Tesla downgrades second hand car
Discussion
Someone bought a second hand Tesla Model S that had been upgraded with the Autopilot feature. Autopilot had been included in the advertisement and the second hand sale price.
After the sale Tesla remotely disabled the feature, telling the new owner that it had ‘not been paid for’.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21127243/tesla-m...
Raises questions over just what the owner has bought, what he has a right to sell, and what control manufacturers have retain when they can remotely disable features on previously sold cars.
After the sale Tesla remotely disabled the feature, telling the new owner that it had ‘not been paid for’.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21127243/tesla-m...
Raises questions over just what the owner has bought, what he has a right to sell, and what control manufacturers have retain when they can remotely disable features on previously sold cars.
1 - on earth tells the manufacturer that they are privately selling their car?
2 - Why dont owners fit farraday cages (or tin foil hats) around the antennae on their 'connected cars'
3 - When will he bocome sufficiently proficient at coding to enable the feature through his own laptop?
as an aside - is it any different to VW marketing their TDI cars as X, then recalling them to recalibrate and then returning them as Y?
If the words 'reserve the right' appears anywhere then they can do as they wish as their rights have been reserved.
More facts are required to judge this accurately.
2 - Why dont owners fit farraday cages (or tin foil hats) around the antennae on their 'connected cars'
3 - When will he bocome sufficiently proficient at coding to enable the feature through his own laptop?
as an aside - is it any different to VW marketing their TDI cars as X, then recalling them to recalibrate and then returning them as Y?
If the words 'reserve the right' appears anywhere then they can do as they wish as their rights have been reserved.
More facts are required to judge this accurately.
There are two ways you could read this. The first that the car came with (Because it was paid for) full autopilot, and they removed it, which I think is what the article wants you to believe, and in my eyes is very wrong.
The other, which I think the article actually says, is that somehow the car got Full Autopilot, either through a build error, or through some 3rd party hackery post manufacture, Tesla's latest update checked that and disabled it. If this way of reading it is right, then no one paid for the feature and it shouldn't have been there.
Yes it's a new issue when OTA update are involved, ignoring this obvious one, there's more subtle features that can come and go (or be moved to pay only stuff, I believe they recently did this with some aspects of Autopilot being moved to Full Autopilot only). But is this much different to having your engine map removed when the garage the ECU.
Long and short is that the buyer is losing out, and it's not really his fault, someone back down the chain incorrectly advertised something, be that the Dealer who hacked it, or the auction saying it had a feature it shouldn't. Either way, it's not good, but it's not as bad as I first read.
The other, which I think the article actually says, is that somehow the car got Full Autopilot, either through a build error, or through some 3rd party hackery post manufacture, Tesla's latest update checked that and disabled it. If this way of reading it is right, then no one paid for the feature and it shouldn't have been there.
Yes it's a new issue when OTA update are involved, ignoring this obvious one, there's more subtle features that can come and go (or be moved to pay only stuff, I believe they recently did this with some aspects of Autopilot being moved to Full Autopilot only). But is this much different to having your engine map removed when the garage the ECU.
Long and short is that the buyer is losing out, and it's not really his fault, someone back down the chain incorrectly advertised something, be that the Dealer who hacked it, or the auction saying it had a feature it shouldn't. Either way, it's not good, but it's not as bad as I first read.
Olas said:
1 - on earth tells the manufacturer that they are privately selling their car?
2 - Why dont owners fit farraday cages (or tin foil hats) around the antennae on their 'connected cars'
3 - When will he bocome sufficiently proficient at coding to enable the feature through his own laptop?
as an aside - is it any different to VW marketing their TDI cars as X, then recalling them to recalibrate and then returning them as Y?
If the words 'reserve the right' appears anywhere then they can do as they wish as their rights have been reserved.
More facts are required to judge this accurately.
It's not the same. According to the article the the car was never meant to have autopilot as it was never paid for. It was a mistake in production.2 - Why dont owners fit farraday cages (or tin foil hats) around the antennae on their 'connected cars'
3 - When will he bocome sufficiently proficient at coding to enable the feature through his own laptop?
as an aside - is it any different to VW marketing their TDI cars as X, then recalling them to recalibrate and then returning them as Y?
If the words 'reserve the right' appears anywhere then they can do as they wish as their rights have been reserved.
More facts are required to judge this accurately.
My car has 3 power options on the same engine, which is just a different factory map. If it was supplied accidentally with the wrong map from the manufacturer, they might set it back in a dealership. Tesla have the capability to do that remotely.
IMO as it was Tesla's fault, they should have just left it as is. They sold the car to the dealer with (with autopilot accidentally enabled), who subsequently sold it on to an individual with the autopilot advertised. That individual is the one now out of pocket having paid a price based on the advert/features.
It's an interesting issue though. Normally when you buy a car it's yours. If you sell it on its owned by the next person it's there's. The second owner has no relationship with the manufacturer so how can the manufacturer negatively impact the car without the owners permission?
It's a bit like when apple started slowing down iPhones, what gave the the right to do that?
It's going to happen more as things get more connected.
It isn't new. You can buy a BMW which is mapped, then you can put it in for a routine service and it comes back to you unmapped because the software update done at each service restores the original map and settings that BMW have on the car. I'm sure other manufacturers do the same.
