Which RWD sports car?
Discussion
A few weeks ago, a little bit of lady luck came dancing into town and I am now in a position to look for some fun motoring.
I have a company car as a daily driver, which fulfils all commuting needs, etc.
I would like a fun car for the weekends and sunny days. It's purely a toy - practicality is pretty much a non-consideration - I won't be taking it on European jaunts or trying to fit a family in it. I also have a garage at home in which to store this car.
My brief to myself therefore is thus:
2 seater
Convertible
RWD
Manual gearbox
Most important - fun. I am not particularly fussed about going fast - I don't need 500bhp from a dirty great V8. What floats my boat is lightweight, great handling and a great driving experience.
I do not expect to make a profit short or long term from this car, but one of my concerns is the fact that this is my first 'second' car and I'm not exactly sure how much time I'm going to have to use it. I don't want to have a chunk of money tied up in something gathering dust, so a bonus point for the final choice would be maintaining it's value so if I need to get out of it, I can with minimal loss.
Budget - Up to £10k
I have a shortlist but I'm looking for guidance, hopefully from owners on here, as to pitfalls of these cars - plus ideas for alternatives that I may have missed
Mazda MX5
The quintessential solution to my problem. I think I can get any version, including a mk4 for my budget.
I am looking closer at Mk2's on the basis that Mk1s seem to be quite rare and difficult to find now, I think Mk3's are ugly and Mk4 sees my budget being the starting point in terms of cost and I'd rather have a good Mk2 than a leggy Mk4.
Mk2s seem good value but I'm concerned on a couple of things:
1. Will I fit?
I'm 6' 3" with a 34" inside leg so whilst I'm not a giant, I'm not a small person. I've driven a Mk1 briefly; about 25 years ago and I seem to remember fitting in enough to drive it. Are Mk2's similar in terms of inside space?
2. Rust
This seems to be the perennial problem with any MX5. I've seen one that has had a lot of recent resto work done on sills and chassis legs, but it's stronger money (c. £5k) than other choices on the market (Seems to be £2-£4k)
I don't mind paying extra for something I know is solid, but are there experts who can inspect a vehicle that people recommend? Or experts from which to purchase from?
Don't want to buy something that needs thousands spending on it in a few months' time.
Porsche Boxster
If money were no object, this would be no debate and I'd buy a Boxster. It fits what I want perfectly.
However, there's a lot of choice in terms of iterations and spec so finding a good one seems to be a bit of a minefield.
I would assume that buying the best you can afford is the key here. In my head I had a 987 as being attainable, I would be fine with a 2.7, but £10k seems to be around the entry point for these cars and I see a lot of people recommending a 987.2 as the optimum choice?
I know a little about IMS and bore-scoring, but not much. How does one avoid these issues?
Are these cars generally reliable? What else is there to look out for? Again, any specialist recommendations?
BMW Z4
I've been looking at E89 Z4s, which on the surface appear to be a compromise between the value of an MX5 and the 'meaty-ness' of a Boxster.
My concern is whether they're special enough - particularly in terms of my number 1 consideration - fun.
Compared to my other options, would it be fun? If not, can they be modified (relatively cheaply) to be more fun?
Rightly or wrongly - I see a Z4 as an SLK/Audi TT rival than a Boxster rival, which cools my interest. I would gladly be corrected if experienced owners can tell me different?
Honda S2000
My budget sees me in the right sort of range for a high-ish mile car.
In terms of fun and handling - this is right on the money and I've always liked the look of them. Honda reliability also appeals.
Concern here again is rust/general condition - any specialist recommendations or advice on what to look for?
Caterham 7 / Lotus Elise / Vauxhall VX220
All appealing, but I think out of price range?
TVR Chimaera
The Russian Roulette option
Love the prospect of a V8 and the brawn of this car.
Massively scared about reliability and finding a good one. Are good ones simply out of the price range? I don't need something concours, but it needs to be solid.
It seems a bit of a minefield and, frankly, if I'm constantly going to be fixing niggles to keep it running right so I can enjoy it, this won't be for me.
Any other suggestions/advice/experiences? I know this is a popular topic!
I have a company car as a daily driver, which fulfils all commuting needs, etc.
