EVs... no one wants them!

[Boringvolvodriver]

Auto810graphy said:

I believe this is the principle of the latest Nissan E-Powers and Renaults etc.

Saw an advert for these and did a bit of research- quite like the idea as there would be no range worry

[stanlow45]

I think some of the pro EV zealots on here should really watch this:



The entire net zero bullst agenda objective is utter horsest.

[Seasonal Hero]

The climate change thread is here

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[tamore]

stanlow45 said:

I think some of the pro EV zealots on here should really watch this:



The entire net zero bullst agenda objective is utter horsest.

it's mad isn't it. some of them actually think the earth is a globe too! bloody tinfoil hat wearing muppets.

[740EVTORQUES]

BMW tried the hybrid range extender thing with the i3 and de used that just sitting a bigger battery was a better solution

[Kinky]

Folks,

A polite notice to please keep it civil. If you can't, then please don't bother posting.

In addition, anything trollesque will result in a ban. Simple as.

[Chuffedmonkey]

CABC said:

if it was the Outlander that's a tax dodge car and a fail at so many levels.
for the future, petrol generator yes, but not drivetrain. I feel governments haven't helped the transition by promoting (poor) hybrids and not the infrastructure.

Poor infrastructure I agree. I do 400 to 600 mile a week and could charge at home but I own a non charge Hybrid, I cant charge it as it works hand in hand with the engine. However I get 50-58 MPG with a 2 liter petrol engine, 400 miles for around £ 50. Hybrids are good so I don't agree with your poor hybrid statement.

When I change in a year or several, as I plan on keeping this car for a while, ill look at Electric or keep the tech I am used too.

[Ankh87]

https://youtu.be/9WmT72c8YMQ?si=K8yRo04FMDtn-caK

Looks like Shell are making their move now. Seems I'm not the only one who is thinking that the Government are going to tax us more on our home electric to make up the deficit.

As I've mentioned, if you've got a home charger and your BEV is sending out information. Then it could send it to the Government and electricity companies to state there was 3 hours of EV charges so you pay more.

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough and see what they do decide.

[Dave200]

Ankh87 said:

https://youtu.be/9WmT72c8YMQ?si=K8yRo04FMDtn-caK

Looks like Shell are making their move now. Seems I'm not the only one who is thinking that the Government are going to tax us more on our home electric to make up the deficit.

As I've mentioned, if you've got a home charger and your BEV is sending out information. Then it could send it to the Government and electricity companies to state there was 3 hours of EV charges so you pay more.

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough and see what they do decide.

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Dave200 said:

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

Now this is where I start to struggle with the maths - say it went up to £20 compared to say approx £60 for a petrol car doing 40 mpg ish that is a saving of £40 per 350 miles. So on 10000 miles a year a saving of £1150 (if my brain is working).

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

I admit I don’t know whether the serving costs are lower (I would expect them to be?) but the price differential has to come down to encourage people like me to purchase an electric car.

[tamore]

and it will. said it somewhere else, but LFP batteries by CATL are expected to hit $56 kWh this year.

EVs don't fit everyone right now for a myriad of reasons. those reasons will be knocked over one by one rapidly over the next few years. no rush.

[EddieSteadyGo]

tamore said:

and it will. said it somewhere else, but LFP batteries by CATL are expected to hit $56 kWh this year.

EVs don't fit everyone right now for a myriad of reasons. those reasons will be knocked over one by one rapidly over the next few years. no rush.

Yeah, it's very much 'watch this space' in terms of the historical 30%+ pricing differentials. If manufacturers can buy a 65kwh battery pack at circa $3,500 at the cell level, there is no need for that car to be costing £30k retail, even accounting for VAT and import duty.

[dmsims]

No this again



Slower, smaller, less economical

and you are going to add more equipment to get near the ID3 Match

e.g. Matrix headlights, rear camera

Boringvolvodriver said:

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

[OzzyR1]

clockworks said:

I've owned plenty of cars in the past 45 years.
I've never had a petrol car that would do 450 miles on a tank. Some would barely do 300.
I think I've owned just one diesel car that was capable of 600 miles, driven with care.

Mine does 650 miles on a tank if I stick at 70-75mph, perhaps a bit more if averaging 65.
Seat Exeo diesel estate (2.0 Sport-Tech though!!)

Bought it 3 years ago when my commute changed to an 80 mile/day round trip on motorways and d/c's. The mpg fitted the bill far better than the car it replaced & being an estate can accommodate our 3 dogs in the back when needed.

Only posting to mention that a few diesel cars are capable of 600miles+ on a tank without needing to do 56mph in the inside lane.

No issue with EV's, would have one in a second but in my case it comes down to finances - overall cost rather than charging/re-fuelling alone.

Someone above said they had an Audi E-tron - assume SUV as mentioned similar size to a Discovery. No idea on outright cost or lease but say the latter is £400/month - over 3 years = c. £15K

The Audi a new car with all the bells and whistles whereas my Seat was already 8 years old when I bought it.

Plus point is it cost £4K to buy outright, and have spent c. £1,500 in the last 3 years on consumables/servicing while adding 50K miles.

Strangely, due to the rise in second-hand car prices and scarcity of estates in that price range, I could probably sell it for around £3K tomorrow even with the additional mileage looking at similar vehicles on Autotrader.

Might be more expensive to run my car than a new Etron when judged on refuelling costs alone, but like most folks I couldn't stretch to and/or justify spending £XXX/month to lease a brand new EV with my equivalent size/ load capacity requirements for number of family/dogs.

Likely the same for many others - leasing costs are very substantial for a new EV SUV/estate whereas my much older car gets me to the same place and has so far cost around £2.5K net (including potential re-sale value) for 50K miles over 3 years of ownership.

I would also add that despite having a car capable of 650 miles on a tank, the most I've ever done non-stop was Essex to Penzance in the early hours - 350 miles in around 5 and a half hours.
That was more than enough, the argument that being able to do 750 miles with only one 5 min fuel stop as a benefit over EV's taking 30 mins to re-charge is laughable.

[JAMSXR]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Now this is where I start to struggle with the maths - say it went up to £20 compared to say approx £60 for a petrol car doing 40 mpg ish that is a saving of £40 per 350 miles. So on 10000 miles a year a saving of £1150 (if my brain is working).

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

I admit I don’t know whether the serving costs are lower (I would expect them to be?) but the price differential has to come down to encourage people like me to purchase an electric car.

If you buy used the price has already come down lower than ICE.

[Dave200]

JAMSXR said:

If you buy used the price has already come down lower than ICE.

It's only been a few pages since the argument was about how used EV prices had tanked which showed a lack of demand, but now they are back to being too expensive again. It's hard to keep up.

[eliot]

Dave200 said:

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

Something will have to be done at some point because the government collect 53p duty and 20% vat on every litre of fuel sold, but only collect 5% vat on every kwh of domestic electricity sold.

Google suggests £26bn is raised on tax and duty - let’s assume hgv isn’t going ev anytime soon, so maybe £10bn deficit in tax that will need to be collected elsewhere


They cant do anything just yet - because ev sales would tank, but there will be a crossover point where they know they can implement it without any pushback - probably when ice cars are no longer made or prohibitively expensive.

proper bik rates for ev will return at some point too.

[Essarell]

The pro EV comments run along the lines of, “EV for round the doors and ice for when we need to travel farther than the next postcode “ The government mandate means we now have 2.5 t cordless vehicles on our city streets, who would have thought that this unintended consequence would befall us?

If it’s a cheap, reliable, practical car that’s required then why not one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024031375...

Cool as a penguins undercarriage

[Dave200]

eliot said:

Dave200 said:

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

Something will have to be done at some point because the government collect 53p duty and 20% vat on every litre of fuel sold, but only collect 5% vat on every kwh of domestic electricity sold.

Google suggests £26bn is raised on tax and duty - let’s assume hgv isn’t going ev anytime soon, so maybe £10bn deficit in tax that will need to be collected elsewhere


They cant do anything just yet - because ev sales would tank, but there will be a crossover point where they know they can implement it without any pushback - probably when ice cars are no longer made or prohibitively expensive.

proper bik rates for ev will return at some point too.

The problem is that it's possible to have a car charger installed that doesn't talk to the grid as I have. In that scenario it's impossible for the energy companies to tell what I'm using that overnight cheap energy rate for.

[Dave200]

Essarell said:

The pro EV comments run along the lines of, “EV for round the doors and ice for when we need to travel farther than the next postcode “ The government mandate means we now have 2.5 t cordless vehicles on our city streets, who would have thought that this unintended consequence would befall us?

If it’s a cheap, reliable, practical car that’s required then why not one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024031375...

Cool as a penguins undercarriage

I don't think that's what people here have said. My EV is our primary car and does more than the national average mileage per year. I have other cars but they are getting increasingly less use.