EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
dmsims said:
Why do people keep buying diesel Range Rovers?
Maybe because the range is an issue on the petrol variants? Diesel on a big heavy 2+ tonne SUV makes perfect sense. A petrol will be lucky to do 300 miles on a tank whereas a derv will do 450 miles. BricktopST205 said:
If you can afford to drop 100+k on a car then fuel costs are irrelevant anyway.
The diesel models are cheaper and JLR build some fairly refined diesel engines that you’re sheltered from the noise from in a Range Rover. I would imagine that first reason is enough for most private buyers.
740EVTORQUES said:
This all sounds far too reasonable.
When an ICE vehicle can drive from Surrey to Cambridge and back for £7 and refuel itself overnight while I’m sleeping then I might consider one again.
Just to get the thread back on track
It isn't getting it back on track though is it.When an ICE vehicle can drive from Surrey to Cambridge and back for £7 and refuel itself overnight while I’m sleeping then I might consider one again.
Just to get the thread back on track
You've just highlighted my post asking why people feel the need to justify their choice.
moktabe said:
What I fail to understand is the need for people to justify their choice of car whether it be ICE or EV.
Why worry if folk don't like it it? Does it really matter?
I buy my cars for me me and if my choice is generally thought of as a bad choice then so what? I wouldn't dream of arguing about my choice and neither would I be expecting everyone to think it was wonderful even if they were coming out with crap about it.
Much easier just to buy whatever we want to buy, enjoy driving it and not giving two hoots about whatever anyone thinks about it.
Purchase justification is as old as, well, purchasing.Why worry if folk don't like it it? Does it really matter?
I buy my cars for me me and if my choice is generally thought of as a bad choice then so what? I wouldn't dream of arguing about my choice and neither would I be expecting everyone to think it was wonderful even if they were coming out with crap about it.
Much easier just to buy whatever we want to buy, enjoy driving it and not giving two hoots about whatever anyone thinks about it.
It can be triggered internally or externally and aggravated by challenges or a lack of support.
People get annoyed if you laugh at their decision to drop £60K or a grand a month on something that looks like a play dough experiment and has as much soul as a dog turd. That's not me by the way - I have no interest in talking to EV drivers about their cars and even less in insulting random strangers. The right reaction is to ignore the laughing person but instead it triggers purchase justification and the insults start. Try driving some of my cars. It's impossible to fill up with fuel without some smartarse commenting on how expensive it must be to run/will break down shortly/etc. I laugh.
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment (clue - not traffic lights and straight lines). If I needed to minimise running costs on a car then an EV might come onto my radar. Once you take that out of the equation I'm simply not interested because of all the other characteristics that contrast with what I like in my cars.
I get that some people need or just want to take advantage of salary sacrifice schemes, BIK rules, cheap charging, no servicing, auto warming and cooling and feel that they are helping the environment. Good on them! It doesn't make you or the car better than me and mine. Similar argument going on about autos vs manuals. A significant number unwilling to accept the choice and preference of others without making digs.
Unreal said:
Purchase justification is as old as, well, purchasing.
It can be triggered internally or externally and aggravated by challenges or a lack of support.
People get annoyed if you laugh at their decision to drop £60K or a grand a month on something that looks like a play dough experiment and has as much soul as a dog turd. That's not me by the way - I have no interest in talking to EV drivers about their cars and even less in insulting random strangers. The right reaction is to ignore the laughing person but instead it triggers purchase justification and the insults start. Try driving some of my cars. It's impossible to fill up with fuel without some smartarse commenting on how expensive it must be to run/will break down shortly/etc. I laugh.
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment (clue - not traffic lights and straight lines). If I needed to minimise running costs on a car then an EV might come onto my radar. Once you take that out of the equation I'm simply not interested because of all the other characteristics that contrast with what I like in my cars.
I get that some people need or just want to take advantage of salary sacrifice schemes, BIK rules, cheap charging, no servicing, auto warming and cooling and feel that they are helping the environment. Good on them! It doesn't make you or the car better than me and mine. Similar argument going on about autos vs manuals. A significant number unwilling to accept the choice and preference of others without making digs.
You make some good points.It can be triggered internally or externally and aggravated by challenges or a lack of support.
People get annoyed if you laugh at their decision to drop £60K or a grand a month on something that looks like a play dough experiment and has as much soul as a dog turd. That's not me by the way - I have no interest in talking to EV drivers about their cars and even less in insulting random strangers. The right reaction is to ignore the laughing person but instead it triggers purchase justification and the insults start. Try driving some of my cars. It's impossible to fill up with fuel without some smartarse commenting on how expensive it must be to run/will break down shortly/etc. I laugh.
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment (clue - not traffic lights and straight lines). If I needed to minimise running costs on a car then an EV might come onto my radar. Once you take that out of the equation I'm simply not interested because of all the other characteristics that contrast with what I like in my cars.
I get that some people need or just want to take advantage of salary sacrifice schemes, BIK rules, cheap charging, no servicing, auto warming and cooling and feel that they are helping the environment. Good on them! It doesn't make you or the car better than me and mine. Similar argument going on about autos vs manuals. A significant number unwilling to accept the choice and preference of others without making digs.
However, I just think it's sad that anyone feels the need for justification of anything they either buy or do in life.
Just get on with it, enjoy the choices made and b
ks to what anyone else thinks.Dave200 said:
Unreal said:
nickfrog said:
I was thinking the same. No one has to like EVs, no one has to even buy them. Yet here we go, instead of saying "not for me", people just can't stop protesting with weird arguments but next to zero direct experience.
Why? (I have asked before but no comprehensible answer was given).
Well allow me to try and explain.Why? (I have asked before but no comprehensible answer was given).
Non EV enthusiasts such as myself explain why they don't want an EV but also state how happy they are for EV enthusiasts to exercise their choice.
This is unacceptable to EV enthusiasts. It can't be left there. They must prove that EVs are a better form of propulsion than ICE vehicles. Anyone arguing back is portrayed as stupid, naive, resistant to change, unqualified to judge, environmentally irresponsible and driving an inferior vehicle.
You need to ask yourself why my postion is broadly "crack on mate" whereas the EV fan feels the need to bludgeon my rejection of the EV offering into submission.
We are reaching peak EV when £60K and more versions are portrayed as all conquering heroes with otherworldly performance.
It reminds me very much of the pressure applied to unvaccinated people. Their view mirrored mine - crack on mate - based on the admission that the vax didn't prevent personal infection or transmission - but the opposing view that everyone had to be vaccinated had to be accepted as right. One group was good and one bad. Only one group didn't care what the other group did and one supported compulsion.
Please just accept that EVs aren't for everyone and not everyone wants one, regardless of the arguments. Drop the apparent need to convince people they're wrong, along with the hyperbole and superior tone. I don't see anyone trying to persuade people back into ICE. See the difference?
Instead we've got a load of people who don't want EVs (which in itself is fine) making up a bunch of lies and inventing niche or nonexistent scenarios to justify their choice.
We've got a bunch of people who don't want EVs (which is fine in itself) telling us why EVs are rubbish without any real world experience of them.
We've got a bunch of people who don't want EVs (which is fine in itself) doing their best to disprove mainstream, established science by reproducing spurious science that supports their bias.
This thread is flooded with people who don't want EVs who can't help themselves but keep coming back (and keep registering new accounts) to repeat the same falsehoods and niche scenarios to justify their position.
If those people could just settle at "I don't want an EV because I prefer my ice car", then there would be no argument or debate, because that's just personal preference and that's absolutely fine. But they don't.
And EV owners, with real world experience, who are disputing the nonsense I've listed above are being called zealots and bigots.
Finally, it's nothing like vaccination at all, no matter how much your persecution complex might convince you of that. You're free to buy whatever new car you want for the next decade, and beyond that you're free to own whatever used car you want. Literally nothing like vaccination.
Edited by Dave200 on Thursday 23 May 07:21
romft123 said:
Agree with the above 100%. The very vocal, I am not going to get an EV ever folks seem weird to me, telling us all what THEY dont want? If YOU dont want to buy an EV, then....errrr dont buy one. BUT dont try and spin BS etc. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one. The vast majority of EV owners ALSO own an ICE. And have driven an ICE car for quite a while before deciding that an EV .....IS FOR THEM! The vast majority of anti EV folks have NEVER driven an EV and are very vocal that they have no desire to do so. Well fill your boots, AND DONT BUY ONE THEN. And NO , I dont own an EV.
U ok hun?Unreal said:
romft123 said:
Agree with the above 100%. The very vocal, I am not going to get an EV ever folks seem weird to me, telling us all what THEY dont want? If YOU dont want to buy an EV, then....errrr dont buy one. BUT dont try and spin BS etc. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one. The vast majority of EV owners ALSO own an ICE. And have driven an ICE car for quite a while before deciding that an EV .....IS FOR THEM! The vast majority of anti EV folks have NEVER driven an EV and are very vocal that they have no desire to do so. Well fill your boots, AND DONT BUY ONE THEN. And NO , I dont own an EV.
U ok hun?romft123 said:
Unreal said:
romft123 said:
Agree with the above 100%. The very vocal, I am not going to get an EV ever folks seem weird to me, telling us all what THEY dont want? If YOU dont want to buy an EV, then....errrr dont buy one. BUT dont try and spin BS etc. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one. The vast majority of EV owners ALSO own an ICE. And have driven an ICE car for quite a while before deciding that an EV .....IS FOR THEM! The vast majority of anti EV folks have NEVER driven an EV and are very vocal that they have no desire to do so. Well fill your boots, AND DONT BUY ONE THEN. And NO , I dont own an EV.
U ok hun?Unreal said:
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment
You’re just as bad. It’s a fking Yaris, not a Ferrari. It’s a bodykitted and breathed on version of what is sold to old people to go and pick up their pension in. “The car in front is a Toyota”. Yeah, only because it’s going so slow and all over the road being driven by an old biddy you can’t f
king overtake it. CheesecakeRunner said:
Unreal said:
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment
You’re just as bad. It’s a fking Yaris, not a Ferrari. It’s a bodykitted and breathed on version of what is sold to old people to go and pick up their pension in. “The car in front is a Toyota”. Yeah, only because it’s going so slow and all over the road being driven by an old biddy you can’t f
king overtake it. romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Unreal said:
That's the current plan but it has changed once already. Advocates and governments are trying to hold the line but plenty of time for more events and more changes. 2035 is a long way off and given current progress they'd just set themselves up to fail by bringing it forward. Far more important things to worry about such as China taking Taiwan, Vlad occupying Ukraine and Israel nuking Tehran.
We've left 2035 legally open so changes can be made if needed. The key is that you still want to keep those who can switch doing so as we head towards 2035 as their adoption will drive the creation of the infrastructure required for those to start switching in the 2040s, which the ZEV Mandate will probably do quite nicely. For folks who really wish to keep using ICE for the next 20-30 years then planning ahead is all that is required. People who can't think, can't work out a basic plan or who prefer to spend the next decade railing against the change will just be making their own problems.
otolith said:
The change in plan was dropping a requirement for hybrids from 2030, the EV date hasn't changed.
The 2035 UK ICE ban will get kicked into touch when a significant portion of the electorate (those without off street charging) realise that EVs are simply not going to be viable for them at such an early date. Manufacturers most likely realise this and will have contingency plans in place.Unreal said:
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Next point - we want to reduce CO2. The majority of the population are behind taking concrete steps to avoid climate change when polled.
Next point - Electrification is the only realistic step once increasing ICE efficiency reaches diminishing returns (which it has)
Next point - therefore we should electrify the car market at the fastest pace possible bearing in mind - technical feasibility, cost and lastly customer preference.
We should bear in mind that historically customers have been driven towards more efficient power trains by a combination of dictated choice (eg CO2 based edicts at the market level) and by the customer benefit (Lower running cost - real e.g fuel or artifice e.g tax)
Nothing new here, once the EV market driven by adoption, legislation and technology has enough solutions at the right price point for the market this will become easy. The forecast for this point is 2030 through to 2035. Wealthier countries will be faster (see Norway) and that’s OK
Olivera said:
The 2035 UK ICE ban will get kicked into touch when a significant portion of the electorate (those without off street charging) realise that EVs are simply not going to be viable for them at such an early date. Manufacturers most likely realise this and will have contingency plans in place.
We'll see what happens, but that's pure wishful thinking in my opinion. We've got a decade to cater for the minority of new car buyers who would currently find the practicalities of not having an ICE car unacceptably inconvenient (that's not the same as the people who currently don't want or can't afford one). If that's insurmountable, we are pathetic.Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff