Secondhand car price crash? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
My experience is that having just spent £50k on a car the dealer in question, JLR, had no hesitation in offering me a test drive. To be frank if they hadn’t I wouldn’t have bought it. So it’s horses for courses. Not all dealers are the same, not all buyers are the same, however if I wanted to sell something and the purchaser wanted to buy then that is part of the process of selling the product. You can’t guarantee a sale obviously, because if the car hadn’t come up to my expectations then I shouldn’t be expected to commit.
PhilkSVR said:
My experience is that having just spent £50k on a car the dealer in question, JLR, had no hesitation in offering me a test drive. To be frank if they hadn’t I wouldn’t have bought it. So it’s horses for courses. Not all dealers are the same, not all buyers are the same, however if I wanted to sell something and the purchaser wanted to buy then that is part of the process of selling the product. You can’t guarantee a sale obviously, because if the car hadn’t come up to my expectations then I shouldn’t be expected to commit.
The test drive discussion was in relation to people looking for new lease / company cars but going in to their local dealers (who they had no intentions / ability to buy off) and test driving cars / consuming the sales persons time.Deep Thought said:
The test drive discussion was in relation to people looking for new lease / company cars but going in to their local dealers (who they had no intentions / ability to buy off) and test driving cars / consuming the sales persons time.
Isn't some of that viewed as part and parcel of being a member of the dealer network?Fast Bug said:
AlexNJ89 said:
If I wanted to lease a car, what's the best way to drive one to see if I like it before leasing it?
Be up front with the dealer and don't be surprised if they decline your requestFast Bug said:
Just be honest with the dealer and you'll be surprised how many will pop you in a demo and won't spend much time with you and concentrate on someone that might actually buy a car from them.
If there's a chance they'll decline my request there makes no sense in saying I'm window shopping.Deep Thought said:
The test drive discussion was in relation to people looking for new lease / company cars but going in to their local dealers (who they had no intentions / ability to buy off) and test driving cars / consuming the sales persons time.
I don’t know if it’s the same these days but manufacturers used to have centralised fleet loaners which they’d usually deliver to you for a few days. Merc didn’t have the model on our list so they said bear with us a few days and we’ll register one. Sure enough they did, then drove from High Wycombe to Chester for me.Some manufactures would leave cars at our head office. Peugeot brought a 406 to an off-site meeting - but madly they brought a 3 litre petrol one, with very little tread on the front tyres so the ABS went mental slowing for the speed bumps on the hotel’s drive!
Ford had a company car drivers “club” which provided test loaners.
The only one I had hassle with was Audi - we were told the business centre of any Audi dealer would facilitate a test drive. My local one near enough told me to sod off. I called our Audi contact and 15 mins later the dealer called me to ask when they could deliver a car to me.
Fast Bug said:
AlexNJ89 said:
If I wanted to lease a car, what's the best way to drive one to see if I like it before leasing it?
Be up front with the dealer and don't be surprised if they decline your requestThe salesman said was I interested, and I said one day but not in the market at the moment,
Well we can take it out for a test drive anyway. Lovely way to spend an hour.
I did get a 997 eventually from a private seller .but continued to use that dealership for servicing. But like I say it was back in the day.
As i am actively looking for performance hatches for sale at the moment, i am frustrated by the number of private sellers who are asking dealer retail level of prices. After numerous phone calls, sometimes the car having been on sale for ages, they still wont budge much on price - "waiting for the right buyer" response.
I am talking 20k cars that most people would reluctantly buy private anyway, and plenty would need to organise finance on.
The M140I market is a case in point. Insurance has gone through the roof on these ( modified cars especially) and finance isn't what it was.
It just feels that plenty of private sellers are being unrealistic, and then when they cant sell after months of listing, take a big hit through the car buying services, when instead if they say, set the price between trade and retail, the car would have sold ages ago - that's what i did!
I know there has always been unrealistic private sellers but in the 35 years i've been driving, its nuts now!!
I am talking 20k cars that most people would reluctantly buy private anyway, and plenty would need to organise finance on.
The M140I market is a case in point. Insurance has gone through the roof on these ( modified cars especially) and finance isn't what it was.
It just feels that plenty of private sellers are being unrealistic, and then when they cant sell after months of listing, take a big hit through the car buying services, when instead if they say, set the price between trade and retail, the car would have sold ages ago - that's what i did!
I know there has always been unrealistic private sellers but in the 35 years i've been driving, its nuts now!!
oceanview said:
As i am actively looking for performance hatches for sale at the moment, i am frustrated by the number of private sellers who are asking dealer retail level of prices. After numerous phone calls, sometimes the car having been on sale for ages, they still wont budge much on price - "waiting for the right buyer" response.
I am talking 20k cars that most people would reluctantly buy private anyway, and plenty would need to organise finance on.
The M140I market is a case in point. Insurance has gone through the roof on these ( modified cars especially) and finance isn't what it was.
It just feels that plenty of private sellers are being unrealistic, and then when they cant sell after months of listing, take a big hit through the car buying services, when instead if they say, set the price between trade and retail, the car would have sold ages ago - that's what i did!
I know there has always been unrealistic private sellers but in the 35 years i've been driving, its nuts now!!
I think a lot of people still expect the sky high prices we saw during COVID with cars being in short supply and expect to be able to name their price.I am talking 20k cars that most people would reluctantly buy private anyway, and plenty would need to organise finance on.
The M140I market is a case in point. Insurance has gone through the roof on these ( modified cars especially) and finance isn't what it was.
It just feels that plenty of private sellers are being unrealistic, and then when they cant sell after months of listing, take a big hit through the car buying services, when instead if they say, set the price between trade and retail, the car would have sold ages ago - that's what i did!
I know there has always been unrealistic private sellers but in the 35 years i've been driving, its nuts now!!
Theres obviously merit in buying a performance car from the owner, but its certainly not a dealer level pricing situation.
I've a friend of a friend selling a 2017 Golf GTI Edition 40. He would argue its the "optimum spec" as its a manual and a 3 door but in reality the 5 door DSG variant is what most people want.
Its been for sale for 4 months now.
Its a relatively low miler and i know for a fact hes being bid £15K for it on a trade in, which when his new car comes (imminently) hes going to have to suck it up and accept that.
I made enquiries about it and he "wont take a penny less" than £18,000 for it which CAP HPI say is full dealer retail for it.
"but you're going to accept £15K trade in"
"I know but i wont take a penny less than £18K for it on a private sale".
Deep Thought said:
I think a lot of people still expect the sky high prices we saw during COVID with cars being in short supply and expect to be able to name their price.
Theres obviously merit in buying a performance car from the owner, but its certainly not a dealer level pricing situation.
I've a friend of a friend selling a 2017 Golf GTI Edition 40. He would argue its the "optimum spec" as its a manual and a 3 door but in reality the 5 door DSG variant is what most people want.
Its been for sale for 4 months now.
Its a relatively low miler and i know for a fact hes being bid £15K for it on a trade in, which when his new car comes (imminently) hes going to have to suck it up and accept that.
I made enquiries about it and he "wont take a penny less" than £18,000 for it which CAP HPI say is full dealer retail for it.
"but you're going to accept £15K trade in"
"I know but i wont take a penny less than £18K for it on a private sale".
I am glad someone can relate to it!!Theres obviously merit in buying a performance car from the owner, but its certainly not a dealer level pricing situation.
I've a friend of a friend selling a 2017 Golf GTI Edition 40. He would argue its the "optimum spec" as its a manual and a 3 door but in reality the 5 door DSG variant is what most people want.
Its been for sale for 4 months now.
Its a relatively low miler and i know for a fact hes being bid £15K for it on a trade in, which when his new car comes (imminently) hes going to have to suck it up and accept that.
I made enquiries about it and he "wont take a penny less" than £18,000 for it which CAP HPI say is full dealer retail for it.
"but you're going to accept £15K trade in"
"I know but i wont take a penny less than £18K for it on a private sale".
I am more than willing to pay a good price, particularly for the options i would like but, even taking that into account, the prices and no budging, that lots of private sellers are asking, its just nuts!!
I might understand it more, if it were ordinary stuff in the 7-10k bracket but, as it is, i might as well hold out for a dealer car and at least i get some protection/warranty that i wouldn't get with delusional private seller.
Deep Thought said:
I made enquiries about it and he "wont take a penny less" than £18,000 for it which CAP HPI say is full dealer retail for it.
"but you're going to accept £15K trade in"
"I know but i wont take a penny less than £18K for it on a private sale".
Similar story with a motorhome I was looking to buy back in February. Saw one which ticked about 18 of 20 boxes for me spec wise, so pretty much perfect. He had it up for £47k, Mileage was toppy for a MH and it was a premium brand, meaning there's a lot to go wrong on the fixtures and fittings, and the difficulties getting replacement parts. About £5k of his price was because he had a massive solar set-up and lithium battery storage meaning you never needed shore power which appealed to me a lot, but he was clearly trying to recoup those costs in his asking price. I sought advice from a MH dealer on here and given the mileage and its relative rarity over here, he said it was £35k on a px for something else, or £30k to buy with it no px, then put it on the forecourt for £40k with full prep."but you're going to accept £15K trade in"
"I know but i wont take a penny less than £18K for it on a private sale".
I really wanted it so spoke to him and offered him £40k and he responded with a counter offer of £42.5k. I could have gone to that price, but I was mindful of how much I'd potentially lose if I didn't gel with it and had to move it on myself, so stuck to £40k. He refused to budge and I got this :
""Hi xxx,
I have heard all these stories from dealers many times, the reality is different as there is no xxx for sale under £57,000 at the moment especially if you want to live off grid and be independent, my price is £42,500 and not a penny less, I know I will sell it to the right person and I am not desperate to sell.
Again up to you."
He also told me that he'd had it listed for sale on Ebay since Christmas 2023. I left my offer on the table "if you change your mind, you've got my number" etc and left it at that. Nothing. As it happened my own circumstances changed and I'm not getting a MH now so in a way he dd me a favour by knocking me back, but I digress...
He's still trying to sell it now. I've watched him drop the price to 45, 42, 41, 40, 38, 37 and now he's down at 36.and still no bites. He's got it on autotrader now too, so 6 months at £20/month on Ebay + £60 for 3 weeks on autotrader means he's getting on for £200 just in ad fees. I bet he's kicking himself now for not accepting my offer, but he's "not desperate to sell" so maybe not!
It's not just cars, it does seem that those early post COVID years have played with people's heads when it comes to pricing and all the news regarding inflation and prices going up everything costing more private sellers seem to think they can also ask what they want and people will still pay it.
Back a few weeks ago I enquired about a villa for a week's holiday in Spain, the guy wanted £3k for the week, in previous years I have paid for similar vilas in the same resort £1800 for end of June. Sent him some examples of what villa businesses charge and he got back with it's only his third year and not really up on the pricing and offered it for £2.5k, I said £2k and he said no...fair enough. He now has it up for £1590 late deal...He is going to struggle to get that with less than 3 weeks and flights over £200 more than they were a few weeks ago. Maybe people need to learn the hard way and this will take a while longer to play out.
Back a few weeks ago I enquired about a villa for a week's holiday in Spain, the guy wanted £3k for the week, in previous years I have paid for similar vilas in the same resort £1800 for end of June. Sent him some examples of what villa businesses charge and he got back with it's only his third year and not really up on the pricing and offered it for £2.5k, I said £2k and he said no...fair enough. He now has it up for £1590 late deal...He is going to struggle to get that with less than 3 weeks and flights over £200 more than they were a few weeks ago. Maybe people need to learn the hard way and this will take a while longer to play out.
