouting about battery longevity is going to be akin to shouting at clouds.
Early leafs and other cars with poor battery management genuinely suffer and there's certainly some unreliability around, I know ID3's have had atleast one recall regarding batteries.
But on the whole a battery pack is orders of magnitude more reliable than an ICE with essentially infinitely less maintenance costs. Although a motor probably has more maintenance costs than a petrol tank to work the analogy the other way.
I charge mine to 100% guilt free.
Early leafs and other cars with poor battery management genuinely suffer and there's certainly some unreliability around, I know ID3's have had atleast one recall regarding batteries.
But on the whole a battery pack is orders of magnitude more reliable than an ICE with essentially infinitely less maintenance costs. Although a motor probably has more maintenance costs than a petrol tank to work the analogy the other way.
I charge mine to 100% guilt free.
CheesecakeRunner said:
Why do so many electric versions of ICE cars have blanked-off grilles?I appreciate that the grille isn't really needed for cooling, and it probably improves aero by a tiny amount, but it just looks a bit rubbish.
Jk89 said:
nammynake said:
That is simply untrue. What specifically do you mean and what’s your source?
This is the problem with cults.Why can’t anyone be objective anymore?
Tesla build quality is Fisher price compared to European and Japanese cars.
Solid mechanicals as you'd expect but the interior is toss and is wearing poorly
Ankh87 said:
I recently watched a video where a YouTuber goes to see an EV mechanic to bust some myths about EVs. I think the video is rather old itself but it popped up on my feed.
They asked about battery life etc, which left me with more questions.
The EV mechanic said that you should really keep the car between 20-80% and try not to allow the car to charge either from below 20% or all the way up to 100% because that has an effect with the battery deg. So to me that means you actually only have 60% of the range available because you'll damage the battery which seems a bit daft. He said to look at it like red lining a car, it will damage the engine. OK I get that but the battery isn't the motor only is it? It is also the "tank" and "fuel" supply of the vehicle, so why are manufacturers saying an range of say 300 miles when it is only really 60% of that?
I know with ICE cars MPG is a load of tosh with what they all claim but the main thing is that it's not overly promoted unless it was/is an eco car as such. EVs also will only ever get that max range if the battery is at 100% health. As stated by the EV mechanic that ceiling drops each time you charge up to 100% or use a super duper charger.
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more. Going off the Telsa that AutoAlex bought, that car is practically say 4-6 owners mileage.
I'm thinking that at some point the reliability bubble will end and things will start to "break" and force people to buy a newer EV.
I can't see myself going full EV as it doesn't fit my needs but for my partner it would be OK as long as we get a charger installed.
Sort of true, sort of myth.They asked about battery life etc, which left me with more questions.
The EV mechanic said that you should really keep the car between 20-80% and try not to allow the car to charge either from below 20% or all the way up to 100% because that has an effect with the battery deg. So to me that means you actually only have 60% of the range available because you'll damage the battery which seems a bit daft. He said to look at it like red lining a car, it will damage the engine. OK I get that but the battery isn't the motor only is it? It is also the "tank" and "fuel" supply of the vehicle, so why are manufacturers saying an range of say 300 miles when it is only really 60% of that?
I know with ICE cars MPG is a load of tosh with what they all claim but the main thing is that it's not overly promoted unless it was/is an eco car as such. EVs also will only ever get that max range if the battery is at 100% health. As stated by the EV mechanic that ceiling drops each time you charge up to 100% or use a super duper charger.
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more. Going off the Telsa that AutoAlex bought, that car is practically say 4-6 owners mileage.
I'm thinking that at some point the reliability bubble will end and things will start to "break" and force people to buy a newer EV.
I can't see myself going full EV as it doesn't fit my needs but for my partner it would be OK as long as we get a charger installed.
Batteries don't like a high or low state of charge and left like that, so battery care is 20 to 80 rule of thumb. Charging to 100% overnight and driving the next day is fine, the same as driving to nearly zero and then charging.
Charging to 100% is also recommended for cell balancing. Just don't leave it at the airport at 100% and come back 2 weeks later. I mean, car and battery will still be fine, but if you want to take care of it, it's better to leave it half charged rather than fully.
So yeah, you've always got 100% battery usage at your disposal rather than the mythical 60%. Not to be confused with battery care recommendations, which are 20 to 80
Ice car can't be used fully until the oil warms up, but some will ignore that and floor it from cold. Same sort of principle. If you want to look after your vehicle, do it. If not, the life of it will shorten.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I think this video gives a pretty good "worst case" scenario. Their car has done over 100,000 miles with 38% of the charging being DC fast charged. As we know, it is fast charging which does the most damage to battery health. In this example, their battery has lost around 10-11% of its original capacity after over 100,000 miles.
And the battery degradation curve isn't linear; it tends to slow down with increasing age/mileage. So the next 100,000 miles will likely result in less capacity being lost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AbStgJrRic
Hmmm so that 15 minutes on a supercharger we were talking about to get you 150 miles will kill your battery? Doesn’t sound as good as the 450-600 miles you’ll get from filling an ICE car with a tank of fuel in 5 minutes. At 80% battery capacity, I wonder what the range is? Surely it’s the equivalent of buying a second hand phone that can barely make it through the day on a single charge? Meanwhile an ICE will do 250k miles with the same range and fuel efficiency. Doesn’t sound much progress to me.And the battery degradation curve isn't linear; it tends to slow down with increasing age/mileage. So the next 100,000 miles will likely result in less capacity being lost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AbStgJrRic
No doubt some angry, small man will be along in a moment to tell me I’m wrong.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff