What is happening at Noble?
Discussion
joust said:
skwdenyer said:
There are many on here (myself included) who would seriously consider the purchase of the next Noble. Some of us might be sufficiently committed to "the cause" to delay other purchases or make other arrangements specifically to support the new car. Without hope, however, that goodwill and committment ebbs away.
True, but the last time I checked Noble had a significant order book from people that are happy to wait. A person deciding now they want this car that they know nothing about, nor have anything to go on, is therefore going to have to wait until all those orders are fullfilled before they could even place an order knowing what they were ordering.Not quite sure why therefore saying nothing until the car is ready is therefore a bad thing, but then as I'm number 1 in the line, have waited 3 years, and would wait another quite happily I will probably stuggle to understand your point.
J
I'm also entirely open to the suggestion that my views don't match those of many who might / will buy the next Noble - if the order book really is that full with committed purchasers then to be honest I'm very happy for Noble and happy to bide my time. My concern was a genuine one, that the delays and lack of information might hamper their abilities to sell the new beast once it finally arrives. When radical departures from displayed products are made, the XJ220 story tells us that not all original customers like the finished article.
Anyhow, I'm certainly not looking to score any points here. As I said, I wanted to understand what was happening. I seem to have accomplished that as best I can (there are investors, they do have money, there are orders, there is no panic) and shared what I've found with those that asked. Now I'll just await the finished article with interest, and probably buy something else in the mean time!
Any orders Noble have for car "X" are subject to cancellation if prospective customers don't like the spec/styling/pricing so big question mark there.
Personally, thought it was a good move to can the M14/M15 as didn't feel it moved forward much and the info filtering out on new model sounds more promising. So could be a great car but as an ex-M400 owner, to see the way that model was ditched, despite factory comments to the contrary, doesn't fill me with confidence.
I remember the days when Micknall posted here - a great link to the factory and generated a great deal of goodwill between customers and Noble. They may be seen as the glory days, only time will tell but it seems that way at present.
Anyway, good luck to Noble and look forward to seeing the new car.
Personally, thought it was a good move to can the M14/M15 as didn't feel it moved forward much and the info filtering out on new model sounds more promising. So could be a great car but as an ex-M400 owner, to see the way that model was ditched, despite factory comments to the contrary, doesn't fill me with confidence.
I remember the days when Micknall posted here - a great link to the factory and generated a great deal of goodwill between customers and Noble. They may be seen as the glory days, only time will tell but it seems that way at present.
Anyway, good luck to Noble and look forward to seeing the new car.
joust said:
skwdenyer said:
There are many on here (myself included) who would seriously consider the purchase of the next Noble. Some of us might be sufficiently committed to "the cause" to delay other purchases or make other arrangements specifically to support the new car. Without hope, however, that goodwill and committment ebbs away.
True, but the last time I checked Noble had a significant order book from people that are happy to wait. A person deciding now they want this car that they know nothing about, nor have anything to go on, is therefore going to have to wait until all those orders are fullfilled before they could even place an order knowing what they were ordering.Not quite sure why therefore saying nothing until the car is ready is therefore a bad thing, but then as I'm number 1 in the line, have waited 3 years, and would wait another quite happily I will probably stuggle to understand your point.
J
I'm not sure what a significant order book means in terms of numbers but you qualify it as 3 years worth. Are you saying that they don't care if they sell cars beyond 3 years time? Of course they should care and the relevance of the relationships and motivations behind any investment is that actually it should be on a commercial basis because that will mean it has some permanance.
3 years is a long time in terms of keeping a happy relationship as far as Lee Noble is concerned.
joust said:
I didn't write that at all, but then you never actually read people's posts do you?
??? What? What didn't you write at all??
You wrote: - True, but the last time I checked Noble had a significant order book from people that are happy to wait. A person deciding now they want this car that they know nothing about, nor have anything to go on, is therefore going to have to wait until all those orders are fullfilled before they could even place an order knowing what they were ordering.
Not quite sure why therefore saying nothing until the car is ready is therefore a bad thing, but then as I'm number 1 in the line, have waited 3 years, and would wait another quite happily I will probably stuggle to understand your point.
J
Which was in response to this:-
There are many on here (myself included) who would seriously consider the purchase of the next Noble. Some of us might be sufficiently committed to "the cause" to delay other purchases or make other arrangements specifically to support the new car. Without hope, however, that goodwill and committment ebbs away.
Which unless you wish to take those comments out of context then my post is absolutely relevant.
The point is he has been asking/speculating upon the situation, like many before, because maybe he might like to buy one (ring any bells?). You take a view that you'll stick your money in and wait till kingdom comes, which is fair enough - but why say you struggle to see the point from people who don't really understand the commercial sense in a company holding back model info just becaue they have 3 years of orders??
Justine, I wonder whether you apply the same levels of friendliness and humility used in some of your postings here elsewhere in your life! Quite frankly, whilst I find you a knowledgeable and witty sort, these postings come across as embarrassing and more to the point unnecessarily smug and aggressive. I know you have a short fuse but why can't you be more patient and friendly to ALL posters whether you think they are tits or not - what will it cost you? 
Yes, I can "bog off" as can yourself
Of course, if I've misread the tone of these "attack" postings (or couldn't see the (missing) emoticons) then I'm ready to be corrected and will consider collecting your dresses from the cleaners for a month as a friendly gesture
Yes, I can "bog off" as can yourself
Of course, if I've misread the tone of these "attack" postings (or couldn't see the (missing) emoticons) then I'm ready to be corrected and will consider collecting your dresses from the cleaners for a month as a friendly gesture
skwdenyer said:
AMG Merc said:
skwdenyer said:
I wonder if anyone with any knowledge can confirm what this looks like:
- New model is created (and shown) to attract higher prices and (presumably) higher margins.
- Development takes longer / costs more than expected; meanwhile no resources are available to develop existing models to remain competitive.
- Old models are sold off to finance introduction of new model.
- Factory is refurbished to appeal to the quality expectations of the new customers.
- Still not enough money to finish and launch. Current investors can't / won't help. New investors urgently needed.
- New investors see new product, say "we'll invest, but the new product is no good - get it right, we'll finance it, but we'll take the whole of your company in return".
Certainly that's what it feels like to me. Given that Lee Noble has dropped previous projects (Ultima, Ascari), the biggest fear I have is that he'll tire of this new challenge for a company he no longer owns and simply calls it a day. Or am I being unduly fatalistic?
Or as I've suspected for some time - the reception floor is laid and the new car has been ready for ages but there is a large, treacle-sticky legal matter to be resolved before trading commences.- New model is created (and shown) to attract higher prices and (presumably) higher margins.
- Development takes longer / costs more than expected; meanwhile no resources are available to develop existing models to remain competitive.
- Old models are sold off to finance introduction of new model.
- Factory is refurbished to appeal to the quality expectations of the new customers.
- Still not enough money to finish and launch. Current investors can't / won't help. New investors urgently needed.
- New investors see new product, say "we'll invest, but the new product is no good - get it right, we'll finance it, but we'll take the whole of your company in return".
Certainly that's what it feels like to me. Given that Lee Noble has dropped previous projects (Ultima, Ascari), the biggest fear I have is that he'll tire of this new challenge for a company he no longer owns and simply calls it a day. Or am I being unduly fatalistic?
I was thinking - how about if a company wants to start trading but is being sued for a large amount of akkers. To start trading before the outcome of the case may mean that any profits in this and any crossover tax years gets included in any subsequent "awarded" payment to the plaintiff.
AMG Merc said:
skwdenyer said:
AMG Merc said:
skwdenyer said:
I wonder if anyone with any knowledge can confirm what this looks like:
- New model is created (and shown) to attract higher prices and (presumably) higher margins.
- Development takes longer / costs more than expected; meanwhile no resources are available to develop existing models to remain competitive.
- Old models are sold off to finance introduction of new model.
- Factory is refurbished to appeal to the quality expectations of the new customers.
- Still not enough money to finish and launch. Current investors can't / won't help. New investors urgently needed.
- New investors see new product, say "we'll invest, but the new product is no good - get it right, we'll finance it, but we'll take the whole of your company in return".
Certainly that's what it feels like to me. Given that Lee Noble has dropped previous projects (Ultima, Ascari), the biggest fear I have is that he'll tire of this new challenge for a company he no longer owns and simply calls it a day. Or am I being unduly fatalistic?
Or as I've suspected for some time - the reception floor is laid and the new car has been ready for ages but there is a large, treacle-sticky legal matter to be resolved before trading commences.- New model is created (and shown) to attract higher prices and (presumably) higher margins.
- Development takes longer / costs more than expected; meanwhile no resources are available to develop existing models to remain competitive.
- Old models are sold off to finance introduction of new model.
- Factory is refurbished to appeal to the quality expectations of the new customers.
- Still not enough money to finish and launch. Current investors can't / won't help. New investors urgently needed.
- New investors see new product, say "we'll invest, but the new product is no good - get it right, we'll finance it, but we'll take the whole of your company in return".
Certainly that's what it feels like to me. Given that Lee Noble has dropped previous projects (Ultima, Ascari), the biggest fear I have is that he'll tire of this new challenge for a company he no longer owns and simply calls it a day. Or am I being unduly fatalistic?
I was thinking - how about if a company wants to start trading but is being sued for a large amount of akkers. To start trading before the outcome of the case may mean that any profits in this and any crossover tax years gets included in any subsequent "awarded" payment to the plaintiff.
(not a dig, just interested in why you think this might be the case)
CRB1 said:
Are you 100% speculating?
Or do you know something, but cannot comment?
Chris.
Difficult to answer that one because if he says he knows something but can't comment then we all know its a legal matter holding up production!!!Or do you know something, but cannot comment?
Chris.
Even if this were the case I have no idea why this couldn't be communicated as internal politics make jock all difference to the product.
2priestsferrari said:
Unless Noble have no idea what engine, interior spec, body styling then commercially they would love to put something out. Why wouldn't you?
Give a single reason why giving the most basic of confirmed details would hurt their effort.
Looking at this both positively and rationally, answers to the question might include (and of course this is much conjecture / hypothesis):Give a single reason why giving the most basic of confirmed details would hurt their effort.
1. Lee N has been "bitten" in the past by public opinion swaying his investors' minds to the extent that the end product is compromised compared to his original aims.
2. If the product "looks finished" and then takes 2 more years to hone to Lee's liking, he may simply end up in a PR crisis of headlines saying "technical problems hold up production". No visible product means no expectations.
3. He may have technical innovations which he does not wish to share with his competitors until the vehicle is ready for sale.
4. He may have styling features which he wishes to be "fresh" at the point of sale - in my eyes the M15 is already starting to look a little dated.
5. He wishes to create a fundamentally better interior than his previous efforts.
If any of these are the case (or indeed he just wants to "get it right" and believes the product will sell itself and never mind the existing owners, press, etc.), my only concern remains the same one articulated elsewhere - that he may have misjudged the public's tolerance to a company periodically "going dark".
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