EVs... no one wants them!

[Caddyshack]

Monkeylegend said:

Archie2050 said:

I got an email from WBAC. Out of idle curiosity I clicked on it to get a valuation for my car.

£54,450 (I paid (£59,995 2 months ago)

Hardly catastrophic.

You might think it a bit more so if it continues at that rate for the next 10 months of ownership.

There will always be a drop from retail - what you pay to a trade purchase at wbac. Take 99% of the cars on a forecourt and run them through wbac or look at the black book prices and there will be 5-10k difference in the majority of cases.

[confused_buyer]

Just to be clear WBAC cannot purchase at trace price because they only sell on to the trade who then sell on for retail be it Cinch or third party.

WBAC has to buy at a lower price than a trade buyer somewhere is prepared to pay if they are going to clear a profit.

[jacob-thompson]

More price reductions. I wonder what that'll do to residuals...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/06/el...

Archie may as well drive off a cliff to get slower depreciation...

[page3]

jacob-thompson said:

More price reductions. I wonder what that'll do to residuals...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/06/el...

Archie may as well drive off a cliff to get slower depreciation...

Pretty misleading article as that price reduction relates to in-stock inventory, not factory orders. It also seems to have passed them by that these prices are re-adjusting back to the level they were at 18 months ago, as communicated at the time.

[Mark V GTD]

confused_buyer said:

WBAC has to buy at a lower price than a trade buyer somewhere is prepared to pay if they are going to clear a profit.

Doesn't seem to be how they work in reality though. My five month old A5 coupe with sub 3k miles was bought by them a week or so ago. They paid several thousand more than the trade buyers who approached me with offers via an Autotrader ad I ran. The supplying dealer of my replacement car (who has Audi dealerships within their group) offered over £2k less than WBAC. The Audi dealer who I bought it from declined to offer anything for it as they were fully stocked with A5's!

Work that one out!

[RVB]

Mark V GTD said:

confused_buyer said:

WBAC has to buy at a lower price than a trade buyer somewhere is prepared to pay if they are going to clear a profit.

Doesn't seem to be how they work in reality though. My five month old A5 coupe with sub 3k miles was bought by them a week or so ago. They paid several thousand more than the trade buyers who approached me with offers via an Autotrader ad I ran. The supplying dealer of my replacement car (who has Audi dealerships within their group) offered over £2k less than WBAC. The Audi dealer who I bought it from declined to offer anything for it as they were fully stocked with A5's!

Work that one out!

Same here.

I was offered £3.5k trade-in (petrol, not electric) even though they were a dealer for that make of car and they had been servicing it for the past few years so knew its history.

Manheim (via Autotrader) offered £5.3k and even after deductions for un-noticed marks on the car I got £5.2k.

WBAC offered £5.2k but that would probably have ended up being about £5k after deductions for un-noticed marks and their admin fees.

[500TORQUES]

page3 said:

Pretty misleading article as that price reduction relates to in-stock inventory, not factory orders. It also seems to have passed them by that these prices are re-adjusting back to the level they were at 18 months ago, as communicated at the time.

We have had over 10% inflation since then, it's a price drop in real terms.

[craigjm]

German and Italian governments are now trying to change the EU focus on ICE ban in 2035 to continue to allow sale of ICE cars that will run on e-fuels. If they manage to get that through I would say that electric cars are dead in the water

[anonymous-user]

craigjm said:

German and Italian governments are now trying to change the EU focus on ICE ban in 2035 to continue to allow sale of ICE cars that will run on e-fuels. If they manage to get that through I would say that electric cars are dead in the water

Except that

a) they won’t succeed , not least because there’s no credible plan to produce enough e-fuel and

b) Euro 7 and increasing numbers of zero emissions zones in cities will make pure ICE vehicles impractical, while PHEV’a will be forced to drive on EV only mode in those zones as they should.

Against this a pure BEV will be an attractive option.

[craigjm]

Archie2050 said:

craigjm said:

German and Italian governments are now trying to change the EU focus on ICE ban in 2035 to continue to allow sale of ICE cars that will run on e-fuels. If they manage to get that through I would say that electric cars are dead in the water

Except that

a) they won’t succeed , not least because there’s no credible plan to produce enough e-fuel and

b) Euro 7 and increasing numbers of zero emissions zones in cities will make pure ICE vehicles impractical, while PHEV’a will be forced to drive on EV only mode in those zones as they should.

Against this a pure BEV will be an attractive option.

Which is why I said if

[Discombobulate]

Archie2050 said:

Except that

a) they won’t succeed , not least because there’s no credible plan to produce enough e-fuel and

b) Euro 7 and increasing numbers of zero emissions zones in cities will make pure ICE vehicles impractical, while PHEV’a will be forced to drive on EV only mode in those zones as they should.

Against this a pure BEV will be an attractive option.

And c) EVs are, frankly, better at most things than their ICE equivalents. At least as daily drivers.

[Pica-Pica]

Discombobulate said:

Archie2050 said:

Except that

a) they won’t succeed , not least because there’s no credible plan to produce enough e-fuel and

b) Euro 7 and increasing numbers of zero emissions zones in cities will make pure ICE vehicles impractical, while PHEV’a will be forced to drive on EV only mode in those zones as they should.

Against this a pure BEV will be an attractive option.

And c) EVs are, frankly, better at most things than their ICE equivalents. At least as daily drivers.

and (d) EVs also have to meet Euro 7, which now includes tyre and brake particulate emissions. It will be interesting to see how current EV sizes and weights cope with the tyre emission levels.

[SpeckledJim]

Pica-Pica said:

Discombobulate said:

Archie2050 said:

Except that

a) they won’t succeed , not least because there’s no credible plan to produce enough e-fuel and

b) Euro 7 and increasing numbers of zero emissions zones in cities will make pure ICE vehicles impractical, while PHEV’a will be forced to drive on EV only mode in those zones as they should.

Against this a pure BEV will be an attractive option.

And c) EVs are, frankly, better at most things than their ICE equivalents. At least as daily drivers.

and (d) EVs also have to meet Euro 7, which now includes tyre and brake particulate emissions. It will be interesting to see how current EV sizes and weights cope with the tyre emission levels.

Well EV are very easy on their brakes, and almost all weigh a good bit less than a GLS560. If a GLS560 can pass, then I think the EVs can pass too.

[page3]

500TORQUES said:

page3 said:

Pretty misleading article as that price reduction relates to in-stock inventory, not factory orders. It also seems to have passed them by that these prices are re-adjusting back to the level they were at 18 months ago, as communicated at the time.

We have had over 10% inflation since then, it's a price drop in real terms.

It’s a price reduction of pre-registered stock, just like every other manufacturer. Our new pre-registered Peugeot e-2008 with suitable reduction didn’t make the news.

[CheesecakeRunner]

confused_buyer said:

Just to be clear WBAC cannot purchase at trace price because they only sell on to the trade who then sell on for retail be it Cinch or third party.

WBAC are part of BCA. Cinch are the public retail arm of BCA. WBAC don’t need to sell a car to anyone in order to resell it to the public. It just gets moved around one business.

[silent ninja]

My car - SEAT Ateca 1.5 petrol FR SPORT 2019 - hasn't lost any value in a year on WBAC, Cazoo and similar websites. I've checked in every couple of months and despite the increased mileage the valuation is £18-£19.5k. I'm in equity by about £6k and will be selling it come end of this month.

My next car is a salary sacrifice lease and it's electric so I couldn't give two hoots how it depreciates. It doesn't make sense to PCP an electric (GFV's are too high and unpredictable), but cash buyers are seeing some juicy deals atm especially with Tesla announcing a second price cut.

[confused_buyer]

CheesecakeRunner said:

WBAC are part of BCA. Cinch are the public retail arm of BCA. WBAC don’t need to sell a car to anyone in order to resell it to the public. It just gets moved around one business.

If it's a car which Cinch wants and they still have to account for the profit element internally like all dealers.

[itlab]

Another set of price cuts on teslas

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64867287

this won't help the second hand markets confidence in them.

[vikingaero]

itlab said:

Another set of price cuts on teslas

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64867287

this won't help the second hand markets confidence in them.

Soon Teslas will be available for £49, but they'll charge you a fortune for charging, much like printers/ink.

[jacob-thompson]

itlab said:

Another set of price cuts on teslas

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64867287

this won't help the second hand markets confidence in them.

Ouch! Between their massive price hemorrhaging and the EU car 'ban' delays / e-fuel stuff EVs are finished.