Discussion
Also Tesla are forging their own path when it comes to car construction too.
Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
@LivLL, its not a dig, but if you feel this way, maybe just get a Toyota or something similarly reliable and run it for a while? It’s only going to get worse going forwards, it can only be that way with the end goal being Level 5 full autonomous driving for all the big manufacturers. Having said that, maybe in 10 - 15 years time, things will have settled down a bit and be less annoying?
Edited by wyson on Friday 13th October 11:02
LivLL said:
I understand they’ve released many, many software bug fixes and games etc.. along with changing the UI a few times but I’m not getting where the enjoyment of doing updates comes from.
As someone who's owned one for over 4 years, it's nice seeing the car and app become better and even add functionality during ownership. (addition of sentry mode, better driving aids, more media options,...)It's a fact of life that most cars these days have some advanced functionality.
Remember a Mercedes 20 years ago? It became a button fest, with all media options, 4 zone climate controls, heated and cooled seats, it was a horrible experience and imho the big touchscreen has made that a lot better.
Some companies have given up on that and rely on Android Auto or Apple Carplay for connectivity and media, others have made their own systems and others have gone to Google.
No system (except for to an extent the Google one) works as well as the one Tesla built.
As someone mentioned, buy a Toyota or Dacia, it's solid motoring with no faf. They will also not feel as dated in another 20 years.
But buying any modern car with modern functionality and thinking OTA software updates are a bane is beyond me.
My neighbour bought a Taycan, they had a bug fix for which he had to leave the car at Porsche for three days whilst they do the update. That's a PITA.
They way they've been doing them with Tesla in my experience, is very pleasant.
wyson said:
@LivLL, its not a dig, but if you feel this way, maybe just get a Toyota or something similarly reliable and run it for a while? It’s only going to get worse going forwards, it can only be that way with the end goal being Level 5 full autonomous driving for all the big manufacturers. Having said that, maybe in 10 - 15 years time, things will have settled down a bit and be less annoying?
A Toyota? I'd rather walk thanks Edited by wyson on Friday 13th October 11:02
wyson said:
Also Tesla are forging their own path when it comes to car construction too.
Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
I thought the whole exoskelton thing had been abandoned and it's much more conventional now. Model Y only uses a rear casting and no structural pack for the majority of the vehicles.Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
Innovation, driven by cost vs innovation to improve products usually results in very, very different outcomes for customers.
Again, we're drifting away from the Model Y thread, it is clearly an excellent EV and selling extremely well. I'm just not buying the software update kool aid that it's a feature customers should enjoy. I know if we fast forward 30 years (if I'm still here) most cars will have no physical controls and look like the inside of a wheelie bin with a touch or VR interface, can't fight progress good or bad.
LivLL said:
I'm just not buying the software update kool aid that it's a feature customers should enjoy.
Not sure if it's something to enjoy strictly speaking, but a colleague won't be able to use the full functionality of Android Auto in his Seat (2015/2016 ish) because one of the most recent security update of Android prevents some data exchange between the car and the phone and there is no update from Seat to solve it.Therefore I see the OTA updates a very important feature when buying a car
wyson said:
The infotainment is just the visible tip of a software controlled iceberg. Level 5 autonomous driving requires everything to be software controlled. This is the end game for this paradigm.
Software is going to be the main competition ground, along with battery chemistry going forwards.
You are still thinking old skool, from a mechanical, human controlled mindset when the new paradigm is for cars to become networked computers on wheels, which is what Level 5 autonomous driving will require.
Tesla acted on this level of software integration before everyone else. And TBF, in some respects, they are getting ahead of themselves. Sure, a Level 5 autonomous vehicle doesn’t need indicator stalks, but you need them now. etc.
Thats only half the story. Hardware choices determine what you can get the software to do and Tesla have been caught out numerous times with the "we'll do it in software later" argument.Software is going to be the main competition ground, along with battery chemistry going forwards.
You are still thinking old skool, from a mechanical, human controlled mindset when the new paradigm is for cars to become networked computers on wheels, which is what Level 5 autonomous driving will require.
Tesla acted on this level of software integration before everyone else. And TBF, in some respects, they are getting ahead of themselves. Sure, a Level 5 autonomous vehicle doesn’t need indicator stalks, but you need them now. etc.
Edited by wyson on Friday 13th October 10:43
They're on the 4th generation of Autipilot processor, 2 if not third generation of cameras, radar in, then out and now in again on some models. they added internal camera to monitor the driver, they've had to increase the wiring to give some resiliance to single points of failure.. and they've still not driven a single mile above level 2.
They introduced a dash cam and sentry mode.but no low power mode so the car uses horrendous amounts of electricity whilst sentry mode is running.
They didn't have blind spot warnings anywhere sensible to they stuck the side camera on the screen, so you're in a RHD car, you want to pull out, you want to shoulder check over your right shoulder or check the side mirror where most cars have their blind spot warnings, and Tesla don't, you have to look in the completely opposite direction.
The windows on some cars didn't have anti trap mechanisms in the hardware.
No haptic feedback anywhere, so using the screen whilst driving absolutely requires you to take your eyes off the road.
And then given they could design any UI they want to, just try controlling the windscreen wipers from the steering wheel. Press the single swipe button and you get a wiper control menu which you can scroll left or right to change the settings. Press the scroll wheel however to bring up the wiper control menu and now you scroll up and down to change the setting.. WTF...
Edited by Gone fishing on Friday 13th October 16:32
Gone fishing said:
Thats only half the story. Hardware choices determine what you can get the software to do and Tesla have been caught out numerous times with the "we'll do it in software later" argument.
They're on the 4th generation of Autipilot processor, 2 if not third generation of cameras, radar in, then out and now in again on some models. they added internal camera to monitor the driver, they've had to increase the wiring to give some resiliance to single points of failure.. and they've still not driven a single mile above level 2.
They introduced a dash cam and sentry mode.but no low power mode so the car uses horrendous amounts of electricity whilst sentry mode is running.
They didn't have blind spot warnings anywhere sensible to they stuck the side camera on the screen, so you're in a RHD car, you want to pull out, you want to shoulder check over your right shoulder or check the side mirror where most cars have their blind spot warnings, and Tesla don't, you have to look in the completely opposite direction.
The windows on some cars didn't have anti trap mechanisms in the hardware.
No haptic feedback anywhere, so using the screen whilst driving absolutely requires you to take your eyes off the road.
And then given they could design any UI they want to, just try controlling the windscreen wipers from the steering wheel. Press the single swipe button and you get a wiper control menu which you can scroll left or right to change the settings. Press the scroll wheel however to bring up the wiper control menu and now you scroll up and down to change the setting.. WTF...
Haha, that’s a pretty good summary! They're on the 4th generation of Autipilot processor, 2 if not third generation of cameras, radar in, then out and now in again on some models. they added internal camera to monitor the driver, they've had to increase the wiring to give some resiliance to single points of failure.. and they've still not driven a single mile above level 2.
They introduced a dash cam and sentry mode.but no low power mode so the car uses horrendous amounts of electricity whilst sentry mode is running.
They didn't have blind spot warnings anywhere sensible to they stuck the side camera on the screen, so you're in a RHD car, you want to pull out, you want to shoulder check over your right shoulder or check the side mirror where most cars have their blind spot warnings, and Tesla don't, you have to look in the completely opposite direction.
The windows on some cars didn't have anti trap mechanisms in the hardware.
No haptic feedback anywhere, so using the screen whilst driving absolutely requires you to take your eyes off the road.
And then given they could design any UI they want to, just try controlling the windscreen wipers from the steering wheel. Press the single swipe button and you get a wiper control menu which you can scroll left or right to change the settings. Press the scroll wheel however to bring up the wiper control menu and now you scroll up and down to change the setting.. WTF...
Edited by Gone fishing on Friday 13th October 16:32
Weird then, that I love my Tesla so much (YLR), and feel no desire to change it. Although the Eletre I drove the other day was brilliant.
NGL, I rolled my eyes hard when they removed ultrasonic parking sensors and said they would use the cameras. Its hilarious watching how badly Tesla’s fail on youtube videos of parking with the camera only system. Not to mention that Tesla are the only manufacturer who aren’t using Lidar. Definitely a lot of hubris out of them too.
wyson said:
Also Tesla are forging their own path when it comes to car construction too.
Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
How does that square with repairability though?Their Cybertruck if they can get it to work, will be the first mass produced exoskeleton design on the road.
