Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)
Discussion
The longer I have my Tesla Model 3, the more I think this.
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
RichardM5 said:
The longer I have my Tesla Model 3, the more I think this.
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
tbh point 2 probably doesn't really apply anymore. You're more likely to find an available none tesla rapid charger in the uk these days than an available tesla one, and obviously no apps required for any recently installed rapid chargers - which is most of them, legislation has seen to that.1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
The Tesla chargers are fair bit cheaper in many places though, not sure how long that will last for though.
Definitely agree that the powertrain progress they have achieved in a relatively short amount of time is HUGELY impressive. As is the weight of the resultant cars too.
RichardM5 said:
The longer I have my Tesla Model 3, the more I think this.
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
Tesla absolute class leaders of the powertrain in recent years however I think that's not as strong as it's used to be, due to competitors finally catching up.1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
Volvo delivered 3.4s 0 to 60 in the EX30 by accident. To paraphrase the spokesperson on EX30 release:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
soupdragon1 said:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
Thing is, if you want high levels of regen and AWD and great range... you have all the ingredients to end up with a very fast car, even if no one actually asked for it to be that fast.I think EV powertrains in general beg the question 'well, why not let it be fast?', there's virtually no penalty in terms of weight or efficiency, so might as well let it be what it is.
TheDeuce said:
tbh point 2 probably doesn't really apply anymore. You're more likely to find an available none tesla rapid charger in the uk these days than an available tesla one, and obviously no apps required for any recently installed rapid chargers - which is most of them, legislation has seen to that.
The Tesla chargers are fair bit cheaper in many places though, not sure how long that will last for though.
Definitely agree that the powertrain progress they have achieved in a relatively short amount of time is HUGELY impressive. As is the weight of the resultant cars too.
Yet to use a non Tesla rapid charger, so I can't comment on how well they work in practice. With a Supercharger you just plug in and it charges, then bills you when you are done.The Tesla chargers are fair bit cheaper in many places though, not sure how long that will last for though.
Definitely agree that the powertrain progress they have achieved in a relatively short amount of time is HUGELY impressive. As is the weight of the resultant cars too.
I’m looking at a BMW iX 50 after 8 years of my car being a Tesla (wife’s kept her BMW). Drivetrain is somewhere between MY and MX, range is good and better than the ratings, I’m looking at the air suspension and the ride is better than any car I’ve been in Tesla or otherwise, it’s much quieter, the tech is different, some is certainly better, some arguably worse, but what’s there works and not a future promise.. sure it’s Model X money without as much interior boot space, but as a car, it makes Tesla look like a cheap Ford.
soupdragon1 said:
Tesla absolute class leaders of the powertrain in recent years however I think that's not as strong as it's used to be, due to competitors finally catching up.
Catching up yes, caught up, not yet. Many main stream manufacturers are massively behind.soupdragon1 said:
Volvo delivered 3.4s 0 to 60 in the EX30 by accident. To paraphrase the spokesperson on EX30 release:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
I was mainly referring to efficiency. The latest Model 3's are better than anything else I know of in the real world regarding efficiency. Stupid buttons on the steering wheel for indicators etc. is just ridiculous and will probably be made illegal at some point. Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
RichardM5 said:
TheDeuce said:
tbh point 2 probably doesn't really apply anymore. You're more likely to find an available none tesla rapid charger in the uk these days than an available tesla one, and obviously no apps required for any recently installed rapid chargers - which is most of them, legislation has seen to that.
The Tesla chargers are fair bit cheaper in many places though, not sure how long that will last for though.
Definitely agree that the powertrain progress they have achieved in a relatively short amount of time is HUGELY impressive. As is the weight of the resultant cars too.
Yet to use a non Tesla rapid charger, so I can't comment on how well they work in practice. With a Supercharger you just plug in and it charges, then bills you when you are done.The Tesla chargers are fair bit cheaper in many places though, not sure how long that will last for though.
Definitely agree that the powertrain progress they have achieved in a relatively short amount of time is HUGELY impressive. As is the weight of the resultant cars too.