Its very similar to dealer saying we have a mapped BMW for sale.
The only difference here is that anyone buying a tesla know that the car is updateable at any time rather than just when serviced.
Its very similar to dealer saying we have a mapped BMW for sale.
The only difference here is that anyone buying a tesla know that the car is updateable at any time rather than just when serviced.
Surely this is a simple "not as advertised" thing. Buyer has a case against the dealer, dealer, from what I understand, has a case against Tesla, as both advert specs had Autopilot and FSD in them. If I were cynical, I would expect to see a PR story about a free FSD upgrade for the nice man quite soon.
randlemarcus said:
Surely this is a simple "not as advertised" thing. Buyer has a case against the dealer, dealer, from what I understand, has a case against Tesla, as both advert specs had Autopilot and FSD in them. If I were cynical, I would expect to see a PR story about a free FSD upgrade for the nice man quite soon.
Were they both advertised with it? Certainly the article says the it was advertised with it but the dealers but it only says it was enabled from Telsa. To me it sounds like is was initially sold without it, and the dealer realised it actually had it.The fault is with Tesla though, so they should suck it up. They haven't lost anything other than a potential upgrade payment later.
Tesla is liable because they sold the car themselves with AP and FSD enabled, so ultimately they will need to honour the description they gave of the car or take it back.
It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
aestetix1 said:
Tesla is liable because they sold the car themselves with AP and FSD enabled, so ultimately they will need to honour the description they gave of the car or take it back.
It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
Ah, the lemon bit is new. I wonder if the original owner did pay for AP, Tesla ended up with the car back & replaced it with a new one (now with AP enabled of course), and "forgot" to roll back AP on this car that was taken into stock?It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
The story is more a case of events being unfortunate than anything. Tesla change the spec on cars they resell. Dealer buyers with revised spec on paper but thinks he’s dropped lucky as features present in car not on spec sheet and doesn’t understand how Tesla works. Dealer sells car with features, features end up being taken away
This details some of the changes Tesla make on used cars
https://tesla-info.com/blog/buying-used-from-tesla...
This details some of the changes Tesla make on used cars
https://tesla-info.com/blog/buying-used-from-tesla...
aestetix1 said:
Tesla is liable because they sold the car themselves with AP and FSD enabled, so ultimately they will need to honour the description they gave of the car or take it back.
It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
If it was advertised by Tesla as having autopilot then they wouldn't be removing it. It only says it was enabled. If it was unintentionally enabled then they can revoke it.It was a lemon returned to them because of screen yellowing. Under lemon laws they get so many days and attempts to fix it then they have to take it back, so apparently they somehow failed to do that common warranty repair in good time.
buggalugs said:
Really dumb decision by Tesla. Cost to them of doing nothing is zero, instead they’ve elected to piss of a dealer and customer and have their brand tarnished around the world. Slow clap.
its a pretty f
king petty thing to be embroiled in.If the contentious feature had been hardware, lets say bigger wheels "accidentally" fitted by the factory and sold on, strikes me as the equivalent of them coming in the night and swapping them over for the regular wheels without a by-the-way.
Mind, listen to the joe Rogan podcast with the chap who fixes/modifies teslas and just what unnecessary t
ts tesla have been to him.In 2002 I purchased a Mini One from a dealer in Birmingham. These were in high demand then. It had the JCW split rim alloys on it that IIRC were £4800.00 option at the time and also required a suspension upgrade. When doing the paperwork and paying the finance man was surprised it had alloys and went into showroom to check. It cost £10500.00 and was apparently direct from BMW corporate.
Anyway fast forward 4 months and it ate the tyres. When the service guy put the key in the reader it showed that the car was built 12 months before being registered and it was believed it had been used to train production staff at the factory to put on trim as it was also regularly falling off.
Guess what....they upgraded the suspension for free and put four new tyres on it. What they didn’t do was remove the wheels and tell me to suck it up.
Tesla really need to work on their customer service.
Anyway fast forward 4 months and it ate the tyres. When the service guy put the key in the reader it showed that the car was built 12 months before being registered and it was believed it had been used to train production staff at the factory to put on trim as it was also regularly falling off.
Guess what....they upgraded the suspension for free and put four new tyres on it. What they didn’t do was remove the wheels and tell me to suck it up.
Tesla really need to work on their customer service.
Mikebentley said:
Tesla really need to work on their customer service.
Have a read of this, and that's not the first time Tesla have in effect 'banned' someone from buying one of their cars, and I doubt the last.https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-bann...
I was in an Amsterdam Tesla taxi before Christmas. The driver and I were chit-chatting, as you do, and I asked him what he thought of the car (original question :laugh;). He launched into a vitriolic attack on what he thought of Tesla as a company. Apparently as agreed at sale, he and his buying group of taxi drivers (70 cars) were promised free supercharging, which then Telsa subsequently reneged on. The taxi drivers took Tesla to court about it, which they won, but he said during the course of that action 'features' started disappearing in each of their cars. In the end they reached an agreement but he was adamant that the buying groups was not going back to Tesla...
98elise said:
If it was advertised by Tesla as having autopilot then they wouldn't be removing it. It only says it was enabled. If it was unintentionally enabled then they can revoke it.
Jalopnik claims to have seen the original paperwork given to the dealer by Tesla that says it had autopilot.Gassing Station | Tesla | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff