The Family Van Question

[chrisdk]

Feel like this should be a more common question but maybe I’m the outlier here….

I’ve decided we need a family van as:
1) holiday trips with the parents / in-laws are more common (so need to seat 4 adults plus 2 children),
2) as a four, we’re fans of a camping / cycling weekend (but have a tent so not looking for a camper)
3) frequently end up transporting various school children round after football matches, birthday parties etc.

Ideally what I’d like is a “proper” six seater V70 (current car) with similar luggage space so this seems to rule out the Galaxies / XC90 etc of this world (sceptical as to how much luggage space they offer once six up ?).

So what do you pick ? Ideally keep it below £25k.

Obvious choice seems a Toyota Alphard ? Bit oddball but seems to tick all the boxes ? Decent top spec for £15k ? I prefer these over the Nissan / other JDM equivalents.

The dream purchase would be a Caravelle but not sure what an extra £25k gets me over the Alphard (seems half decent ones start around £40k). The nature of short trips round town puts me off the diesels on offer. Resale value is a positive factor but concerned the scene tax will hold over the next 3-5 years of ownership in current economy.

R Class is probably too small ? Unless the LWB version can do the 6 plus luggage comfortably ? Maybe roof box and bike rack on the back ?

Other options like Peugeot Traveller spring to mind ? But seem like they fall between the Alphard and Caravelle options ? More expensive than one but not as nice a package as the other ?

MPG not really a consideration and I’m no badge snob (also thinking Dacha Jogger ?), more about the application for the money more than anything.

Cheers.

[Silvanus]

Was thinking similar myself and possibly looking at some sort of van based transport for out next car. If you like the Alphard, but ultimately fancy something like a Caravelle then you should take a look at the Hyundai i800. Solid cars, UK spec and obviously its Hyundais direct aim at the transporter class of vehicles. They aren't as popular as the VW but have quite the following. Something like the one bellow, plenty on Autotrader. There are tons of Euro manufacturer passenger vans but they are all a bit 'vanny'. A few other interestig options bellow.



https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207147...

The newer shaped Mitsubishi Delicas are really good, much rarer than the Hyundai but offer a more rugged type of vehicle. £12k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208098...

Honda Stepwagons also look like a good bet. £12k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209089...

Most car like would be a Cyrysler Grand Voyager, it ca be had with a big lazy 3.8V6. £14k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205256...

A similar thing to the Toyata is the Nissan Elgrand, quite a large selection available. £18k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207288...

The Dacia Jogger is getting great reviews from the press and owners, not eay to get hold of though (I fancy the 2023 hybrid).

Edited by Silvanus on Sunday 25th September 19:28

[WelshRich]

I have a very similar use case OP, and currently have an old (T5) Caravelle. I’d actually like to swap it for a Discovery (probably a D4) which I think would be just as practical as the VW but I’m a bit hesitant due to the stories of poor reliability.

[CouncilFerrari]

I was in pretty much the same situation and went for a Transporter Kombi. Or rather, I bought an ex Sky panel van and then lobbed some windows and an extra row of seats in it. The back row of seats fold up and clip in and out if you use the right VW parts to convert it, so you can use it as a van if you need to. Although, even with the seats in, there's tons of room for camping equipment, pushchairs, bikes etc
As it's a Transporter, all the bits including VW Kombi floors and seats can be found on eBay without much difficulty.

e.g seats
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204098987102?hash=item2...

mounts
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255398636855?hash=item3...

floor
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265734295396?hash=item3...

basically it's piss easy to make a 'factory' Kombi out of a panel van.

Edited by CouncilFerrari on Sunday 25th September 13:17

[vexed]

Very interested in the opinions on this thread.
We have 4 kids. You are right to be sceptical about boot space in galaxies and cars of that ilk- my wife has a Seat Alhambra and with all seats up the boot space is fairly miserable. I need to occasionally fit 4kids, and also regularly carry road and mountain bikes around. A scruffy V70 has been ideal for a few years, except the need now for 4th childseat.
My budget is £20k.
I think a disco 4 would suit me well but have been scared off by the buyers guides and potential unexpected bills.
I've been looking at vans- what I would want in terms of age, milage and seating is not cheap. Also a significant number of my journeys are just me going to work so a van is a compromise there.
My current solution is being on the waiting list for a Jogger. I was pleasantly surprised on a test drive but still looking around in case there is a better alternative. I've budgeted for a tow bar, decent hinged rear bike rack and possibly a small trailer for camping or tip runs. The Jogger is a reasonable size and the seating is perfectly fine for kids and not bad for adults but it is a stretched version of a stretched Clio chassis so not the biggest car. Not a big boot at all with all 7 seats up.

[vexed]

Should we be looking at a Mercedes Viano? Petrol 3.5 for Daddy, plenty of space for anklebiters. Can't remember noticing one in the flesh to comment on boot space with all the seats up.

[ED209]

Mercecedes Vito sport x dualiner, sure they only have 5 seats but you could replace the front captains chairs with a 3 seat bench. Easy 260hp and shed loads of torque with a remap.

[HelldogBE]

vexed said:

Very interested in the opinions on this thread.
We have 4 kids. You are right to be sceptical about boot space in galaxies and cars of that ilk- my wife has a Seat Alhambra and with all seats up the boot space is fairly miserable. I need to occasionally fit 4kids, and also regularly carry road and mountain bikes around. A scruffy V70 has been ideal for a few years, except the need now for 4th childseat.
My budget is £20k.
I think a disco 4 would suit me well but have been scared off by the buyers guides and potential unexpected bills.
I've been looking at vans- what I would want in terms of age, milage and seating is not cheap. Also a significant number of my journeys are just me going to work so a van is a compromise there.
My current solution is being on the waiting list for a Jogger. I was pleasantly surprised on a test drive but still looking around in case there is a better alternative. I've budgeted for a tow bar, decent hinged rear bike rack and possibly a small trailer for camping or tip runs. The Jogger is a reasonable size and the seating is perfectly fine for kids and not bad for adults but it is a stretched version of a stretched Clio chassis so not the biggest car. Not a big boot at all with all 7 seats up.

I own a Dacia (Dokker 90hp diesel) myself for the business but a fully loaded 100hp Jogger might not be that fun to drive. The size might work for now, but as the kids grow you might run out of room in the third row or luggage space anyway. It would definitely be the cheapest to own if you run it into the ground due to the cheap parts and servicing and starting off with a brand new car compared a well-used secondhand example. Also don't expect the same comfort as say a VW Golf or better. The chassis is more simple and there's less sound deadening. It will get you everywhere, but if you do a lot of long journeys and are coming from more expensive metal you might find its shortcomings nagging at you on longer journeys.

Unfortunately I don't think any good 6-seater MPV's are made anymore and you're forced into a van if you're regularly going to use 6-up and need a big boot at the same time. They do come with higher running cost, consumption and the problem of its size when parking or manoeuvering.

The Vito/Viano with a 3.0 diesel V6 (124cdi) is superb for room, comfort and performance but residuals are very high. It's also a lot more complex due to the van-layout (engine which needs the front off for more complicated jobs as well as air suspension which will inevitably need maintenance). The size can be daunting when parking both in length (for the LWB) and width. The weight and chassis also shows it's size and weight on narrow windy roads, it's definitely more at ease in a straight line at speed.

The Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota van might be a good compromise as they are cheaper but very efficient. The 2.0 HDI combined with the 8-speed (or older 6-speed) are pretty good. It's a FWD-setup compared to the Viano (Vito does come in FWD-variants also in the cheaper vans). Residuals are a lot poorer than the MB & VW vans, so take that into account if you're not planning on running it into the ground.

Don't really know about the Transporters as the residuals are so high for what they are. The aftermarket for these is great if you want to upgrade stuff.

[Insert Coin]

A VW T6 all the way, so good that I sold my other toys as I always preferred to take the van.

Tip runs, bikes, furniture, mobile beach hut, fishing, paddle boards, camping, 4 up to Le Mans etc.

And with a VW you can Barry it up as much or as little as you like. (I like)

[kiethton]

The V class could work, especially with the facing exec seats. Seem to be a little out of budget for the newer ones (and you may get missed for an Uber if in London) but are nice places to travel:

Seems like PH won't take autotrader links....

[ED209]

HelldogBE said:

I own a Dacia (Dokker 90hp diesel) myself for the business but a fully loaded 100hp Jogger might not be that fun to drive. The size might work for now, but as the kids grow you might run out of room in the third row or luggage space anyway. It would definitely be the cheapest to own if you run it into the ground due to the cheap parts and servicing and starting off with a brand new car compared a well-used secondhand example. Also don't expect the same comfort as say a VW Golf or better. The chassis is more simple and there's less sound deadening. It will get you everywhere, but if you do a lot of long journeys and are coming from more expensive metal you might find its shortcomings nagging at you on longer journeys.

Unfortunately I don't think any good 6-seater MPV's are made anymore and you're forced into a van if you're regularly going to use 6-up and need a big boot at the same time. They do come with higher running cost, consumption and the problem of its size when parking or manoeuvering.

The Vito/Viano with a 3.0 diesel V6 (124cdi) is superb for room, comfort and performance but residuals are very high. It's also a lot more complex due to the van-layout (engine which needs the front off for more complicated jobs as well as air suspension which will inevitably need maintenance). The size can be daunting when parking both in length (for the LWB) and width. The weight and chassis also shows it's size and weight on narrow windy roads, it's definitely more at ease in a straight line at speed.

The Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota van might be a good compromise as they are cheaper but very efficient. The 2.0 HDI combined with the 8-speed (or older 6-speed) are pretty good. It's a FWD-setup compared to the Viano (Vito does come in FWD-variants also in the cheaper vans). Residuals are a lot poorer than the MB & VW vans, so take that into account if you're not planning on running it into the ground.

Don't really know about the Transporters as the residuals are so high for what they are. The aftermarket for these is great if you want to upgrade stuff.

I have a V6 Vito and it doesn’t have air suspension, just conventional springs. It’s a 122 cdi (224hp) the earlier ones were 120 cdi (204 hp).

With a mild remap it’s hilarious in the mid range due to the torque available.

[samoht]

I think the Alphard would be great personally, less of a van than most other options but still huge.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207187...

[Belle427]

Make a huge difference no matter what people tell you about estates etc being the better option.
We have an older T5 Lwb and it’s fantastic to load for family holidays.
Personally knowing the Vw scene I’d avoid them and look at something like the above which represents much better value for money.
We thought about converting our T5 for camping and I almost choked when I saw some figures of around £8000 for someone to do it to a reasonable spec.

[GreatGranny]

Belle427 said:

Make a huge difference no matter what people tell you about estates etc being the better option.
We have an older T5 Lwb and it’s fantastic to load for family holidays.
Personally knowing the Vw scene I’d avoid them and look at something like the above which represents much better value for money.
We thought about converting our T5 for camping and I almost choked when I saw some figures of around £8000 for someone to do it to a reasonable spec.

What was the £8k for?

For that I'm presuming no pop up roof.

[Belle427]

GreatGranny said:

Belle427 said:

Make a huge difference no matter what people tell you about estates etc being the better option.
We have an older T5 Lwb and it’s fantastic to load for family holidays.
Personally knowing the Vw scene I’d avoid them and look at something like the above which represents much better value for money.
We thought about converting our T5 for camping and I almost choked when I saw some figures of around £8000 for someone to do it to a reasonable spec.

What was the £8k for?

For that I'm presuming no pop up roof.

Pop up roof but not the best one.
Rock n roll bed.
Kitchen with fridge and cooker.
Front swivel seats.
Maybe a few other small things.

[djsmith74]

chrisdk said:

Feel like this should be a more common question but maybe I’m the outlier here….

I’ve decided we need a family van as:
1) holiday trips with the parents / in-laws are more common (so need to seat 4 adults plus 2 children),
2) as a four, we’re fans of a camping / cycling weekend (but have a tent so not looking for a camper)
3) frequently end up transporting various school children round after football matches, birthday parties etc.

Ideally what I’d like is a “proper” six seater V70 (current car) with similar luggage space so this seems to rule out the Galaxies / XC90 etc of this world (sceptical as to how much luggage space they offer once six up ?).

So what do you pick ? Ideally keep it below £25k.

Obvious choice seems a Toyota Alphard ? Bit oddball but seems to tick all the boxes ? Decent top spec for £15k ? I prefer these over the Nissan / other JDM equivalents.

The dream purchase would be a Caravelle but not sure what an extra £25k gets me over the Alphard (seems half decent ones start around £40k). The nature of short trips round town puts me off the diesels on offer. Resale value is a positive factor but concerned the scene tax will hold over the next 3-5 years of ownership in current economy.

R Class is probably too small ? Unless the LWB version can do the 6 plus luggage comfortably ? Maybe roof box and bike rack on the back ?

Other options like Peugeot Traveller spring to mind ? But seem like they fall between the Alphard and Caravelle options ? More expensive than one but not as nice a package as the other ?

MPG not really a consideration and I’m no badge snob (also thinking Dacha Jogger ?), more about the application for the money more than anything.

Cheers.

Have a look at this post over in the Camping section, where I responded with my views on Alphard ownership as I have owned one for the last year or so. It may answer any queries that you have regarding these vehicles, and I am happy to answer any more questions that you have:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[HelldogBE]

ED209 said:

I have a V6 Vito and it doesn’t have air suspension, just conventional springs. It’s a 122 cdi (224hp) the earlier ones were 120 cdi (204 hp).

With a mild remap it’s hilarious in the mid range due to the torque available.

You can spec a Vito from 20k to over 60k

[Bannock]

The answer is...Ssangyong Turismo.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208028...

There you go, that should sort out whether the OP is a badge snob or not...

(Only kidding, OP.)

[LimaDelta]

Worth considering - van derived MPVs are pretty terrible from a NVH perspective. Worth trying one perhaps before committing, especially coming from a nice quiet, comfortable Volvo.

[Normodog]

Managed to fit a vfr800 in my stepwgn last night, surprisingly spacious for the footprint.