PHEV reliability?

[RizzoTheRat]

I test drove a BMW X1 xDrive25e other other day which has a 125 bhp 1500cc 3 cylinder and a 95 bhp electric motor, also available as the 30e with the same engine but a 175 bhp electric. Comfortable and decent to drive, with a nice interior, but how reliable is that drive train going to be be over the ten years or so that I'd probably keep it for?

The RAV4's about the same price and feels a bit more offroadery to drive, but is a very tempting alternative due to their decades of experience making hybrids meaning it's probably going be less hassle over the course of 10 years or so.

Looking at an NX450h+ tomorrow for a combination of (percieved?) reliability and luxury, but it's probably about 15% more expensive.

[ZX10R NIN]

To be honest most phev's are reliable like any car you can get a Friday car in most cases if you look after (as in annual servicing rather than long service intervals) your car it'll look after you.

[Mr Squarekins]

You know that BMW has been doing 3 cyl hybrids since 2014 right? 10+ years of experience now.

Best to just buy what you liked more. Nothing really to choose in terms of reliability in the mainstream I think.

[bimsb6]

The prius is now 28yrs old

[Yahonza]

bimsb6 said:

The prius is now 28yrs old

The 28 year old Prius isn't a PHEV though. Very reliable but needs the battery replaced every 10 years or so.
The earliest BMW PHEV hybrid would be the i8, which is also a 3 cylinder / big battery combo. It was really clever stuff from BMW although they have regressed a bit - mostly due to the pressure of regulations and pandering to new markets.

[Pica-Pica]

RizzoTheRat said:

… “Looking at an NX450h+ tomorrow for a combination of (percieved?) reliability and luxury, but it's probably about 15% more expensive.” ...

I don’t think reliability is ‘perceived’ - it would be measurable.

[Snow and Rocks]

Toyota or Lexus hybrid everytime for long term hassle free ownership. Even ignoring the maintenance and durability benefits of the incredibly well engineered drivetrain which eliminates many of the common failure and maintenance points, the 10 year warranty says a lot.

That aside, the Rav4 is a great all rounder - ours regularly does 50+ mpg even driven hard on long trips when we don't bother plugging it in. Pretty impressive for a 2 tonne 4x4 with over 300bhp.

[blank]

If you're concerned about reliability go with the Toyota/Lexus and get it main dealer serviced every year to get another year of warranty added on.

The RAV4 PHEV is a decent car. The CVT-like transmission feels a bit odd when the engine is running but it works well.

[bimsb6]

Yahonza said:

bimsb6 said:

The prius is now 28yrs old

The 28 year old Prius isn't a PHEV though. Very reliable but needs the battery replaced every 10 years or so.
The earliest BMW PHEV hybrid would be the i8, which is also a 3 cylinder / big battery combo. It was really clever stuff from BMW although they have regressed a bit - mostly due to the pressure of regulations and pandering to new markets.

Yes you’re correct .Doh

[RizzoTheRat]

blank said:

The RAV4 PHEV is a decent car. The CVT-like transmission feels a bit odd when the engine is running but it works well.

Yeah had a test drive of that the same day and liked it. A bit more room inside and better fuel economy, but felt a bit more basic inside and possibly a bit noisier. It definitely felt a bit more offroader compared to the X1 (not necessarily a problem, I learned to drive in a 110).

Mr Squarekins said:

You know that BMW has been doing 3 cyl hybrids since 2014 right? 10+ years of experience now.

Actually I didn't, I assume from above that was i8? When did they start doing more mainstream ones?

[Mr Squarekins]

i8 ran for 6 years. i3 similar. Other models I believe around 2016 onwards. 3 series 'e' , 2 series models too, those 3 cyl I think.

[kiethton]

We're 3 years into a X5 45e, not put a wheel wrong in the 23k miles we've done - like you intend to hold it for 10 years/80-100k miles

[Snow and Rocks]

Worth pointing out that the Rav4 has ~240bhp in pure EV mode so drives properly without needing to use any petrol at all - some of the BMWs and Volvos I looked at were sub 100 bhp which in a heavy SUV gives a power to weight ratio worse than a 2cv!

[RizzoTheRat]

That's why I think the 30e is probably a better bet than the 25e, much more usable in ev mode. But not as much EV poweras the RAV4 apparently

[plfrench]

Snow and Rocks said:

Worth pointing out that the Rav4 has ~240bhp in pure EV mode so drives properly without needing to use any petrol at all - some of the BMWs and Volvos I looked at were sub 100 bhp which in a heavy SUV gives a power to weight ratio worse than a 2cv!

Toyota suggest the electric motor is 134kW or 180hp. Is there a different version?

[Snow and Rocks]

plfrench said:

Toyota suggest the electric motor is 134kW or 180hp. Is there a different version?

This suggests a total EV power output of ~234 bhp. Were you definitely looking at the PHEV version - the normal hybrids are less powerful.

Edited by Snow and Rocks on Sunday 4th May 21:34

Edited by Snow and Rocks on Sunday 4th May 21:34

[Jimbo.]

Snow and Rocks said:

Worth pointing out that the Rav4 has ~240bhp in pure EV mode so drives properly without needing to use any petrol at all - some of the BMWs and Volvos I looked at were sub 100 bhp which in a heavy SUV gives a power to weight ratio worse than a 2cv!

My PHEV has c. 90bhp in EV mode, and I _think_ 350Nm of torque. For everyday driving, it’s adequate. The biggest slow-down is the traffic in front. If you need to get a move on, the car will bring the ICE in.

[georgeyboy12345]

PHEVs are actually more reliable than their full ICE or even hybrid counterparts, due to the fact that there is much less demand on the least reliable part of the drivetrain (the engine).

For example, my car has just over 100k on the clock, yet the engine hasn’t even been on for over 50,000 of those.

[Hub]

georgeyboy12345 said:

PHEVs are actually more reliable than their full ICE or even hybrid counterparts, due to the fact that there is much less demand on the least reliable part of the drivetrain (the engine).

For example, my car has just over 100k on the clock, yet the engine hasn’t even been on for over 50,000 of those.

I'm not sure that follows? Electrics aren't always reliable, and if the hybrid system or battery does fail it is going to be expensive. Plus engines can kick in suddenly when needed and not warmed up, so potentially more wear?

I do wish that odometers would give you a figure for engine and battery mileage separately, I don't think they do?

[Jimbo.]

Hub said:

georgeyboy12345 said:

PHEVs are actually more reliable than their full ICE or even hybrid counterparts, due to the fact that there is much less demand on the least reliable part of the drivetrain (the engine).

For example, my car has just over 100k on the clock, yet the engine hasn’t even been on for over 50,000 of those.

I'm not sure that follows? Electrics aren't always reliable, and if the hybrid system or battery does fail it is going to be expensive. Plus engines can kick in suddenly when needed and not warmed up, so potentially more wear?

I do wish that odometers would give you a figure for engine and battery mileage separately, I don't think they do?

The engine starting/engine warm thing isn’t so much of an issue: the EV system is still taking a good chunk of the load, engine tech/quality/materials is is way better than it was years ago, and same for the oil. The hot/cold thermal shock testing ICEs go through is way beyond the typical PHEV use pattern!