Suggestions for next car

[mrnoisy78]

Thinking about chopping in my current car for something different, and interested in suggestions.
For the last few years I had a 400+ bhp widetrack Impreza STI for a weekend toy and a 2.0 Fiesta ST.
Wife and I had a baby, thought it's time for something less time consuming (I did a fair bit of the servicing on both myself), more grown up and "sensible" but still fun, so sold both and bought a 2013 E92 M3 with DCT and a bunch of other extras.

6 months on I'm questioning whether I bought the right car.
The M is a far better looking car for sure; the handling and grip in the dry are without a doubt better; wet I'm less inclined to test the limits. The ride is excellent and the cabin much more civilised than the Ford or Subaru's were (but not as nice as the one in the Audi RS5). Relentless pull of the engine at the top end is ludicrous as well.

3 issues I've got with the car:
1. It's not a manual - my fault for not trying the manual (everyone said "go DCT it's amazing"), but I just feel far less connected to the car.
2. The gearing for the DCT seems wrong to me; it's almost like acceleration isn't quite quick enough - possibly because gears aren't long enough(?) - which makes it a pain in the ass when you're overtaking and you need to shift down or up to get the revs up or hit the limiter when it feels like there's more to come. I have far less confidence overtaking than I did in the Subaru as a result, even when I'm using the top of the rev range.
With or without DCT, the M3 would have been crucified by my old Impreza, and wouldn't have clawed back until nearly into three figures, as my mate with a 400bhp Evo aptly demonstrated to my embarrassment when we went to Thruxton.
Some of this I think is simply down to the fact that the car's RWD and is always going to struggle more to find traction than a 4WD equivalent.
3. Small but annoying issue - every time I start the car it's in DriveLogic level 2 and you can't change or even map this it out apparently.
You also can't select the most sport plus power setting by default either, you need to press another button.
Now sure, sometimes I want to select a less aggressive mode - perhaps if it's raining or icy then I may want the car to be miss daisy-like in its characteristics, but for the 99% of other times I drive it I want to start the car and go, and for it to remember what I did last time. It doesn't seem like a difficult ask.

But...far simpler than this - I'm finding it less fun to drive than the Subaru and doesn't make me smile nearly as much.

In the last 3 days I've test driven an M4 DCT (better ride than the E92 but power delivery actually feels like it's being held back, even in MDM and everything in sport plus, like it needs a remap), a Golf R (total disappointment, felt sluggish, and the build quality in the cabin didn't reflect the price tag for me), and the new Civic Type R.
Now, I want to say I hated the Type R because the questionable bodykit on it is more gharish than any Impreza (bar maybe the old S201 edition ), the suspension was too hard and it's annoying that you can't set the torque map and suspension settings on the car separately because R+ is too hard for an average UK road.
But despite all of that, I loved driving it because it felt honest, silly fast and exciting when you used the accelerator in earnest.

I don't feel I can justify spending 2012 M3 money on it though, and at 37 I have to say looks wise it feels a bit too boy racer even by my standards!

Part of me is wondering whether I'm remembering my old car a little too fondly, so rambling aside....what would people recommend for something that has a comfortable ride, decent cabin (doesn't have to be Audi standard but I'd prefer it was better than Ford) that will still keep a grin on your face and launch you into the horizon? (ideally without having cabin drone).
Budget is approx. £30k - after that it's PCP time.
Any sensible suggestions on alternatives? Is a manual E92 M3 worth considering?

[mrnoisy78]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys.
I was considering the GTR but as stated may be a bit much to live with everyday which was one of the reasons I got rid of the Impreza.

The supercharging option of my M3 is a no really as:
a) It'll void the manufacturer warranty (and I know the bearings have a tendency to go so I don't want to chance it as I can't afford a new M3 engine!)
b) The mpg will be atrociously bad and
c) Modding an M car costs way more than it should do because of the marque association

The car is only 3 years old with 20000 miles, and the whole point of buying was to get something newer, reliable and that required less maintenance.

The way I'm looking at the moment, I have 3 options:
1) Look at C63 AMG's (previously avoided due to mpg but who knows maybe it'll deliver on the criteria)
2) Trade / sell the M and buy a civic type r. I'm tempted due to how fun it was but I'm also keen to see whether they'll bring out a revised version later this year / next year with the styling a little more toned down.
It's also a whole heap of cash to throw down on a Honda when I know probably half of it will have gone in depreciation within 2 years.
3) Sell the M, buy an Impreza / Evo / Focus RS Mk2, forge it, buy a set of decent shocks etc to make it easier to live with. and keep the remaining £10-15k I'll have leftover.

So will try and test a C63 in the next few weeks and see how I get on. Tempted to try an RS5 again, or maybe even a TTRS as the latter is actually available with a manual.

[mrnoisy78]

PlayFair said:

Depends what you want from the car - is it normal daily driver that gets 5+ trackdays a year?

why not an Evo 10? has the comforts of a 'modern car' so can carry the little one round, yet will give you that 4wd performance from the Scooby? - they can be easily tuned to 400bhp and a very capable car - they look fantastic and is a lot more special that a M3 (IMO) it will also give you your fix of Japanese metal - unlike the questionable looks of the new CTR.

Not a fan of how the Evo X looks; the 8 or 9 I love the looks but they're mega money now since Mitsi announced they were stopping making them.
Ideal scenario is the car will be a daily driver that I could go for a blast in or take it to the track if the mood took me(but the latter is unlikely to be a regular thing).

Did laugh at the C63 comment above re killing me; I'm sure Clarkson said that once too right?
What I do like is the prospect of just having comfort or sport suspension and then go - none of this M button / drive logic / power stuff which a mate says he thinks is far better than the BMW.

Megane is out I wouldn't buy another French car due to past reliability issues, and I just hear too many horror stories.

I know the GTR and the C63 both also have an auto box and is what made me ask myself whether I should look for an E92 manual instead, it may just be a gearing thing that's holding it back but don't think that's it - I drove the M4 DCT last weekend and it really did nothing for me; although I have to say I don't think it felt notably faster than mine, more so just a little - think that's how they're mapped. A mate with an M4 cab who had a CS400 cosworth Impreza before said he feels the same. Both of us bought the cars as something more "grown up" and both of us are missing the fun of the Impreza that the BMW's don't quite seem to deliver which is sad as they are very good cars in the main.

Other thing that worries me about GTR is servicing as they supposedly eat tyres and brakes at an alarming rate from what I read, but it's bloody tempting to buy one before the kid grows up and spends all my money
Well thanks guys - I will definitely give a GTR and a C63 a try; maybe an Evo 9 if I can find one that isn't a private sale....but I know what I'll end up doing if I buy that haha.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:02

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:06

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:17

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:19

[mrnoisy78]

Dubmaster77 said:

M2?

Would need another £20k mate! Even the salesman admitted they were overpriced and said in his view an M4 or 3 represented better value for money but just don't know.
Certainly at this point it's out of financial range and the PCP deal would he daft I'm sure.

I wouldn't mind trying the Focus RS or new Mustang but they're like rocking horse doo doo in the Thames Valley area; looks like a weekend trip with a few mates might be in order.

[mrnoisy78]

ZX10R NIN said:

A few mates have a GT-R's one went from an RS5 to a GT-R he reckons it costs him £800 more to run year on year.

Also if you get a GT-R & you need to replace the discs then put a set of Alcon discs on they're much more hard wearing with Performance Friction pads.

Or you could get a 4WD C63

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

You see I love the RS5 looks and did test drive one which I enjoyed but at the time I just couldn't justify spending an extra £5-6k on a car that was frequently 3-4 years older and had done 10k plus more miles than a M3 equivalent. That and the carbon buildup they suffer from due to the direct injection.
Maybe I need to go back and have another look at one...

An extra £800 a year is not a huge amount but it's still a fair cost given what Audi's cost already!!
On the C63 side I thought the 4MATIC thing was a myth on these cars - isn't that just wrongly advertised?

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 08:03

[mrnoisy78]

Guys thanks for all of your comments and suggestions.
It's nice to hear some understanding as I've been flamed a bit by the BMW brigade for daring to criticise the car, even though it definitely is still very good in terms of performance and handling it's just missing the mark in terms of engagement and low down straight line speed for me (top end it's more than I'll be able to use 99% of the time).

ZX10R NIN - not a Porsche fan, ideally I'd like at least 4 usable adult seats (yeah I know that would rule out the GTR ) I didn't know the C63 was available in 4MATIC so may have a look thank you.

Tuvra, I've heard the same re the Golf R and tuning box but the interior to me felt very cheap and badly put together, don't think I could see myself parting with the money they're asking for what felt like a huge step down for not much less cash than the M.
Ideally if I'm spending that much money I'd prefer not to mod it, at least not straight away anyway, especially if the car comes with warranty.
I've been that road with my old Subaru and you never see the money back when you come to sell unless it's a very sought after example.
Oh and yeah I need back seats; every now and then I'm expected to carry the baby

Hungrymc - you completely get where I'm coming from, definitely missing the performance and interaction - Civic seemed to offer both, with some torque steer thrown in to add to the fun! I completely agree that the auto boxes, no matter how good they are, just aren't as involving as a manual - I think they're superb in a straight line, but in corners they just annoy me. This is why I wonder whether the Merc would be the same for me, but I'll go and have a look at one - I have a good mate who's a Merc mechanic too so that would keep servicing costs down.

The GTR does look amazing - the interior looks a bit plasticky but I suspect I'd forgive it - but the other thing is I've seen them in the flesh and they're huge cars - I think I'd find myself worrying if having to park it anywhere and leave it, especially when visiting a few mates who live in - let's just say - less friendly areas .
You're also right that the cabin is less important in terms of being plush - it's more the ride that needs to be bearable.

Renrut you're right too - I did want an RS5 but the mega money they wanted plus the tendency to get carbon build-up on a car that can fetch £35k+ for a 2011 plate put me off. It's been so long since I tested one I can't remember if it'll be any quicker than the M feels.
The CTR is tempting but right now I do feel it's too much money and I suspect the inability to separate the settings for the torque map and the suspension in R+ would eventually irritate me; I'm also tempted to wait to see if they do a facelift that addresses some of the more lairy styling.

Megane - I know they get rave reviews, but the badge snob in me is fighting it - maybe I need to go look at one.

I'll keep going and having a look - ultimately I don't want to part with cash, rush and change to something I'll get bored of quickly as I don't have an endless budget. Thanks again for the suggestions and input, all very much appreciated, and good to hear from people who have tested and / or owned these cars.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 10:29

[mrnoisy78]

Blanchimont said:

If you like driving, then there is little else for the money that offers what the Renault does.

Even driving it, I get positive comments about it. A week or so ago, some random bloke came up to me and said "Nice car" and started talking about it. So it does get positive comments, and I've had plenty "Bet daddy bought that" (but that's down to me being young, 22) and a few "You must be paid to much!"
I tend to ignore most of the negative stuff, but as they're not massively common on the roads, they stand out just enough to look cool.

It may have a Renault badge on the front, but who cares? As long as you enjoy it, who cares. Nobody should buy anything, because of fear it may not get approved by other people, both those you know, and those you don't. You like it? Drive it.

Well said mate, I've found the BMW forums a little bit snobbish which has put me off too - like you say, it's about how fun the car is, not the badge. Alright, I'll see what I can dig up
P.S. What's the straight line performance like in terms of overtaking as I'll miss that if it can't go stonking past a line of 2 or 3 cars.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 10:38

[mrnoisy78]

Hungrymc said:

On reflection, all of the cars listed and discussed in this thread are brilliant. CTR, Megane RS, Focus RS, Evo, Subaru, TTRS, GTR, 911, C63, M3 etc.... They're all brilliant cars in there own way and they all offer something far more than a normal car. They're also incredibly different in how they entertain and what compromises they carry.

I decided I wanted to change my 911 back in December last year, and I've only just made the decision and the leap. And this wasn't even for a daily driver. I'm really glad I spent time weighing up the pros and cons of the many options (most of those listed above, plus R8, F-type, XKR, Vantage, Maserati GT) to try and work out what I really wanted from the car. I've ended up with one that only occurred as an idea approx 6 months into the search and having not quite being happy with any of the others I was looking at and trying.

There is an irritating reality that even when spending large amounts of cash, there is no car that does everything, as many of the attributes we want are in conflict with each other. Its really, really important that you try to weigh up which areas you have a very strong need for the car to be strong and which areas you can accept compromise.

From the examples suggested - The Megane is a brilliant car, as fun and engaging as any listed, plus its fun is fairly accessible (as stated, I wouldn't be happy driving a GTR at the pace it needs to be driven to feel like you're working - they're astonishing and brilliant, but only come alive when driven hard which equals insane speeds). I understand your concern about the badge but I don't see a hot Megane having worse image than a Subaru or a Honda, I'd happily drive any.... But the key point is, if this is a need (and you're spending a lot of money so its perfectly reasonable and you need to be happy) then you can rule out quite a few of these cars.

The TTRS is an extremely fast car especially when modded. And with a manual box, you have to work to access it. Its reasonably refined and trimmed. The only downsides I see against your needs are that it is a small 2+2 (not a 4 adult car) and it doesn't really have much "feel", certainly not compared to the Megane for example.

Sorry for the wordy post. The message I'm trying to get across is that you have to be really honest with yourself about what you need and want from the car and what compromises you are prepared to accept (I find this hard as the generic answer I give myself is 500hp and rwd - and it didn't mater how many of these I test drove and felt a bit disappointed by, I kept thinking that it is what I wanted - because I'm a petrol head you see). You may well find that nothing fits the bill perfectly and then you have to start making more compromises (and may well come back to the M3). I think this is really hard to do for us petrol heads as we find something to like in all of these interesting cars. Its even harder when we're having to make compromises towards practicality or cost of ownership or image when these things don't fit with the "drivers car" thing that we all really want.

A final thought is to be cautious of chasing more performance unless that's what you really want. A friend has a 280 Cupra with the DSG box, it was as quick in a straight line under 100mph as my 911. But she was sat there with her foot planted to the floor while I'm trying to launch the 911 without frying the clutch, watching the tacho, timing the clutch / slightly stubborn gear changes etc. The 911 was relatively hard work even in a simple, straight drag race. The Cupra isn't hard work but is incredibly competent and a laugh to throw around.... They do the same thing on paper, couldn't be more different in reality.

Thanks for taking the time to write that; it's been refreshing to hear some sensible feedback from so many on this post - people can be very blinkered on some forums.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said above too.

I can remember one of the things I had the Subaru was a lightened flywheel which meant I had to raise the revs before moving off or it bogged down - much like your 911 launch issue - little niggles, but you forgive them because the car brings a smile to your face most of the time.


I drove an RS3 and an RS5 back to back about 18 months ago; the RS3 didn't seem to reflect the speed it's famed for in terms of acceleration and the noise was pretty underwhelming - the RS5 felt far quicker in comparison, but maybe that was because I wanted it to because it was a great looking car - the crackles on the overrun it does also brought a grin to my face lol.
I do suspect I'll be happier in a manual though, so think I'll look at the following if I can find one nearby:
- Focus RS
- TTRS
- Megane RS
- C63 AMG with Performance Pack
- RS5
....and then another go in a CTR if none of the above float my boat.

The GTR looks like a riot but I think if I'm honest with myself it's going to be too much for an everyday car and I'd worry about leaving it anywhere more than any of the others.
Worst case I keep the beemer for a little longer, the good thing is it's still a capable car, but I'm terrible once I get itchy feet with a car, and the misses will shout at me for spending all my spare time on auto trader and pistonheads

Cheers all

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 16:04

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 16:06

[mrnoisy78]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd add a Manual M3 to that list just so you know it wasn't the manual box you missed.

