Buying cars in the North and bringing them South

[Mr Tidy]

It's not always what you know it's who you know!

Early 2019 I bought a 3 Series from Cambridgeshire so not too far North, but quite a trek from Berkshire. A mate was taking a car he was selling to Anglia Car Auctions on his transporter so we picked the 3 Series up on the way back.

Then at the end of 2019 I bought a Z4 from Rutland. Same mate came with me in the 3 Series and his trade plates so he drove one back and I drove the other.

Might be a bit more tricky with 4 cars but I'm sure he would know someone!

[Auto810graphy]

Thats What She Said said:

Shiply

Word of advice, especially with cars and expensive parts, Shiply are an introducer.

If the courier decides they like what they pick up they can steal it. Shiply will wash their hands of it and it the courier turns off their pay as you go phones and registered at a fake address there is not much you can do. Any theft becomes a civil matter as you effectively passed the goods to them.

[trashbat]

0ddball said:

What you mean is, you don't want to have to stand by your responsibilities of being a trader, a.k.a you want to be a scummy backstreet trader.

You are buying to sell for a profit, 1 car a year makes you a trader

Plus, have you actually seen the cheaper cars up close? I know round here (Bradford area) 9 out of 10 cars on Facebook are lemons and most are cat S write offs (whether declared or not). There is probably a good reason they are cheaper.

I probably wouldn't buy a car from here in urban Manchester for similar reasons.

[vikingaero]

Rust. They salt the roads Oop Nurf and Scotland a lot earlier and for a lot longer than Dahn Sarf.

I bought a car from Glasgow and rust was a major issue and a southern car would have lasted longer. Even PH Member Slow(?) who lives in the Highlands prefers to travel down south and buy a car as rust is less of an issue.

[griffter]

Cars have always been cheaper up north; more so in the days of classifieds and paper Autotrader. Although I think there’s a point beyond which they get more expensive again as people value not having to traipse down south to buy one!

In answer to your question it’s quite a nice idea to enjoy your time in retirement. I’d start by getting the train and driving back; you’re unlikely to be picking up cars from next door to each other. In time you could rope your daughter or a friend in to a mini-break; take one car up and bring two cars back.

After a while you might build up a nice little network of familiar B&Bs and maybe even some trade contacts. Or you might invest in a trailer or flatbed. Without the pressure of making a living I imagine it would be good fun.

[Bobupndown]

griffter said:

Cars have always been cheaper up north; more so in the days of classifieds and paper Autotrader. Although I think there’s a point beyond which they get more expensive again as people value not having to traipse down south to buy one!

In answer to your question it’s quite a nice idea to enjoy your time in retirement. I’d start by getting the train and driving back; you’re unlikely to be picking up cars from next door to each other. In time you could rope your daughter or a friend in to a mini-break; take one car up and bring two cars back.

After a while you might build up a nice little network of familiar B&Bs and maybe even some trade contacts. Or you might invest in a trailer or flatbed. Without the pressure of making a living I imagine it would be good fun.

I think this is what id do. If youre retired and your time is your own turn it into a mini break / road trip. If youre covering your costs and making a few £££ on top its a win, as long as you aren't relying on it to make your living.

[DickyC]

Bobupndown said:

I think this is what id do. If youre retired and your time is your own turn it into a mini break / road trip. If youre covering your costs and making a few £££ on top its a win, as long as you aren't relying on it to make your living.

When I was trade plating I bought a Senior Citizen's Railcard. Big savings.

If you go to fetch a car by rail, see how much a return ticket costs. If it's at less than two singles, buy it. You're in a much better position than having to buy a ropey car because you need the transport.

It's not exactly the same but it illustrates the point, I dropped a car in London and took the train to King's Lynn to fetch a van. When I got there, the van was in Liverpool. I had to buy a ticket back to London. The return would have cost me 10p more.

[SteveStrange]

OP don't forget to whip off the nice OEM catalytic converters to weigh in, and replace with £50 ebay specials, like that other highly responsible and reputable driveway trader on here.

[GreatGranny]

OP, when I retire I want to keep active, maybe do a little job 2 days a week so I don't get too bored, do more cycling, travel more etc. but buying and selling cars wouldn't even be on my radar just for the hassles it could potentially bring.

Just spending 3-4 days oop north viewing and buying the cars plus transporting will cost you maybe £1000.
Then prepping, sorting the inevitable issues, advertising etc another £100+ per car and you soon have very little profit.
Out of the 4 cars sold maybe 1 will have issues after sale which you may get hassle for, you may just say private sale, unlucky.
Then when you come to sell another car that buyer will be on Facebook slagging you off etc..

Maybe a cynical and pessimistic view of how things could pan out

[Driver101]

I agree with the comments it's wrong you want to make profit off cars without taking on the responsibility of being a dealer.

If you're on the look out for bargain basement 17 year old cars you are going to encounter many lemons. Most of the cheap cars are cheap for a reason.

[trashbat]

People have talked about HMRC stuff but you should also be aware that, if identified as a trader, a load of consumer law applies to you like SOGA. You can't sell cars "sold as seen" or "to trade", your buyer has rights, and it won't be hard for them to figure that out. Obviously some people do swap their cars a lot and may happen to make a profit, so it's not impossible, but if you wanted to claim that you were a private seller then you'd probably need to evidence that you weren't doing this for business in any way, and that you were actually making personal use of the cars.

[yellowbentines]

griffter said:

Cars have always been cheaper up north; more so in the days of classifieds and paper Autotrader. Although I think there’s a point beyond which they get more expensive again as people value not having to traipse down south to buy one!

Yes, that point is the Scottish border!

I'm West of Scotland and have travelled to Eastbourne, Birmingham and three times to Manchester over the last decade or so to buy Mercs, as the same dealer group owns all of the West of Scotland main dealers (Glasgow North & South, Hamilton, Ayr) so there was no competition and they know most won't travel too far.

[coldel]

I think as some have hinted, your main things to be concerned about is less about how to get the cars down south, but more around how your responsibilities as a seller are legally. You say the prices are really marked in differnece, but are you comparing private sales up north to dealer prices down south? If you are pricing your cars at dealer levels there will be an expectation that the CRA 2015 applies, someone comes back asking for repairs, have you set yourself up for that? Car sales are now a big legal minefield, you have to make sure you are set up to deal with that. Clearly your proposition as it stands is a business not a private sale.

I get its literally an early doors style asking the question but actually the transportation cost in my mind is the easiest part vs all the other costs you could incur.

[cliffords]

coldel said:

I think as some have hinted, your main things to be concerned about is less about how to get the cars down south, but more around how your responsibilities as a seller are legally. You say the prices are really marked in differnece, but are you comparing private sales up north to dealer prices down south? If you are pricing your cars at dealer levels there will be an expectation that the CRA 2015 applies, someone comes back asking for repairs, have you set yourself up for that? Car sales are now a big legal minefield, you have to make sure you are set up to deal with that. Clearly your proposition as it stands is a business not a private sale.

I get its literally an early doors style asking the question but actually the transportation cost in my mind is the easiest part vs all the other costs you could incur.

Yes my original question remains related to transport only. All the other aspects highlighted are additional considerations, many of which I was also aware of and considering, along now with some additional aspects that have been raised. Some of the comments have been helpful and raised valid points, some less so. It remains work in progress for me with an exploratory trip now planned in two weeks. I will not update or monitor this post further, again thank you to the positive contributions.

Edited by cliffords on Tuesday 7th March 13:23

[JonDerz]

OverSteery said:

My understanding is that if you buy a single car to sell for a profit, strictly speaking you are a trader. I could be wrong.

Are you planning on registering the cars to you, insuring or taxing them?

You have to sell 3 cars a year to be considered a trader.

[trashbat]

JonDerz said:

You have to sell 3 cars a year to be considered a trader.

Show us this in law somewhere. As far as I'm aware, this is not the case. You may have to do a certain volume of business to qualify for certain things like trade insurance policies, but that's a commercial policy choice.

[soxboy]

ZedLeg said:

How do I get the job of HMRC guy who just sits on PH all day trying to figure out new ways to tax powerfully built company directors?

I used to work for a part of HMRC and sat on PH all day.

Nothing sinister, just couldn’t be arsed doing actual work.

[Snow and Rocks]

DickyC said:

There was a trader here in Newbury who did just that. He bought cars in the North and in Scotland and sold them here in the south. Seemed to make a reasonable living.

Most people up here in Aberdeenshire travel south to buy cars! Not only are they typically cheaper, there's more choice and they're in better condition as they've not had to deal with 7 months a year of roadsalt.

[sixor8]

trashbat said:

JonDerz said:

You have to sell 3 cars a year to be considered a trader.

Show us this in law somewhere. As far as I'm aware, this is not the case. You may have to do a certain volume of business to qualify for certain things like trade insurance policies, but that's a commercial policy choice.

It's pub drivel. I've had up to 5 cars in a year sometimes, but they've all been registered in my name and used a little before being sold.

The pavement traders pretending to be private and avoiding responsibility are the ones who 'only have the green slip mate' or 'never got round to registering it..' or some-such. To be legally operating as a trader is different, as you say, trade policies etc.. vehicles will be 'in trade' and legally untaxed.