But many with an EV have Octopus as their energy supplier, they give an electroverse card which works at most rapid/rapid+ chargers now and also just bills the home energy account, normally at a slightly discounted rate too. You can tap the card or fire it up via the adjoining app.
Not sure what a supercharger costs these days per kw, I think I pay about ~65p these days after the discount. Not that the pennies make very much difference, it's quite rare as I home charge for the most part.
It's neat that the Tesla system 'knows' the car when you plug it in, that was smart out of the box thinking.
Gone fishing said:
I’m looking at a BMW iX 50 after 8 years of my car being a Tesla (wife’s kept her BMW). Drivetrain is somewhere between MY and MX, range is good and better than the ratings, I’m looking at the air suspension and the ride is better than any car I’ve been in Tesla or otherwise, it’s much quieter, the tech is different, some is certainly better, some arguably worse, but what’s there works and not a future promise.. sure it’s Model X money without as much interior boot space, but as a car, it makes Tesla look like a cheap Ford.
My business partner has an iX 40, I have the i4 M50. I can report that after nearly a year playing with both, everything just works beautifully. I have the air and adaptive damping which is great and on the iX even better as it's such a comfortable car.Tech-wise it's stuff like the awesome HUD, brilliant surround cameras and self parking that set them apart, and in general just the 'BMW-ness' of everything being where you need it and working simply and unobtrusively.
Recommended for sure.
ETA: BMW's rate of OTA updates and the simplicity of activating them is also impressive and has bought incremental improvements to the car and driving, which is nice.
TheDeuce said:
soupdragon1 said:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
Thing is, if you want high levels of regen and AWD and great range... you have all the ingredients to end up with a very fast car, even if no one actually asked for it to be that fast.I think EV powertrains in general beg the question 'well, why not let it be fast?', there's virtually no penalty in terms of weight or efficiency, so might as well let it be what it is.
I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
Durzel said:
TheDeuce said:
soupdragon1 said:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
Thing is, if you want high levels of regen and AWD and great range... you have all the ingredients to end up with a very fast car, even if no one actually asked for it to be that fast.I think EV powertrains in general beg the question 'well, why not let it be fast?', there's virtually no penalty in terms of weight or efficiency, so might as well let it be what it is.
I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
But for the masses that have a good few years NCB and are of a ahem.. 'sensible' age
... why not let them be quick? Tbh the most common use of EV pace is to quickly and safely overtake dullards doing 40mph in nat speed limit, or nipping out of a junction or into a tight gap at a roundabout - obviously the lump of torque and power required to do those things also equates to a very quick 0-60 time, but it's not as if that's a daily indulgence.What's happened to PH by the way, when I joined 'too fast' wasn't really an issue around here
RichardM5 said:
Yet to use a non Tesla rapid charger, so I can't comment on how well they work in practice. With a Supercharger you just plug in and it charges, then bills you when you are done.
The non Tesla alternative is “plug and charge” which requires support by the car and charger. VW, Polestar/Volvo, BMW, Mercedes and Ford all have some complaint cars out and some charge networks support the standard. Give it a little time and this will be widespread.
RichardM5 said:
soupdragon1 said:
Tesla absolute class leaders of the powertrain in recent years however I think that's not as strong as it's used to be, due to competitors finally catching up.
Catching up yes, caught up, not yet. Many main stream manufacturers are massively behind.soupdragon1 said:
Volvo delivered 3.4s 0 to 60 in the EX30 by accident. To paraphrase the spokesperson on EX30 release:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
I was mainly referring to efficiency. The latest Model 3's are better than anything else I know of in the real world regarding efficiency. Stupid buttons on the steering wheel for indicators etc. is just ridiculous and will probably be made illegal at some point. Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
RichardM5 said:
The longer I have my Tesla Model 3, the more I think this.
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
Interested to hear why you think the whole car (bar the powertrain) is a joke. What’s your point of comparison?1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
TheDeuce said:
Durzel said:
TheDeuce said:
soupdragon1 said:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
Thing is, if you want high levels of regen and AWD and great range... you have all the ingredients to end up with a very fast car, even if no one actually asked for it to be that fast.I think EV powertrains in general beg the question 'well, why not let it be fast?', there's virtually no penalty in terms of weight or efficiency, so might as well let it be what it is.
I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
But for the masses that have a good few years NCB and are of a ahem.. 'sensible' age
... why not let them be quick? Tbh the most common use of EV pace is to quickly and safely overtake dullards doing 40mph in nat speed limit, or nipping out of a junction or into a tight gap at a roundabout - obviously the lump of torque and power required to do those things also equates to a very quick 0-60 time, but it's not as if that's a daily indulgence.What's happened to PH by the way, when I joined 'too fast' wasn't really an issue around here
Model 3/Y etc are positioned as cars for the masses but they’re all rapid. One could make an argument perhaps that a version that was a bit slower might be cheaper to insure?
In a practical sense how useful is insane acceleration in a family vehicle anyway? How many significant others are going to tolerate it? It’s a bit of a party trick on those cars, in my opinion.
Durzel said:
TheDeuce said:
Durzel said:
TheDeuce said:
soupdragon1 said:
Our customers are more interested in the 60 to zero time to be honest as that's important. When designing the single motor version, we wanted a good power train but when we added a second motor for the 4wd car, it ended up being really fast. That wasn't the design goal, it just sort of turned out like that.
Thing is, if you want high levels of regen and AWD and great range... you have all the ingredients to end up with a very fast car, even if no one actually asked for it to be that fast.I think EV powertrains in general beg the question 'well, why not let it be fast?', there's virtually no penalty in terms of weight or efficiency, so might as well let it be what it is.
I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
But for the masses that have a good few years NCB and are of a ahem.. 'sensible' age
... why not let them be quick? Tbh the most common use of EV pace is to quickly and safely overtake dullards doing 40mph in nat speed limit, or nipping out of a junction or into a tight gap at a roundabout - obviously the lump of torque and power required to do those things also equates to a very quick 0-60 time, but it's not as if that's a daily indulgence.What's happened to PH by the way, when I joined 'too fast' wasn't really an issue around here
Model 3/Y etc are positioned as cars for the masses but they’re all rapid. One could make an argument perhaps that a version that was a bit slower might be cheaper to insure?
In a practical sense how useful is insane acceleration in a family vehicle anyway? How many significant others are going to tolerate it? It’s a bit of a party trick on those cars, in my opinion.
The insurance on very fast EV's doesn't seem to be particularly high either - although it's heavily distorted by insurance for many cars, particularly some EV's, being inflated because of repair delays at the moment.
My 550hp M50 was £550 for me and the wife, I don't have my own NCB either. I think that's pretty good for a £75k car.
As for the usefulness of such acceleration... I drive it alone, it's great fun! I sometimes can't believe just how much power there is and how little it costs to make use of it. Then Mrs Deuce gets in and I use only about 80bhp
Durzel said:
Insurance, for one.
I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
Not sure pure performance is the driver for the insurance group.I do wonder why manufacturers don't release versions of their cars with more constrained acceleration. Mainstream EVs doing 0-60 in low 3 seconds is bonkers really.
Tesla Model 3 is insurance group 48 and 50 (the highest) for the base model and Long Range respectively. Jaguar i-Pace is 50 as well.
You would think there would be a market for de-tuned EVs, particularly for newer drivers.
My mate has a Y. Someone crashed into it whilst parked.
3 months on, he’s still in a courtesy car because the repair can’t start until Tesla provide the parts. What’s that going to be? 5 months of courtesy car for a smaller prang?
Imp repair costs are the driver of insurance costs / groups - which explains why an Alfa motor is expensive to repair (5mph hit to corner is 2-5k apparently, the gubbins tucked right inside the front bumper don’t like to be bumped and are expensive)…
Fair points well made.
I've heard anecdotal tales of ridiculously long repair times for simple things too.
Been following a thread from a guy in Leeds who is also 4 months into waiting for a replacement "front lower axle arm and the bumper absorber", with no sign at all that it is on its way.