Agreed. Think I'm going to discount the TTRS just because of practicality. I do wonder if the Megane won't quite deliver in terms of straight line speed but will try and have a look at one although the price tag of £18k for a Renault made my eyes water a little!
- Manual E92 M3
- Focus RS
- Megane RS
- C63 AMG with Performance Pack
- RS5
....and then another go in a CTR if none of the above float my boat.

[mrnoisy78]

Adding a tuned RS3 to the list just because I've seen one I quite like the look of...

[mrnoisy78]

jontysafe said:

Why not, as previously posted, go the two car route.

It's what I've done, VAG diseasel for the week and something mental for the weekend.

I had a race with a GTR at 700bhp and my weekend car utterly annihilated it. I mean he didn't even see which way I went. 500bhp+ in 600kgs will do that. On a private road of course. Seriously consider this approach!

I doubt both my cars together are worth what your BMW is worth.

Edited by jontysafe on Wednesday 3rd August 14:44

Lol you didn't read my first post mate - I had a 440bhp Impreza and a Fiesta ST 2.0 before the M3 .
Sadly I barely have time to look after and clean and maintain the one car now let alone two.

Re comments on Audis I've always been drawn to the RS5 because I think it's such a superb looking car in a plethora of very average looking saloons and coupes that have flooded the market of late.
The fun factor is what worries me as - like mentioned - it's a compromise between comfort, fun and so on.
I have my suspicions that anything with an auto box, no matter how slick (and let's face it the BMW box is excellent) will never be quite the same in terms of driver connection as a manual although if memory serves me correctly the Audi's drive mode is significantly better than the BMW's, which I have always found sloppy; for me it only works well in manual mode.
I think Audi have ruined their latest models and they look little different to Mondeos - the latest 3 and 4 series BMW's I rather like but they don't deliver on performance for me.
Good looking and genuinely fast performance cars that aren't afraid to try and kill the driver are becoming more of a rarity nowadays. I'd love a TVR but the reliability and potential money pit they seem to frequently become puts me off or I'd own a T350; a friend's experience with a brand new one was enough to put me off them.

I admit I did genuinely love driving that civic but afterward found myself wondering if I'd feel the same if I'd just jumped in an standard 2.0 2005 Impreza WRX and hammered it...


Always wanted a late RX7 in red but just can't justify one as a daily now - one day though she will be mine!

All else fails I will either stick with the BMW or buy something Jap and mod the hell out of it

Off to do a bunch of test drives at the weekend; taking Friday off and got a pass from the wife...
Focus RS is definitely on the cards, possibly with a side helping of TTRS even though my mates have already started labelling me a hairdresser hehe.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Wednesday 3rd August 23:01

[mrnoisy78]

SturdyHSV said:

Just because it's fun to throw random options in, VXR8?

Few options price wise, could go newer for a 'nicer' interior, although may be a little too close to a F**d materials wise.

Newer could be around £25k

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...

(There's newer options, but may be outside of budget, at which point the 'lot for a Vauxhall' comes in to your head I imagine)

Go older and get one with a supercharger for a reliable 600+bhp well within budget?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...

If slow rear access isn't an issue (that's what she said) then could go even further back and get a modified Monaro, again silly power easily available, this one is 'only' a 5.7 with the little 1.2 litre blower, hence 'only' 550bhp

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...

A friend has a manual E92 M3, I have a Monaro. We've both driven each other's cars. What did I enjoy in the M3? The heated seats and the brakes.

When he drove the Monaro, he actively laughed out loud with joy.

If interior quality is a thing though, then you'll not want to go as far back as the Monaro though I'd wager, it is more utilitarian than luxurious.

You will be involved, comfortable, going rather quickly with an epic soundtrack and the driving modes include whether the really lazy traction control is 'On' or 'Off' via a big button in the middle.

I've seen one of these go hairing through my estate many times in the morning and it always sounds lunatic loud - that 700bhp one you posted looks like Satan's car .
Thing is it's a big heavy car though - I'm thinking straight line speed it will be like a rocket ship, then reach a corner and fall over! Joking aside in real terms that's a bit larger than what I'm after really - I had a 640d as a loaner for 3 weeks and it was like driving a barge I just didn't like it, and as there are width restrictions near my work I'd be taking the long way round in one of these. Would love to drive one though, they sound epic.

[mrnoisy78]

LasseV said:

Yes, it is a fast car, but baby-GTR it is not. He already owned 400hp subaru and i think it is as fast as TT-RS. Those Subarus has been very fast in drag strip/straight line like last 15 years or so. They go 11's and low 12's in quarter mile when modded so i would say they are quite equal in performance. But if OP finds M3 boring, how would TT change that? Problem is still there, boringness.

And saying that any performance-Audi is cheap to service...Not

Well hold on there, consider my main reason for finding the M3 irritating - not necessarily boring - which is the straight line speed low down (top end that car delivers in spades) and managing to get the power down effectively without the tail going out all over the place as the rear struggles for grip .

If the TTRS can deliver Subaru performance low down but with a better ride and less rattles and a nicer cabin I'll give it a go.
I'm driving an RS3 today but am sorely tempted to try a TTRS at some stage now just due to the manual. Just can't understand why Audi never offered the RS3 in manual, I much prefer the shape and it's more practical.

Also got a Focus RS lined up for today; possibly a Megane RS if time as well.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Friday 5th August 06:44

[mrnoisy78]

So today I did a few things:
1. Drove a standard RS3
2. Discounted the RS3 as the ride was horrendously firm which in turn made the car skittish and meant I struggled to get the power down without thinking the car was going to bounce out of a pothole and throw me through a hedge; it's so solid it just bounces all over the shop. It clearly had pace but without switchable dampers I couldn't exploit it. The flappy paddles are also too small compared to the M3 and the manual shifter is the opposite way round to the M3 which really threw me.
Nice looking car but the interior doesn't justify the price tag - just looks like a posher Golf tbh.
3. Drove a Focus RS. Not the fastest car I've driven but plenty of usable power and overtake manoeuvres on the test drive proved it more agile than the Golf R. I reckon there's at least another 30bhp and 40ft/lbs in that engine with a Mountune upgrade, and as they don't typically affect warranty and the RS's tend to hold their value I'm now considering it seriously - plus wow Ford have upped their game in terms of interior - whilst it's not BMW it's certainly 10x better than Fords from the late noughties I've owned or driven. But the boot is TINY.
4. Saw a TTRS.
5. Discounted the TTRS (sorry fans but looks wise and space wise it's just not for me)
6. Whilst I felt it was hugely entertaining and very practical in terms of boot space vs the Focus or M3, the Type R is too much money for the way it looks - and in the case of championship white ones - for the way it's painted - which is shockingly two tone and very cheap looking.
As the little Honda stands to lose probably half its value within 3 years, the M3 remains a stronger financially viable and capable proposal that's also far easier on the eye .
7. I admit the RS5 is the car that's potentially as if not more expensive than the M3, is also auto only and has an engine which could potentially be more of a pain in the ass than the M3's (despite the frequent throttle actuator failures, speed sensor failures and occasional engine bearing failures!) - is still one of my favourite looking cars - so I'm testing one tomorrow - it will be interesting to see how it fares and whether it can deliver on some of the low down grunt I feel is missing in the BMW. If it does it may be what I go for - provided I can get one with a warranty - but If it's not then it's either retain the M or buy the Focus as an investment with a 3 year warranty and wait for the Mountune kit to come out which will likely make it a very quick car.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Saturday 6th August 07:53

[mrnoisy78]

So today I test drove the RS5.
All I can say is what a disappointment.
Big, heavy, hard ride.
Beautiful looking car to behold, cabin is way above the M in terms of quality and finish.
However it's not as quick, doesn't handle anywhere near as well, and therefore didn't fit the bill.
The car almost bounces over undulations in the road due to its weight and having driven it back to back with the M3 having got out after an 80 mile drive the differences were glaringly obvious, it's outclassed by the M3 in nearly every way bar looks.
Tremendously disappointed but not massively surprised.
With all Audis out of the running now this leaves:
- Focus and waiting on Mountune pack
- Civic probably through PCP or
- keep the M.

I was nearly sold on the last; had a great drive down a load of B roads and dual carriageways to Petersfield from Wiltshire today where I was able to open the M3 up and really enjoy it - doesn't really happen day to day.
...And then I joined a dual carriageway on a slip road, and got tailgated by a Saab...despite dropping a few cogs and nailing it couldn't shake him until the speed was silly - and at that point I realised the M car, no matter how good it is on a track, will never really deliver what I want on a road - which is that engagement and torque from lower down the Rev range.
The ride on the BMW is probably the best quality I've ever had in a road car but I think I may have to forego and sacrifice it in exchange for broader enjoyment and low down speed.

Thanks to the poster above re the Mountune kit.
Think that nearly settles it then - with that torque figure think it's focus time, but will try a CTR once more if I can.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Saturday 6th August 22:18

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Saturday 6th August 22:20

[mrnoisy78]

Rawwr said:

I've bored myself to tears enduring endless tedious 'what car' threads on here, where the owner is basically looking for affirmation of his pre-selected choice.

This thread on the other hand is genuinely interesting and I want to see what the OP ends up with

Cheers mate. As a mate with an M4 who used to have CS400 Impreza pointed out, we had both been spoilt with the power and "rawness" of our previous cars, and finding something that's more civilised and "grown up" whilst trying to retain some of the thrills those cars delivered has proven very difficult!
It's also pretty clear from the cars I've tested in the last month that most manufacturers seem to have become almost obsessive with safety and reigning everything in it trying to make everything "refined"; the result is (for me anyway) cars which should feel fast but are truly unexciting to drive.
It's a shame nobody in the industry seems to have realised not everyone wants dull "performance" motoring!

Rawwr said:

FWIW, I reckon you'll end up with a Focus RS. It seems to tick pretty much all of your boxes and it happens to have the benefit of being a Ford with and RS badge and so a good decision in financial terms, too.

It's strange because the Ford had the more grown up cabin, but actually felt sluggish and less exciting than I remember compared to the Civic, which is why I'm going to drive one again before I make a decision.
It also had a ridiculously tiny boot which I was concerned wouldn't take a pram and a few bags which is truly shocking and sadly does have to play a part in the consideration.
The Ford is the more obvious choice for investment but a little birdie tells me they're considering bringing out an RS500 .
Rumour also has it that Mountune shredded the rear diff on one because it couldn't take the torque increases from their maps although I don't know how much truth there is in that (read it on VXR forum so taken with a pinch of salt!)
The Civic apparently hasn't been mapped "officially" although I've seen AMD tuning offering increases of 50-60bhp and 60-80ft/lbs just off a map, which sounds nuts. Gearbox is supposed to be the week point with the CTR. Also seen a thread about an engine wire breaking but would imagine that's been fixed at the factory now.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 8th August 07:10

[mrnoisy78]

ZX10R NIN said:

Try the Trophy if you want things a bit more engaging & raw, the reason for the small boot is the 4wd there had to be compromises made, the 500 is a couple of years away & will be come along as this Focus is phased out.

Yeah I know why it's small mate, was surprised quite how much so though.
Need to drive the Civic again.
Whilst I don't doubt that the Megane is probably the most track focused of all these cars, visually does nothing for me and the interior really is very 90's, I'd want something a little more as this isn't going to be a track special it's a daily.

Pretty sure it's between the CTR and the RS now.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 8th August 11:31

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 8th August 13:43

[mrnoisy78]

Been out this lunchtime to test drive another CTR.
I now find myself in a bit of a dilemma.

The CTR delivers in terms of:
- The gadgets
- The interior (was good enough for me anyway)
- Manual gearbox (which feels great)
- Acceleration and excitement factor (we were 3 up as I took a mate with me, and he also remarked that it was so much more impressive than the Golf R)
- Enormous boot

I even looked at it and thought, OK I could learn to like the look of this car - I had similar thoughts when I bought my bugeye Impreza 11 years ago.

Now the downside - two things:
1. The ride. Ah the ride. On a normal A road was thinking, "meh, this is pretty solid but not too bad, I could probably live with this", but then we turned down a side street and "oh for the love of christ this is worse than the Subaru was on coilovers" lol. R mode is virtually unusable too unless you're on the motorway I'd imagine, much firmer.
The difference in damping getting back into the BMW from that Type R was like night and day - this is the problem, the M3 is a high benchmark to live up to.
2. The engine noise. Now right now I'm spoilt with a lovely sounding V8, and before that I had a flat four burble.
The Honda roars in an angry way, but it sounds almost too shouty rather than characterful; I know now what some of the journalists meant.

Number 2 I could live with push came to shove, but I'm not sure about number 1; I'm test driving another RS on Wednesday morning at which point I'll make my mind up and decide what I'm going to do.
Ultimately I think if the Ford really doesn't light my fire, I can always just keep the BMW and seek out a manual version to try that.
If the civic was a weekend only car I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but as a daily, I have concerns....

One of the biggest benefits of all of this has also been to see quite how a good a car the M3 really is.
Despite my quibbles about it, it's helping me recognise what a good all rounder - and in some cases class leader - it manages to be.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 8th August 14:48

[mrnoisy78]

ZX10R NIN said:

Fair enough on the Megane did you read PH's write up on the Mountune RS?

Well you need to fit in a manual M3 amongst those test drives also have you thought about an Exhaust for the M3 as maybe a bit aural stimulation lower down the rev range would also help.

Definitely agree re the manual M3, the problem is finding a good one with the later spec iDrive and all the goodies.
Mine is quite heavily spec'd - jet black paint, black leather, heated front seats, EDC, USB, Bluetooth, tints, 19" alloys, etc. I spent ages looking for the specific spec I wanted and had to pull out of the first sale with a London BMW dealer as it developed faults before I collected it and turned out rats had eaten the wiring loom - understandably I said "thanks, give me back my deposit" lol.
The only ones I can find at the moment have the horrible blue leather interior which just isn't my thing.

I'm driving another RS tomorrow morning to try and decide if it's worth moving or staying where I am.
So disappointed on the Type R, the styling was almost growing on me but that ride I just don't think I could live with on an everyday basis. The wife would never let me hear the end of it.

The Mountune modifications for the RS which take it to 370/370 sound appealing for sure and would hopefully make it a more exciting car to drive but we'll see.
Ultimately if tomorrow's drive is lack lustre and the boot is really as tiny as I remember it being I can see me leaving it as is, renewing the BMW warranty for another year and maybe buy a cheap track car I can build up in my garage in the future.

The only other alternative I haven't tried yet is that manual M3, and also the AMG C63 - I see they come in 4-MATIC spec which I think someone pointed out earlier on the thread, so that's one other to try - think I'll avoid the RWD only version as I'm not too keen on arse out action on the road network . A few reviews do state firm ride but we'll see how firm!

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 9th August 10:51

[mrnoisy78]

Electronicpants said:

Have you considered going back to the newer "slightly" more grown up WRX STI?

Manual, burbuly, space for the family, and most of all, unlike a lot of the German's actually puts a smile on your face as apposed to chasing numbers.

Got to admit, I've not driven one, but plan to, like you I'm struggling to find a fairly practical car that's actually fun and engaging to drive at sensible speeds, but not a pain in the arse on the daily commute.

Wouldn't touch one mate, they've gone soft.
I had a 2001 WRX and then a 2005 STI over the space of 10 years (I had the WRX for 7, the STI for 3 and spent way too much on both of them ).
The 2.5's they've used since 2006 have chocolate pistons and head gaskets go frequently; the blocks aren't as good as the 2.0 either.
If I was going that way I'd have a 2.1 or 2.35 built with an SC42, GT30 or similar for a bug or hawk shape.
I'm really not a fan of the looks of the hatch or the new car - I'd have a bugeye, blob or hawk shape with the 2.0 engine and a set of Ohlins possibly, but I'd say it's more likely I'd do that for a track car project - the good thing about Imprezas is the servicing aspect - very easy to work on, I did all the servicing on mine myself.

Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 9th August 14:34