I think there are lots of people in various finance holes, whether that be for cars, MHs, boats and airbnb (etc) property "investments".
All purchased at peak, all need offloading and the finance or payments covering. Almost everyone I know who bought a car or a Holiday home 18m to 2y ago are in a mess of various sizes with them.
Lots of people are just not equipped mentally for business and business transactions. Just the way it is. Plus, they're never gonna tell you the truth about the circumstances.
It will take a while to unwind.
All purchased at peak, all need offloading and the finance or payments covering. Almost everyone I know who bought a car or a Holiday home 18m to 2y ago are in a mess of various sizes with them.
Lots of people are just not equipped mentally for business and business transactions. Just the way it is. Plus, they're never gonna tell you the truth about the circumstances.
It will take a while to unwind.
r3g said:
Deep Thought said:
A mate of mine sells stuff at that end of the market and he's tortured with "yes I'll buy it, I'll give you £100 now and pay you £100 a week" err... no.
And people buying at that end of the market really don't have money for repairs...
And people buying at that end of the market really don't have money for repairs...
Yes we are getting it quite frequently now. Just last friday had a guy wanting a Festa Zetec we've got up for a grand and wanted to pay in instalments We wouldn't have done it regardless, but just to play the same silly game I told him 500 today and then 3 payments of 250, and we'd hold the car for him here until he's made his final payment. It was all light-hearted as he was the son of one of our regulars, but he genuinely couldn't see any issues in his kind offer of paying £200 now, taking the car away, and then making another 4 payments of £200 at later dates 
. Apparently me adding £250 interest and keeping hold of the car was me scamming people Unsurprisingly no response was forthcoming when I made the bold suggestion to get a grand loan from his bank and then you'll have all the money to drive it away today and the bank loan would be at a much lower interest rate too.We have to keep going outside and checking that the sign above the door does still say "XYZ MOT Centre" and not "XYZ Financial Services".
She calls her self a Christian. I told her she should have given it to them.
e-honda said:
Did he ever phone you back to try and take your £42.5k offer?
No! But my offer was only ever £40k. He's well past that now and is trying to get £36k for it currently.I think most people (myself included) are guilty of thinking our vehicle is worth more than what it actually is when it comes to pricing it up for an ad. The reality starts to dawn about 3 weeks into your 4 week Ebay classified ad when you still have it sat outside and the 2 offers you've had in that time have both been 20% less than what you're hoping to get for it
. Your stubbornness to "not take a penny less than x" because you've just thrown a load of money at it to fix mechanical issues or refurb the wheels/spruce up the paintwork is money you'll never see back and you end chasing the market down before eventually caving in 2 months later at the end of your 2nd ebay classified ad and do a px with a dealer for 30% less than you originally had it up for, just to get it gone .You can see plenty of evidence of this pricing delusion in the PH Classifieds and also in the Car & Classic ads.
r3g said:
e-honda said:
Did he ever phone you back to try and take your £42.5k offer?
No! But my offer was only ever £40k. He's well past that now and is trying to get £36k for it currently.I think most people (myself included) are guilty of thinking our vehicle is worth more than what it actually is when it comes to pricing it up for an ad. The reality starts to dawn about 3 weeks into your 4 week Ebay classified ad when you still have it sat outside and the 2 offers you've had in that time have both been 20% less than what you're hoping to get for it
. Your stubbornness to "not take a penny less than x" because you've just thrown a load of money at it to fix mechanical issues or refurb the wheels/spruce up the paintwork is money you'll never see back and you end chasing the market down before eventually caving in 2 months later at the end of your 2nd ebay classified ad and do a px with a dealer for 30% less than you originally had it up for, just to get it gone .You can see plenty of evidence of this pricing delusion in the PH Classifieds and also in the Car & Classic ads.
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