EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Essarell said:
just spend a moment of your time out on the UK's roads, especially this impending bank holiday, my example is far from rare. In fact most vehicles will be loaded to the roofbox. I guess that's different though?
I have good insurance, not because i need it every day but because that once in blue moon time its needed it doesn't let me down, motorists feel the same way re EV, the thought of ending up stranded in a vehicle that in all likely hood will need (expensively) recovered is obviously a major concern. Still it's a PR problem apparently........
No they won’t. ~60% of journeys are solo occupancy with ~70% being less than 5 miles. The motorways will have a number of people carting a load of stuff hundreds of miles but they won’t even come close to a majority.I have good insurance, not because i need it every day but because that once in blue moon time its needed it doesn't let me down, motorists feel the same way re EV, the thought of ending up stranded in a vehicle that in all likely hood will need (expensively) recovered is obviously a major concern. Still it's a PR problem apparently........
How often do you see an EV broken down at the side of the road vs an ICE car? Running out of juice is a minor concern vs general mechanical reliability because it’s within your control. If people worry about that sort of thing then yes it’s a PR problem because it’s not actually a real problem, it’s one they’ve read or heard from a mate or simply made up.
If you need something very occasionally you’re better off renting it. I don’t drive a van for example because I rarely need one and they can be rented for buttons. I don’t need an apartment in New Orleans because I only spend 4-5 days a year there, I rent a hotel room. Fringe use is not a justification for ownership of anything, it’s a logical fail or just a crap excuse.
T_S_M said:
wormus said:
clockworks said:
wormus said:
Hmmm so that 15 minutes on a supercharger we were talking about to get you 150 miles will kill your battery? Doesn’t sound as good as the 450-600 miles you’ll get from filling an ICE car with a tank of fuel in 5 minutes. At 80% battery capacity, I wonder what the range is? Surely it’s the equivalent of buying a second hand phone that can barely make it through the day on a single charge? Meanwhile an ICE will do 250k miles with the same range and fuel efficiency. Doesn’t sound much progress to me.
No doubt some angry, small man will be along in a moment to tell me I’m wrong.
I've owned plenty of cars in the past 45 years.No doubt some angry, small man will be along in a moment to tell me I’m wrong.
I've never had a petrol car that would do 450 miles on a tank. Some would barely do 300.
I think I've owned just one diesel car that was capable of 600 miles, driven with care.
My E-tron (of a similar size to a Discovery) costs £12 to do the same miles charging up at home.
Admittedly, that doesn't include charging at public chargers but purely from a financial perspective the savings can't be ignored for the majority of people, NOT EVERYONE. That's before you get to the £500+/year tax on the Discovery and the cost of servicing etc.
ETA: Someone might correct my maths, but doing 15k miles a year, that works out to £3600 in fuel alone for a Discovery, vs £350 a year for the E-tron (charged up exclusively at home). An extra £3,000 a year in fuel alone!
Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 11:23
Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 11:25
Seasonal Hero said:
Essarell said:
An example of a family car that's absolutely no use as a family car for someone who tows a caravan every day and who has done zero research into the best solution for them?
FTFY.wormus said:
740EVTORQUES said:
wormus said:
My diesel discovery does 450-500 miles on a full tank.
Many people would rather walk than drive a diesel Discovery though.Having done that (the family holidays, not the caravan thing - horrid idea) I can tell you that you can't drive 450 miles with kids in the car and not expect to stop.
When I want my track day transporting I pay a man to do it for me, much nicer.
I did actually once have a Range Rover Sport as a loan car, hated it, and rang the hire company who supplied an XC90 instead the following day.
740EVTORQUES said:
wormus said:
Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.
Why do you want to do 450 miles (at least 10 hours in the real world) without the need to refuel?tupak798 said:
Same reason the pro EV loons seem to keep posting the same nonsense, it seems they have goldfish memories. If people are actually considering buying an EV based on some of their more 'fanciful' statements it is clearly important to keep presenting the truth. All these criticisms remain very valid and explain why very few are buying them, which I understood was the topic of this thread.
Spidey senses are tingling.I was curious as to who/what you might pick as inspiration for your newest login.
wormus said:
Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.
Why on earth would you want to drive from Dover to Edinburgh (8+ hours!) in one go?Last year I drove back from Glasgow to Shropshire (300 miles) in my petrol car. I stopped half way for 20 minutes because I needed whiz and was starving. If I'd have done this same journey in my EV, it would have taken exactly the same amount of time. I'd still need to stop for a whiz and crap Mcdonald's food, but my car would be charging at exactly the same time and have charged up enough in that time to get me home.
Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 14:04
Essarell said:
that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.
Because famously airliners never stop in, say, the Middle East to refuel. Essarell said:
that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.
Do you have a toilet and somewhere to go walk inside your car? Not sure an airliner is a valid comparison.I drive faster in my EV than I ever did with ICE because I don't need to worry about efficiency. 95% of journeys are within the range of the car and it costs pennies extra to go faster.
John87 said:
Essarell said:
that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.
Do you have a toilet and somewhere to go walk inside your car? Not sure an airliner is a valid comparison.I drive faster in my EV than I ever did with ICE because I don't need to worry about efficiency. 95% of journeys are within the range of the car and it costs pennies extra to go faster.
Essarell said:
the Shkoda video clearly demonstrated EV efficiency, OK as town cars but any kind of drag, either ballast or aero sends the vehicle into the utterly useless category, i would suggest that if current EV drivers don't really exceed the vehicles range, ie 150 miles or so, only make short local journeys then you've bought the wrong car, a small efficient petrol vehicle would give you years of reliable service. As stated many times 2.5 t town cars aren't really the answer to anything except a nice saving from BIK.
My typical journey is 50-80 miles each way. A mix of motorways and country roads.Do I have your permission to drive an EV? Where do I get the permit?
GT9 said:
Spidey senses are tingling.
I was curious as to who/what you might pick as inspiration for your newest login.
Think how sad his life must be that he has to keep coming on here to insult people who drive cars powered by electricity.I was curious as to who/what you might pick as inspiration for your newest login.
The whole idea of being anti-something that you don't have to buy is a bit odd. Even more odd to then actively insult those that have chosen to buy that thing. Surely if you believe that EVs are so crap, then owning/driving them should be enough of a punishment for those that chose them, and so the anti-EV crowd should quietly enjoy their lives in the smug knowledge that they are right?
Seasonal Hero said:
Essarell said:
the Shkoda video clearly demonstrated EV efficiency, OK as town cars but any kind of drag, either ballast or aero sends the vehicle into the utterly useless category, i would suggest that if current EV drivers don't really exceed the vehicles range, ie 150 miles or so, only make short local journeys then you've bought the wrong car, a small efficient petrol vehicle would give you years of reliable service. As stated many times 2.5 t town cars aren't really the answer to anything except a nice saving from BIK.
My typical journey is 50-80 miles each way. A mix of motorways and country roads.Do I have your permission to drive an EV? Where do I get the permit?
Essarell said:
the Shkoda video clearly demonstrated EV efficiency, OK as town cars but any kind of drag, either ballast or aero sends the vehicle into the utterly useless category, i would suggest that if current EV drivers don't really exceed the vehicles range, ie 150 miles or so, only make short local journeys then you've bought the wrong car, a small efficient petrol vehicle would give you years of reliable service. As stated many times 2.5 t town cars aren't really the answer to anything except a nice saving from BIK.
I'm sure a small petrol vehicle would be fine although not ideal for 60 miles on the motorway. My current EV is more comfortable, significantly cheaper to run, will easily last as long as I need it and has 476bhp to play with. It's really important to present a realistic impression not some rose tinted version of owning any particular car of course.
Luckily EV's record their charging in the companion app so here it is.
1 year, 12,500 miles.
Mostly charged at home eat 8p/kWh
In that time I have had to public charge 11 times
shortest 3 minutes
longest 26 minutes
(av charge rate 95kW so not even particularly fast chargers an not always bothering to preheat the battery)
(To be fair the 5 stops in excess of 10 minutes (26,19,21,18,19) were because of me wanting to buy and eat lunch so that was the car waiting for me not the other way round)
Total time spent (including eating lunch) 156 minutes
That's 3 minutes per week.
If you assume a generous 450 mile diesel range you wold have stopped 27 times to refuel, even at 4 minutes per stop (I'm assuming diesel refuelling is at F1 speeds?) that's 108 minutes, a saving of 48 minutes per year or 55 seconds per week (and you don't get to eat lunch, but lunch is for wimps and EV drivers I assume.)
How precious is your time that 55 seconds a week matters?
If you take out the eating time then the time spent charging would be around 100 minutes PER YEAR, ie less than the time spent refuelling a diesel.
Total cost £214 for public charging plus £313 for home charging ( av cost 86p/kWh public yes public charger are way to pricey!).
Total cost for the EV = £527
12,500 miles in a 40mpg diesel is around 312 gallons, at £1.50 per litre that's approx £2130
So the EV while being 55 seconds per week slower to refuel is around a 1/4 the cost.
If you take out the lunch break aspect the EV is actually more time saving as well as much more convenient.
Because facts matter.
Luckily EV's record their charging in the companion app so here it is.
1 year, 12,500 miles.
Mostly charged at home eat 8p/kWh
In that time I have had to public charge 11 times
shortest 3 minutes
longest 26 minutes
(av charge rate 95kW so not even particularly fast chargers an not always bothering to preheat the battery)
(To be fair the 5 stops in excess of 10 minutes (26,19,21,18,19) were because of me wanting to buy and eat lunch so that was the car waiting for me not the other way round)
Total time spent (including eating lunch) 156 minutes
That's 3 minutes per week.
If you assume a generous 450 mile diesel range you wold have stopped 27 times to refuel, even at 4 minutes per stop (I'm assuming diesel refuelling is at F1 speeds?) that's 108 minutes, a saving of 48 minutes per year or 55 seconds per week (and you don't get to eat lunch, but lunch is for wimps and EV drivers I assume.)
How precious is your time that 55 seconds a week matters?
If you take out the eating time then the time spent charging would be around 100 minutes PER YEAR, ie less than the time spent refuelling a diesel.
Total cost £214 for public charging plus £313 for home charging ( av cost 86p/kWh public yes public charger are way to pricey!).
Total cost for the EV = £527
12,500 miles in a 40mpg diesel is around 312 gallons, at £1.50 per litre that's approx £2130
So the EV while being 55 seconds per week slower to refuel is around a 1/4 the cost.
If you take out the lunch break aspect the EV is actually more time saving as well as much more convenient.
Because facts matter.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 28th March 14:32
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