The Model Y, its moving to a 3 piece construction. 2 massive castings either end and a structural battery pack joining them. They pioneered this approach and its being copied now by companies like Volvo / Geely.
IME Teslas are already getting ridiculous to insure. My premium has gone up year on year without accidents or claims. Tesla parts delays and consequential costs are the stuff of legend on the various FB groups, people waiting months for basic parts, etc. If they moved to a system where a reasonable knock could write the car off - at what point does it become uneconomical to even own these marvels of engineering?
Durzel said:
How does that square with repairability though?
IME Teslas are already getting ridiculous to insure. My premium has gone up year on year without accidents or claims. Tesla parts delays and consequential costs are the stuff of legend on the various FB groups, people waiting months for basic parts, etc. If they moved to a system where a reasonable knock could write the car off - at what point does it become uneconomical to even own these marvels of engineering?
Tesla offers its own insurance in a few states in the US. If you drive safer it gets cheaper. A sign of things to come presumably.IME Teslas are already getting ridiculous to insure. My premium has gone up year on year without accidents or claims. Tesla parts delays and consequential costs are the stuff of legend on the various FB groups, people waiting months for basic parts, etc. If they moved to a system where a reasonable knock could write the car off - at what point does it become uneconomical to even own these marvels of engineering?
Little update now I’ve done 200 ish miles in two days.
I’m surprised how efficient it is. I’ve made no changes to my driving style and have averaged 4miles per kWh. Thats a mix of urban and motorway with cabin set to 20 and heated wheel and seat on in the mornings. No pre conditioning.
How can tesla get away with these auto wipers? They were fine in heavy rain but terrible in fine rain and road spray. Peugeot managed this in the 90’s, yet it’s beyond tesla.
Ride is acceptable but not as polished as my old g20 330e. Seems to get unsettled easily and gets a bit choppy over broken tarmac. But it is a suv so it’s never going to be as poised as a saloon car.
Steering is very twitchy. The rack is too quick for this type of car. Coupled with the suspension it seems to loose composure.
I’m going to miss carplay. I use waze for every journey. The navigation is ok but waze just does it better. Also looks like I’m going to have to spend £10 a month just to keep the nav useable. A s
tty tactic from tesla.
Im sure I’ll get used to how it drives and rides in a couple of weeks and forget about it.
The wipers are unforgivable. At this price point or any in fact the wipers should work. If they aren’t willing to get them working correctly then at least make navigating between setting easier.
I’m surprised how efficient it is. I’ve made no changes to my driving style and have averaged 4miles per kWh. Thats a mix of urban and motorway with cabin set to 20 and heated wheel and seat on in the mornings. No pre conditioning.
How can tesla get away with these auto wipers? They were fine in heavy rain but terrible in fine rain and road spray. Peugeot managed this in the 90’s, yet it’s beyond tesla.
Ride is acceptable but not as polished as my old g20 330e. Seems to get unsettled easily and gets a bit choppy over broken tarmac. But it is a suv so it’s never going to be as poised as a saloon car.
Steering is very twitchy. The rack is too quick for this type of car. Coupled with the suspension it seems to loose composure.
I’m going to miss carplay. I use waze for every journey. The navigation is ok but waze just does it better. Also looks like I’m going to have to spend £10 a month just to keep the nav useable. A s
tty tactic from tesla. Im sure I’ll get used to how it drives and rides in a couple of weeks and forget about it.
The wipers are unforgivable. At this price point or any in fact the wipers should work. If they aren’t willing to get them working correctly then at least make navigating between setting easier.
WilliamWoollard said:
MrJuice said:
What's the select car leasing Tesla handover like? Will they talk through how the car works?
The chap that delivered mine was very helpful. I'm the sort of person that just likes to figure things out myself, I don't want a step by step handover, just give me the key and I'll work it out. Even explaining this didn't put him off, he was very thorough.Perfect handover imo. There are endless videos online on how to do everything. I don’t like the pomp and ceremony some manufacturers make.
sam.rog said:
Little update now I’ve done 200 ish miles in two days.
I’m surprised how efficient it is. I’ve made no changes to my driving style and have averaged 4miles per kWh. Thats a mix of urban and motorway with cabin set to 20 and heated wheel and seat on in the mornings. No pre conditioning.
How can tesla get away with these auto wipers? They were fine in heavy rain but terrible in fine rain and road spray. Peugeot managed this in the 90’s, yet it’s beyond tesla.