The crazy thing is - you could have ordered a new Y had it delivered in that time, perhaps even ordered 2 that arrived on separate boats. When I mentioned this on the thread it was said that "Tesla make more money selling brand new cars"... like that was somehow an excuse?
I dread any accident in my M3P now.
I've heard anecdotal tales of ridiculously long repair times for simple things too.
Been following a thread from a guy in Leeds who is also 4 months into waiting for a replacement "front lower axle arm and the bumper absorber", with no sign at all that it is on its way.
The crazy thing is - you could have ordered a new Y had it delivered in that time, perhaps even ordered 2 that arrived on separate boats. When I mentioned this on the thread it was said that "Tesla make more money selling brand new cars"... like that was somehow an excuse?
I dread any accident in my M3P now.
skwdenyer said:
RichardM5 said:
The longer I have my Tesla Model 3, the more I think this.
1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
Interested to hear why you think the whole car (bar the powertrain) is a joke. What’s your point of comparison?1) The team that developed the power train did a fantastic job, there is little question in my mind it is the best in class by a considerable margin.
2) The super charger network is again best in class, without it I would not have even considered one (bought nearly 5 years ago). It just works. No messing about with apps, registering for this, that or the other.
3) Every other aspect of the car, company and management is a joke.
Because of 3) they will fail, sooner or later, irrespective of the benefits of 1) and 2).
- Too many major controls require you to look to see where they are, mainly buried in a menu on the screen.
- Voice commands are utterly unreliable.
- Windscreen wipers that every other manufacturer uses internal reflections and refraction to detect water on the screen that works pretty well, using cameras where the focal point is miles from the water on the screen and just don't work. They wipe when you drive under trees when it's bone dry and don't wipe when you have rain. Combine that with the fact that you can only change the settings from the touch screen (yes it pops up when you manually do a swipe) drives me nuts.
- The bloody thing is always beeping and overriding my steering inputs to avoid potholes that I can and it can't 'see'.
- Water pours into the boot when you open it if it's been out in the rain because the seal and lip is ridiculously small.
- Very poor for creaks and rattles, it was good when new.
- Entertainment system crashes often on start up requiring reboot, during which time you can't indicate, see your speed or perform any function that requires the screen.
- Automatic garage door opener/closer randomly decides not to activate or activate just as you are reversing in.
- Windows often don't fully close after dropping when you open a door and close it again.
- Not on mine, but the Highland with it's indicator buttons on the steering wheel and gear change on the monitor/roof would drive me mad.
- 'Self Driving' feature that is currently exceedingly dangerous in some conditions.
- Management shenanigans by a certain CEO.
I could probably go on for pages about stupid, relatively minor, niggles that just should not have made it through design/production/quality control.
RichardM5 said:
45 years of driving mainstream manufacturer cars. Volvo, Vauxhall, VW, Mercedes, Ford, BMW.
- Too many major controls require you to look to see where they are, mainly buried in a menu on the screen.
- Voice commands are utterly unreliable.
- Windscreen wipers that every other manufacturer uses internal reflections and refraction to detect water on the screen that works pretty well, using cameras where the focal point is miles from the water on the screen and just don't work. They wipe when you drive under trees when it's bone dry and don't wipe when you have rain. Combine that with the fact that you can only change the settings from the touch screen (yes it pops up when you manually do a swipe) drives me nuts.
- The bloody thing is always beeping and overriding my steering inputs to avoid potholes that I can and it can't 'see'.
- Water pours into the boot when you open it if it's been out in the rain because the seal and lip is ridiculously small.
- Very poor for creaks and rattles, it was good when new.
- Entertainment system crashes often on start up requiring reboot, during which time you can't indicate, see your speed or perform any function that requires the screen.
- Automatic garage door opener/closer randomly decides not to activate or activate just as you are reversing in.
- Windows often don't fully close after dropping when you open a door and close it again.
- Not on mine, but the Highland with it's indicator buttons on the steering wheel and gear change on the monitor/roof would drive me mad.
- 'Self Driving' feature that is currently exceedingly dangerous in some conditions.