I would like a fun car for the weekends and sunny days. It's purely a toy - practicality is pretty much a non-consideration - I won't be taking it on European jaunts or trying to fit a family in it. I also have a garage at home in which to store this car.
My brief to myself therefore is thus:
2 seater
Convertible
RWD
Manual gearbox
Most important - fun. I am not particularly fussed about going fast - I don't need 500bhp from a dirty great V8. What floats my boat is lightweight, great handling and a great driving experience.
I do not expect to make a profit short or long term from this car, but one of my concerns is the fact that this is my first 'second' car and I'm not exactly sure how much time I'm going to have to use it. I don't want to have a chunk of money tied up in something gathering dust, so a bonus point for the final choice would be maintaining it's value so if I need to get out of it, I can with minimal loss.
Budget - Up to £10k
I have a shortlist but I'm looking for guidance, hopefully from owners on here, as to pitfalls of these cars - plus ideas for alternatives that I may have missed
Mazda MX5
The quintessential solution to my problem. I think I can get any version, including a mk4 for my budget.
I am looking closer at Mk2's on the basis that Mk1s seem to be quite rare and difficult to find now, I think Mk3's are ugly and Mk4 sees my budget being the starting point in terms of cost and I'd rather have a good Mk2 than a leggy Mk4.
Mk2s seem good value but I'm concerned on a couple of things:
1. Will I fit?
I'm 6' 3" with a 34" inside leg so whilst I'm not a giant, I'm not a small person. I've driven a Mk1 briefly; about 25 years ago and I seem to remember fitting in enough to drive it. Are Mk2's similar in terms of inside space?
2. Rust
This seems to be the perennial problem with any MX5. I've seen one that has had a lot of recent resto work done on sills and chassis legs, but it's stronger money (c. £5k) than other choices on the market (Seems to be £2-£4k)
I don't mind paying extra for something I know is solid, but are there experts who can inspect a vehicle that people recommend? Or experts from which to purchase from?
Don't want to buy something that needs thousands spending on it in a few months' time.
Porsche Boxster
If money were no object, this would be no debate and I'd buy a Boxster. It fits what I want perfectly.
However, there's a lot of choice in terms of iterations and spec so finding a good one seems to be a bit of a minefield.
I would assume that buying the best you can afford is the key here. In my head I had a 987 as being attainable, I would be fine with a 2.7, but £10k seems to be around the entry point for these cars and I see a lot of people recommending a 987.2 as the optimum choice?
I know a little about IMS and bore-scoring, but not much. How does one avoid these issues?
Are these cars generally reliable? What else is there to look out for? Again, any specialist recommendations?
BMW Z4
I've been looking at E89 Z4s, which on the surface appear to be a compromise between the value of an MX5 and the 'meaty-ness' of a Boxster.
My concern is whether they're special enough - particularly in terms of my number 1 consideration - fun.
Compared to my other options, would it be fun? If not, can they be modified (relatively cheaply) to be more fun?
Rightly or wrongly - I see a Z4 as an SLK/Audi TT rival than a Boxster rival, which cools my interest. I would gladly be corrected if experienced owners can tell me different?
Honda S2000
My budget sees me in the right sort of range for a high-ish mile car.
In terms of fun and handling - this is right on the money and I've always liked the look of them. Honda reliability also appeals.
Concern here again is rust/general condition - any specialist recommendations or advice on what to look for?
Caterham 7 / Lotus Elise / Vauxhall VX220
All appealing, but I think out of price range?
TVR Chimaera
The Russian Roulette option
Love the prospect of a V8 and the brawn of this car.
Massively scared about reliability and finding a good one. Are good ones simply out of the price range? I don't need something concours, but it needs to be solid.
It seems a bit of a minefield and, frankly, if I'm constantly going to be fixing niggles to keep it running right so I can enjoy it, this won't be for me.
Any other suggestions/advice/experiences? I know this is a popular topic!
Edited by Muzzer79 on Monday 3rd March 11:13
None really to add, except to post I am in the same place - looking for a weekend, rwd, convertible car, that i know I won't use much so don't want to spend a lot of money on it.
Boxster - 987.2 is when they sorted the engine issues, that said you're going to be fine with a 2.7 987 (or 986) that has had maintenace done and probably the IMS bearing changed (many of them have done by now). They don't suffer from bore score owing to non-forged pistons and equally the 3.2 S does not either for that reason, however the 3.4 does.
Mazda MX-5 seems the be the sensible choice. It's not going to cost you in maintenace and you'll get a nice one for your bugdet.... however if going Jap I think I'd prefer the Honda S2000.
In my head it is between the Honda S2000 and a Boxster 2.7 987. I can't think of anyhting else at this price point, I agree with your thoughts on the Z4.
Boxster - 987.2 is when they sorted the engine issues, that said you're going to be fine with a 2.7 987 (or 986) that has had maintenace done and probably the IMS bearing changed (many of them have done by now). They don't suffer from bore score owing to non-forged pistons and equally the 3.2 S does not either for that reason, however the 3.4 does.
Mazda MX-5 seems the be the sensible choice. It's not going to cost you in maintenace and you'll get a nice one for your bugdet.... however if going Jap I think I'd prefer the Honda S2000.
In my head it is between the Honda S2000 and a Boxster 2.7 987. I can't think of anyhting else at this price point, I agree with your thoughts on the Z4.
Nice. Buy now before prices climb again for Spring - or already too late... ?
MX5- I am 6ft and have a Mk1 that is a good fit.
I think 6ft 3in would be annoying.
I drove a S2000 years ago and other than wringing the neck of the engine, I did not gel with it, get the same fun as the MX5
Boxster- there are some beauts out there to be snapped up. The earliest in a 2.5 config would be where I would look
Caterham 7 - Yes. I would 100% be look to that as fun spannering it too and small for a garage fit. Aain I sat in one years ago and fitted a treat. 6ft3in? is that the SV needed? Are they in budget?
The Chim? Are the ones that are worth owning in price range?
MX5- I am 6ft and have a Mk1 that is a good fit.
I think 6ft 3in would be annoying.
I drove a S2000 years ago and other than wringing the neck of the engine, I did not gel with it, get the same fun as the MX5
Boxster- there are some beauts out there to be snapped up. The earliest in a 2.5 config would be where I would look
Caterham 7 - Yes. I would 100% be look to that as fun spannering it too and small for a garage fit. Aain I sat in one years ago and fitted a treat. 6ft3in? is that the SV needed? Are they in budget?
The Chim? Are the ones that are worth owning in price range?
You'll fit in a MX5 no issues, i have a similar build and i've had a NB with the standard seats and one with a bucket seat, plenty of room although you will want a dished steering wheel to give you more knee room.
If you want simple cheap fun find an NB with an LSD and you will love it.
If you want simple cheap fun find an NB with an LSD and you will love it.
Same height, same inside leg, tried the E89, not a chance.
Other than that I can't really help. Much as I'd like something small and light I've given up on smaller sports cars because of the size thing, but I need to be able to do reasonably long journeys in it, so probably going to end up with an SL, which misses most of your criteria.
Other than that I can't really help. Much as I'd like something small and light I've given up on smaller sports cars because of the size thing, but I need to be able to do reasonably long journeys in it, so probably going to end up with an SL, which misses most of your criteria.
You will struggle to get a Chim for that money but they don't reach great money at auctions.
Maybe keep an eye on this.
https://auctions.wbandsons.com/auction/lot/6-1996-...
You do need to be able to work on your own cars though if you own a TVR in my opinion.
Not difficult to work on though.
Maybe keep an eye on this.
https://auctions.wbandsons.com/auction/lot/6-1996-...
You do need to be able to work on your own cars though if you own a TVR in my opinion.
Not difficult to work on though.
Think of an S2000 as an MX5 with a quirky dash and an extra 3000 rpm. If those things appeal, it’s the answer.
Relatively easy to buy a good one. Usual used car checks apply; if it looks good, sounds good and drives good it probably is good. Rust is the killer, but it’s visible. Rear of the sills, rear arches and boot floor. Anything visible, walk away.
They’re fine with 100k+ miles if looked after. Join the UK Facebook forums for owners selling cars.
Pre 06 cars will be cheapest road tax; post March 06 cars are the silly bracket. 04/05 cars carry a premium because they get a few developments and the cheaper tax. Don’t get hung up on year though; they’re all basically the same and condition is king.
On the 2.7 Boxster, I believe they’re only 5 speed (if that matters) and again that they can be caught by the £700+ tax bracket.
Relatively easy to buy a good one. Usual used car checks apply; if it looks good, sounds good and drives good it probably is good. Rust is the killer, but it’s visible. Rear of the sills, rear arches and boot floor. Anything visible, walk away.
They’re fine with 100k+ miles if looked after. Join the UK Facebook forums for owners selling cars.
Pre 06 cars will be cheapest road tax; post March 06 cars are the silly bracket. 04/05 cars carry a premium because they get a few developments and the cheaper tax. Don’t get hung up on year though; they’re all basically the same and condition is king.
On the 2.7 Boxster, I believe they’re only 5 speed (if that matters) and again that they can be caught by the £700+ tax bracket.
Edited by griffter on Tuesday 4th March 07:41
Interesting choices.
- You’re too tall for the S2000.
- The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
- The Z4 is a good pick, although I prefer the SLK 350 (R172)
- Boxster would be a good shout. Try and find a 987 3.2S from late 2005 to 2006, they have the larger IMS bearing and are not prone to borescore like the 3.4. The 2.7 is also good and don’t disregard the TIPs, they’re good.
- I’m not a fan of old TVRs so no comment.
Out of left field,
Fiat 124 Spider
370z Roadster
Audi TTS
Leggy 911 (996) including TIPs
You’re challenge is going to be your height - the Germans will cope, the Vauxhall will be a challenge to get in and out of, and the japs will be tight.
- You’re too tall for the S2000.
- The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
- The Z4 is a good pick, although I prefer the SLK 350 (R172)
- Boxster would be a good shout. Try and find a 987 3.2S from late 2005 to 2006, they have the larger IMS bearing and are not prone to borescore like the 3.4. The 2.7 is also good and don’t disregard the TIPs, they’re good.
- I’m not a fan of old TVRs so no comment.
Out of left field,
Fiat 124 Spider
370z Roadster
Audi TTS
Leggy 911 (996) including TIPs
You’re challenge is going to be your height - the Germans will cope, the Vauxhall will be a challenge to get in and out of, and the japs will be tight.
It's a shame you don't like the NC. As mentioned above, a NC 2.0 Sport with Factory LSD + Some BBR Fettling would be a solid choice. Can all probably be done within budget too.
In terms of Boxster - 987 2.7's don't suffer from bore scoring issues the 3.4 has, and generally don't suffer from IMS issues. In all honesty, any 986 / 987 that have lasted this long would either have had them replaced by now or it's been so long that it's probably no longer an issue. If it was going to happen it would have happened already.
The 986's will have plenty of really good ones available for your budget. I wouldn't shy away from high mileage ones either. Best to have a look at the history and the overall spec of the car. Another piece of advice would be to go out and drive plenty of them. If you test drive 1 and it doesn't seem to be for you, it doesn't mean that a 986 isn't for you, but just that one you test drove isn't for you.
In terms of Boxster - 987 2.7's don't suffer from bore scoring issues the 3.4 has, and generally don't suffer from IMS issues. In all honesty, any 986 / 987 that have lasted this long would either have had them replaced by now or it's been so long that it's probably no longer an issue. If it was going to happen it would have happened already.
The 986's will have plenty of really good ones available for your budget. I wouldn't shy away from high mileage ones either. Best to have a look at the history and the overall spec of the car. Another piece of advice would be to go out and drive plenty of them. If you test drive 1 and it doesn't seem to be for you, it doesn't mean that a 986 isn't for you, but just that one you test drove isn't for you.
I ran a Chimaera as an everyday car for 2 years with only two breakdowns (a burst radiator - radiators are from a Range Rover) and also a failed coil (it was a new coil fitted to replace original which was causing a misfire).
The main issues will be chassis rot - the outriggers which run under the sills are rust prone, but many have had these done.
It was relatively easy to work on and DIY, with plenty of helpful owners and specialists.
The main issues will be chassis rot - the outriggers which run under the sills are rust prone, but many have had these done.
It was relatively easy to work on and DIY, with plenty of helpful owners and specialists.
Thank you for all the responses - very appreciated.
Regarding MX5's
The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
But it's not offensive.........perhaps I should have a go in one.
Are these rust magnets like the NA and NB?
Regarding MX5's
maz8062 said:
The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
Jayho said:
It's a shame you don't like the NC. As mentioned above, a NC 2.0 Sport with Factory LSD + Some BBR Fettling would be a solid choice. Can all probably be done within budget too.
I have to confess that I haven't driven an NC and had excluded it on the basis of looks - I don't like the front. But it's not offensive.........perhaps I should have a go in one.
Are these rust magnets like the NA and NB?
Muzzer79 said:
Thank you for all the responses - very appreciated.
Regarding MX5's
The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
But it's not offensive.........perhaps I should have a go in one.
Are these rust magnets like the NA and NB?
They do succumb to rust like the NA and NB's, but probably no more so than a S2000. Difference between the 2 is that you're not paying the Honda Tax and there's more of them to choose from. The NC 3.75 might be the one to go for as (IMO) they look a bit more aggressive up front.Regarding MX5's
maz8062 said:
The NB is a bit meh, I’d recommend an NC with BBR mods. The NC is very similar to the S2000 only slower and it needs lowering springs, so a BBR 180 or 200 would be awesome.
Jayho said:
It's a shame you don't like the NC. As mentioned above, a NC 2.0 Sport with Factory LSD + Some BBR Fettling would be a solid choice. Can all probably be done within budget too.
I have to confess that I haven't driven an NC and had excluded it on the basis of looks - I don't like the front. But it's not offensive.........perhaps I should have a go in one.
Are these rust magnets like the NA and NB?
They are also quite sensitive to suspension / geo set up. Proper wheel alignment is a must on these, especially if they've been fettled with suspension wise.
I do feel if I were ever to get rid of the Boxster S as a toy it would be replaced by either a 911 or a NC with the BBR225 kit fitted.
Muzzer79 said:
BMW Z4
I've been looking at E89 Z4s, which on the surface appear to be a compromise between the value of an MX5 and the 'meaty-ness' of a Boxster.
My concern is whether they're special enough - particularly in terms of my number 1 consideration - fun.
Compared to my other options, would it be fun? If not, can they be modified (relatively cheaply) to be more fun?
Rightly or wrongly - I see a Z4 as an SLK/Audi TT rival than a Boxster rival, which cools my interest. I would gladly be corrected if experienced owners can tell me different?
I have one, and that's a pretty good assessment of them.I've been looking at E89 Z4s, which on the surface appear to be a compromise between the value of an MX5 and the 'meaty-ness' of a Boxster.
My concern is whether they're special enough - particularly in terms of my number 1 consideration - fun.
Compared to my other options, would it be fun? If not, can they be modified (relatively cheaply) to be more fun?
Rightly or wrongly - I see a Z4 as an SLK/Audi TT rival than a Boxster rival, which cools my interest. I would gladly be corrected if experienced owners can tell me different?
They're not a sports car in the way an MX5 or Boxster is.
The 35i is quick enough, especially once you turn the wick up on it, but yeah, they're more an SLK equivalent.
But maybe consider the previous generation E85 in one of the larger engined variants.
I've had a 987 3.2S for the last 18 months or so and love it. Quick but not too quick so you can actually rev it out a bit. Lots of fun on the back roads and also excellent at cruising on the motorway.
Porsche Owners Club is also excellent, lots of regular meets and drive outs.
if you're local to Nottingham you can take mine out for a bit.
Porsche Owners Club is also excellent, lots of regular meets and drive outs.
if you're local to Nottingham you can take mine out for a bit.
you could probably squeeze yourself into an ND with higher miles e.g. :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135595890940?_skw=mx5+2...
a lot of fun.
I personally own an s2k and have kept it for over 5 years, not planning to sell either. It's been an epic car, longest I've owned a car in general.
I did have a z4 coupe 3.0 before and that left me a bit cold, beautiful looking thing tho.
had a mk1 mx5 too and that was good fun but s2k just feels better with more power, revs etc. Basically an mx5+1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135595890940?_skw=mx5+2...
a lot of fun.
I personally own an s2k and have kept it for over 5 years, not planning to sell either. It's been an epic car, longest I've owned a car in general.
I did have a z4 coupe 3.0 before and that left me a bit cold, beautiful looking thing tho.
had a mk1 mx5 too and that was good fun but s2k just feels better with more power, revs etc. Basically an mx5+1
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