Ride is acceptable but not as polished as my old g20 330e. Seems to get unsettled easily and gets a bit choppy over broken tarmac. But it is a suv so it’s never going to be as poised as a saloon car.
Steering is very twitchy. The rack is too quick for this type of car. Coupled with the suspension it seems to loose composure.
I’m going to miss carplay. I use waze for every journey. The navigation is ok but waze just does it better. Also looks like I’m going to have to spend £10 a month just to keep the nav useable. A stty tactic from tesla.
Im sure I’ll get used to how it drives and rides in a couple of weeks and forget about it.
The wipers are unforgivable. At this price point or any in fact the wipers should work. If they aren’t willing to get them working correctly then at least make navigating between setting easier.
You don't need to pay £10 a month unless you want to see the traffic information on the screen. The sat nav still uses traffic data for routing even if you don't subscribe, although it actually uses a different source of information to that displayed. Best of both worlds or confusing when the map says the road is clear and the car wants to divert or vice versa? You get used to it, and they're much more in sync than they used to be 5 years ago.I’m surprised how efficient it is. I’ve made no changes to my driving style and have averaged 4miles per kWh. Thats a mix of urban and motorway with cabin set to 20 and heated wheel and seat on in the mornings. No pre conditioning.
How can tesla get away with these auto wipers? They were fine in heavy rain but terrible in fine rain and road spray. Peugeot managed this in the 90’s, yet it’s beyond tesla.
Ride is acceptable but not as polished as my old g20 330e. Seems to get unsettled easily and gets a bit choppy over broken tarmac. But it is a suv so it’s never going to be as poised as a saloon car.
Steering is very twitchy. The rack is too quick for this type of car. Coupled with the suspension it seems to loose composure.
I’m going to miss carplay. I use waze for every journey. The navigation is ok but waze just does it better. Also looks like I’m going to have to spend £10 a month just to keep the nav useable. A s
tty tactic from tesla. Im sure I’ll get used to how it drives and rides in a couple of weeks and forget about it.
The wipers are unforgivable. At this price point or any in fact the wipers should work. If they aren’t willing to get them working correctly then at least make navigating between setting easier.
As for the rest, thats pretty much my experience. One tip is to check your tyre pressures. Tesla have a habit of delivering with them massively over inflated. They should probably be around 42psi when cold, mine were 48psi. It might just take some of the bounce out the car and calm it down,. but it's never going to be a magic carpet ride.
Durzel said:
How does that square with repairability though?
IME Teslas are already getting ridiculous to insure. My premium has gone up year on year without accidents or claims. Tesla parts delays and consequential costs are the stuff of legend on the various FB groups, people waiting months for basic parts, etc. If they moved to a system where a reasonable knock could write the car off - at what point does it become uneconomical to even own these marvels of engineering?
I’m not sure I’d want to own one, it’s still a great deal on my employee lease scheme though. I love my Y it’s possibly my favourite car I’ve ever owned which is odd as I never really wanted an EV or a Tesla until my work scheme started.IME Teslas are already getting ridiculous to insure. My premium has gone up year on year without accidents or claims. Tesla parts delays and consequential costs are the stuff of legend on the various FB groups, people waiting months for basic parts, etc. If they moved to a system where a reasonable knock could write the car off - at what point does it become uneconomical to even own these marvels of engineering?
I wouldn’t want to be owning it though or having to pay for it all, especially anything goes wrong with it.
Not sure what it is but I just really enjoy driving it and using the big screen etc, it’s easy to operate and super nippy. The whole charging system works really well especially after I got a wall charger at home.
I agree with many of the criticisms on here but tbh it’s just so great to drive around in that I’m not bothered by them.
sam.rog said:
...The wipers are unforgivable. At this price point or any in fact the wipers should work. If they aren’t willing to get them working correctly then at least make navigating between setting easier.
Tesla hack: Push the button on the turn signal stalk, then use the left hand scroll wheel (pushing it left or right) to change the wiper speed.wyson said:
I thought they sorted the ride quality now with comfort suspension? Is it a brand new car, or did you get used? Does it have a rear parcel shelf?
Brand new. Its not bad but its easily flustered by undulating or bad surfaces. The bmw just felt more composed. Easiest way to describe it is the ride in the bmw feels more expensive.
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