Bosch 044 ..This explains a lot
Discussion
Nice info james Cheers....it all makes sense and pretty much agrees with my thoughts and concerns from my above posts.... but in a more technical/factual way 
So in the tank we get about 0.03bar pressure with 0.5m deep fuel....makes sense, so that explains why the pump starts getting noisy as the fuel gets low, as the pressure is dropping in relation...i think based on this i should be ok with 5 psi in the swirl pot, as it equates to roughly 10 times more feed pressure than a full tank..
These facet lifters seem very reliable and robust and it will hopefully help extend the life of the 044...no contingency in place for if a pump goes, unless i were to put 2 lifters and 2 044...without doing this what other failsafe options are there? i suppose having a backup of each is the only way..?
So in the tank we get about 0.03bar pressure with 0.5m deep fuel....makes sense, so that explains why the pump starts getting noisy as the fuel gets low, as the pressure is dropping in relation...i think based on this i should be ok with 5 psi in the swirl pot, as it equates to roughly 10 times more feed pressure than a full tank..
These facet lifters seem very reliable and robust and it will hopefully help extend the life of the 044...no contingency in place for if a pump goes, unless i were to put 2 lifters and 2 044...without doing this what other failsafe options are there? i suppose having a backup of each is the only way..?
Mike Tuckwood said:
The Amp draw on an 044 is pretty high and the major downside of that is heat generation (and additional Alternator load.
Been thinking about Mike's comments and researching on the internet, and have found a very neat solution:http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineeri...
Submerges the pumps to reduce noise and aid cooling, and includes a 2.3l 'surge tank'. I also read elsewhere about running one pump from the stock (in our case upgraded) fuel wiring, and the second from a boost switch. Makes sense that the additional fuel flow is only required when the turbos are working hard, and switching the second pump will reduce the current drain and heat soak issues Mike identified. A neat solution, easily integrated into the side pod, and the tank is available without pumps for about $300. Integrated Engineering also produce a single pump surge tank.
Dom.
anotherdom said:
Been thinking about Mike's comments and researching on the internet, and have found a very neat solution:
http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineeri...
Submerges the pumps to reduce noise and aid cooling, and includes a 2.3l 'surge tank'. I also read elsewhere about running one pump from the stock (in our case upgraded) fuel wiring, and the second from a boost switch. Makes sense that the additional fuel flow is only required when the turbos are working hard, and switching the second pump will reduce the current drain and heat soak issues Mike identified. A neat solution, easily integrated into the side pod, and the tank is available without pumps for about $300. Integrated Engineering also produce a single pump surge tank.
Dom.
That's a nice bit of kit, my concerns relating to heat revolve around the premise that Turbocharged cars are all about good thermal management. The amount of heat that the 044 can generate (with that amount of current draw) will invariably be passing over into the fuel.http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineeri...
Submerges the pumps to reduce noise and aid cooling, and includes a 2.3l 'surge tank'. I also read elsewhere about running one pump from the stock (in our case upgraded) fuel wiring, and the second from a boost switch. Makes sense that the additional fuel flow is only required when the turbos are working hard, and switching the second pump will reduce the current drain and heat soak issues Mike identified. A neat solution, easily integrated into the side pod, and the tank is available without pumps for about $300. Integrated Engineering also produce a single pump surge tank.
Dom.
We have done a few cars now where we have used less powerful pumps, and have installed in-line fuel coolers.
Mike.
Mike Tuckwood said:
That's a nice bit of kit, my concerns relating to heat revolve around the premise that Turbocharged cars are all about good thermal management. The amount of heat that the 044 can generate (with that amount of current draw) will invariably be passing over into the fuel.
We have done a few cars now where we have used less powerful pumps, and have installed in-line fuel coolers.
Mike.
I totally agree with the importance of keeping the fuel cool...and is something which is often overlooked...We have done a few cars now where we have used less powerful pumps, and have installed in-line fuel coolers.
Mike.
Right, for those of you expounding a 'lifter' pump. I've taken delivery of a fuel system comprising of a pair of 044s, fed by a swirl pot and a DeatschWerks DW300 (320 l/hr) in-tank pump. I intend to retain only a single 044, but make use of the swirl pot and DeatschWerks. Has anyone installed an in-tank pump in the Noble fuel tank? Any pointers - I'm thinking an additional tank entry, hanging the pump with the inlet filter sock located in a tray?
Thanks,
Dom.
Thanks,
Dom.
Edited by anotherdom on Monday 26th March 13:04
Edited by anotherdom on Monday 26th March 13:06
I your going to put a pump inside the tank, i think it may be better to buy the pro alloy tank with removeable lid...i looked into making a removeable lid on mine but by the time you finished with all the messing around and fabrication it, i think it is better to just buy the tank with it already done...
the only reason i did not go this route is because i wanted a tapered tank design so that even a small volume of fuel can keep well above outlet level and to give room under tank for filters, pumps and easy pipe routing.
Are you also going to be putting the swirl pot in the side pod? i thought about this with regrds to safety issues..i.e. having everything to do with fuel within the perimeter of the chassis or within the tank is safer, but then i thought well most cars have there fuel pump in the side pod anyway so its no different, and also the air will help keep fuel cool, as i have read many times about how the fuel is used to cool the 044 but never with regards to what will remove heat from the fuel..
I measured 65kmh airflow in the side pod when travelling 130kmh.. so mixed with the ali pot and 044 in the side pod it will surely help keep the temps down.
the only reason i did not go this route is because i wanted a tapered tank design so that even a small volume of fuel can keep well above outlet level and to give room under tank for filters, pumps and easy pipe routing.
Are you also going to be putting the swirl pot in the side pod? i thought about this with regrds to safety issues..i.e. having everything to do with fuel within the perimeter of the chassis or within the tank is safer, but then i thought well most cars have there fuel pump in the side pod anyway so its no different, and also the air will help keep fuel cool, as i have read many times about how the fuel is used to cool the 044 but never with regards to what will remove heat from the fuel..
I measured 65kmh airflow in the side pod when travelling 130kmh.. so mixed with the ali pot and 044 in the side pod it will surely help keep the temps down.
Very smart Andy, thanks for sharing. Looking at photos of the standard fuel sender it might be possible to hang the fuel pump on the rod, and to introduce a union for the fuel feed and electrical connections into the sender's mounting plate. The stock fuel outlet could then be sealed. I will need to pull the sender to get a better idea. I'm keen to try and develop an effective fix that doesn't require the tank itself to be modified. If it can be done this way it would allow far more fuel to be used, even without a swirl pot.
Andy,
I did not see that 2nd pic before..lol.. i would have liked to have seen it in action with the lid off, i bet the top of that pot was squirting fuel like a pressure washer
So seen as though you were using 2 pumps for lifters, you must also have had another 2x044 after the swirl pot..outside of the tank..? to create high pressure to the engine..?
Edited....due to the fact i assumed you had used 2 x044 as lifters,, i am sure i saw another thread where you were talking about using 2x044 as lifters..have you changed the system?
I did not see that 2nd pic before..lol.. i would have liked to have seen it in action with the lid off, i bet the top of that pot was squirting fuel like a pressure washer
So seen as though you were using 2 pumps for lifters, you must also have had another 2x044 after the swirl pot..outside of the tank..? to create high pressure to the engine..?
Edited....due to the fact i assumed you had used 2 x044 as lifters,, i am sure i saw another thread where you were talking about using 2x044 as lifters..have you changed the system?
Edited by R0162 on Monday 26th March 18:11
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff