Fancy an affordable old school "supercar"

[SPKR]

As the title says, I fancy an affordable old school "supercar". Is the Esprit the only option? X180 and S4.

I'm thinking rear mid engine, 2 seats, probably wedgy, that special feeling you get when sitting in a supercar and old school but not truly classic. So probably 80s or 90s, rather than 70s and older. It helps if it's not something that rusts to the ground or falls apart too easily.

I can't think of anything apart from an Esprit. There are the Venturis and I like that they are V6 instead of 4 cylinders. The Esprit V8 costs too much. But the Venturis are too expensive for what they are, just based on them not being able to sell too many. Esprits seem affordable enough still.

But is the Esprit the only one?

Edited by SPKR on Thursday 23 April 23:04

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Yes I was afraid so. Lack of participation in the thread is probably also an indicative it is the only option here. Mid engine is a central piece of the supercar experience to me. So mid engine it must be.

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The Mondial would indeed be in budget it seems. But it is a 4 seats or 2+2, which is what makes the shape a little strange I think. I'm also concerned about Ferrari running and ownership costs.

But apparently what I'm looking for is not easy. So if I was to bump up the budget a bit, what else is there in the next upper bracket? Apart from the already mentioned Venturis, plus 348s and other V8 Ferraris. 80's or 90's, rear mid engine, 2 seats, pop ups, supercar like.

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Good God. The thread exploded in the mean time.

Nice to see some participation, after being so quiet in here. Thanks everybody for playing.

Some interesting suggestions here. I will address each.

Noble M12 is not really the thing. Much more modern.
Murena is interesting enough. But would anybody take one over the Esprit?
944 is totally off, sorry.
NSX is nice. But I think it misses that spark. Maybe I'm crazy to prefer the Esprit? Seems more of a supercar somehow. Maybe because my generation expects supercars to be unreliable.
850 again somehow not there. It's not really like the Esprit, Venturi or NSX. It doesn't have the supercar low profile and sitting.
AC 300ME I was never a fan. I would honestly prefer something like the MR2.
Montecarlo is lovely. But older, and again not the supercar style I'm looking for which is wedgy with pop ups.

But great suggestions. I think it is just becoming more clear that the Esprit and Venturi and now with a higher budget the NSX are basically alone here.

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TurboBlue said:

OP, I think the choice is as you set out in the first post; Lotus vs Venturi if you want to keep this under £30k; no-body has linked the Venturi that is for sale on PH but there are currently two; the cheapest at £29,995 for a MVS 200 model. Similiar age Esprits are between £20-25k with a little more power from a smaller engine. I've no experience with either so I'll make a subjective call, based solely on looks - I prefer the French car; and just for viewing pleasure:

The main question with the Venturi is I think they are overpriced for what they are. Their price is purely based on how many they made. If they had made as many as Esprits they would be cheaper than the Esprit. So you are not paying for extra performance or any thing extra. I just don't feel like paying that.

The one you link to seems to be in the bottom of the price range. I wonder the reason. I think it should cost less than Esprits of the same vintage. The only one more special is the Venturi 400 GT and that costs many times the price of a Esprit V8. Just doesn't add up for me. Not if I'm using my own money to buy it anyhow.

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samoht said:

Since you're upping the budget, how about a De Tomaso Guara with a BMW V8 for £85k ?

Pic from classicdriver.com
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/de-tomaso/gua...

Not intending to pay nearly that much. £85k is just not in the cards.

I was thinking about 40K tops now. 45K if I really like it. The idea is affordable supercar.

I know affordable is different for everybody. But it's hard to argue 85K is affordable to the general person. Eve 45K is a stretch.

Hence why I think I will end up with some type of Esprit. There doesn't seem to be anything else that looks and feels like it for that price. The Mondial despite being a Ferrari just doesn't appeal as much to me. Neither does the NSX. The Panther Solo above is just a strange looking car. Very odd.

[SPKR]

Venturi is definitely overpirced. Even the 400 GT. I don't get the reference of being the French F40. Not even close. Just because it copied the design doesn't make it similar.

The F40 not only has about 100 hp on it, it is also not a parts bin special. The Venturis are more like Lotus. They use Renault suspension, Peugeot engine, Mercedes wiper and other shared parts. Only thing original is the plastic body it looks. F40 is a thoroughbred.

The 400 GT should be priced as the V8 Ferraris really.

Which brings me to the 348. Problem with the 348, 355 and even the Mondial T is that much of the service is an engine out affair. This is the biggest advantage of the pre Modial T cars. The engine doesn't have to come out.

When you hear the Mondials are not so expensive to run, it's normally meant the older pre facelift cars before the Mondial T. But the Mondial T looks better and has the updated interior which looks like the Testarossa interior. The older Mondials are just not as nice in my opinion.

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belfry said:

Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?

Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.

Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.

I didn't see anybody making any negative comments about the Merak. I certainly didn't. The Merak is a bit older than what I want and the prices are too high for me too. But apart from that I think it's a beautiful car. I also prefer the design over the Bora. I like the flying buttresses better than the glass rear.

Your Merak is stunning.

The Mondial I was never a fan of the design. Just my personal opinion. Mainly because the the rear seats, which make the rear a bit long. But if choosing I prefer the late ones. Like the Mondial T. But like I said the problem with the late ones is the expense to have the engine serviced because it's an engine out job.

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emperorburger said:

The Mondial gets unfairly beaten up. It's aged really well and is an elegant attractive design. I would take a Mondial or Merak over an S4 Esprit any day of the week.

From a design point of view, sure. It's a matter of preference. But from a driving point of view, wouldn't you say the Esprit S4 is a sharper drive than both?

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griffter said:

If we’re going up to £45k are 308 GT4s in contention?

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...

Looks is really subjective and I much prefer the looks of the GT4 than the Mondial. But it is just too old. I really want 80's or 90's. Best if late 80's or early 90's. I know they were made till 1980. But it's a 70's car.

I would also not be comfortable paying that much for a car of that age. I know it's a Ferrari but still.

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Simon-Cook said:

Porsche 928? Not mid engine but does have a 50/50 weight distribution and the era is right. My old man has a 928 GT. At car shows its a magnet. Amazing car to drive too.

Thanks. But totally the wrong car. I also never found them attractive. I much prefer the look of the 944.

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emperorburger said:

Unquestionably, the Esprit will be the sharper drive, however part of the experience of older cars is enjoying their limitations as much as their capabilities.

I understand you. But what I want is some of the old school feeling but still a sharp drive somewhat. Like I was saying, late 80s early 90s is probably perfect. Besides being the sharper drive the Esprit also looks better than the Mondial in my opinion.

But it is truly a pity the Esprit is really alone here. So many great supercars with pop ups were made. All now with the price jacked up by people who don't even drive them. Just to keep them gathering dust so they can brag. Very frustrating.

Things like the F40, F1, F50 and similar would always be expensive and out of reach. But Meraks, Boras, Jalpas, Panteras, Venturis and similar should be reachable. As it used to be a few decades ago where cars that old would be affordable. Honestly even the Countach is way too much money.

It wouldn't be so bad if the people buying them were doing so to drive. But they buy and lock it away.

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Benbay001 said:

To many it isnt a supecar, but my C5 Corvette Z06 has the same fastest Nurburgring lap time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge, yet cost me £15.5k to buy, parts are pittence and has been reliable in the time ive had it. (many examples of 200000 mile ones in the US)

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel4127-1143.htm
(comparison, 360 challenge vs c5 z06)

Edit: a picture (not mine)

Thank you. But a Corvette is not what I fancy at all.

I would like a supercar of sorts. Corvette couldn't be more distant from that. It's not about speed here. Probably anything can go fast if you tune hp. But as I say in my first post, it's also about that special feeling you get when sitting in a supercar. You get that from a Esprit, Ferraris and others. I never felt that in a Corvette or Mustang. Wrong cars.

It absolutely must be rear mid engine too. I think this is a big part of that feeling too.

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Shifter1 said:

But if the Esprit cuts it, you only need the one right?

But totally agree with you and see where you are coming from.

It is looking like it will indeed be it. But I swing between a Turbo Esprit and a Esprit Turbo. I must decide. The late cars are out of contention. I don't like the facelift.

It is just sad that the Esprit is the only option. It is also probably due to some fluke in the market.

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Pvapour said:

I think the meaning of this thread was not about bang for buck, more about nostalgia of an old pop up headlight supercar from the 80s / 90s that ‘looked’ like a supercar ie wedge shaped cliche supercar shape.

I love the C5, thought it better than the C6 personally (had both) but the majority of english dont get nostalgic about old vettes, more so about mustangs probably but neither have been considered a supercar by brits even if they were as quick in most cases, more practical to, which 80s / 90s supercars cannot in any way, be

You are absolutely right. I can see how when I say affordable people can understand bang for the buck. But it was not that.

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NDNDNDND said:

AC 3000ME?

This was already suggested. I don't think it is supercar material. More like a MR2. To me at least. Doesn't fit what I have in mind. But thanks.