- Management shenanigans by a certain CEO.
I could probably go on for pages about stupid, relatively minor, niggles that just should not have made it through design/production/quality control.
All fair points.- Too many major controls require you to look to see where they are, mainly buried in a menu on the screen.
- Voice commands are utterly unreliable.
- Windscreen wipers that every other manufacturer uses internal reflections and refraction to detect water on the screen that works pretty well, using cameras where the focal point is miles from the water on the screen and just don't work. They wipe when you drive under trees when it's bone dry and don't wipe when you have rain. Combine that with the fact that you can only change the settings from the touch screen (yes it pops up when you manually do a swipe) drives me nuts.
- The bloody thing is always beeping and overriding my steering inputs to avoid potholes that I can and it can't 'see'.
- Water pours into the boot when you open it if it's been out in the rain because the seal and lip is ridiculously small.
- Very poor for creaks and rattles, it was good when new.
- Entertainment system crashes often on start up requiring reboot, during which time you can't indicate, see your speed or perform any function that requires the screen.
- Automatic garage door opener/closer randomly decides not to activate or activate just as you are reversing in.
- Windows often don't fully close after dropping when you open a door and close it again.
- Not on mine, but the Highland with it's indicator buttons on the steering wheel and gear change on the monitor/roof would drive me mad.
- 'Self Driving' feature that is currently exceedingly dangerous in some conditions.
- Management shenanigans by a certain CEO.
I could probably go on for pages about stupid, relatively minor, niggles that just should not have made it through design/production/quality control.
In terms of automatic wipers, I've only experienced these on three vehicles, from three different manufacturers. In all three cases they have universally been terrible. Differently terrible to your experience, yes, but nonetheless terrible - sometimes (actually, often on my Yorkshire Dales roads) dangerously so. As an engineer by background, I would naturally gravitate towards a camera-based system, solely because it is a visual problem that needs to be solved.
As a "35mm-equivalent" focal length, the human eye is about 43mm. From memory, the original wide angle Tesla camera had a focal length (on the same scale) of 6mm, with the mid-zoom camera being 46mm. I wouldn't expect the Tesla cameras to do auto-focussing of the type the human eye does (briefly focussing on the screen), and of course the forward-facing cameras are far closer to the glass than your eye (making the comparison more complex).
I don't have a Tesla to hand to measure, but it looks to me as though a 46mm focal length would be sufficient to allow the camera to see rain on the windscreen. I don't doubt the software needs further work but, as I say, I don't trust auto wipers on any other cars (and now turn them off completely). But I don't for a moment discount your lived (driven) experience.
But from an engineering PoV, Tesla's approach *can* improve with updated software, whereas conventional systems seem to be at the limit of their ability right now.
As regards the major controls / screen / etc. I'm not sure how that counts as "a joke." Those are design decisions (increasingly shared by many other manufacturers), and were present when you (presumably) tested and ordered the car
I get that you're annoyed by them, but isn't that just buyer's remorse? The same applies to the indicator buttons on Highland - buyers get to make that choice. There are *so many* control choices I dislike on *so many* cars that it seems a little odd to call out Tesla - I'd agree that cars of 20/30/40 years ago were frankly better from an instinctive control PoV.The other reliability issues sound poor, yes. Many of them sound similar to my experiences of other marques, but they shouldn't be there in any new car. I don't know how old your Tesla is, but we've never had a new car that didn't develop creaks and rattles over several years of heavy use on British roads. But I do live in the Yorkshire Dales now
The boot water doesn't sound great, either, although it seems to be a "feature" shared with a number of other vehicles - from quick memory, those include VW's' T-Roc and Toureg, Seat's Ateca, JLR's Disco Sport, Audi's B3 80, Honda's 9th gen Accord, BMW's F10 5-series, and many many more. Honestly, many manufacturers simply don't design boot lids and gutters for British conditions.
"Management shenanigans" aren't a feature of the car (which is what I asked - Musk's antics are a whole different ballgame, which may be important to some potential buyers and irrelevant to others).
Gassing Station | Tesla | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff