Model X after 2 years and 28k.
Discussion
gangzoom said:
xjay1337 said:
When you put it like that, it seems a rip off.
The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
The Media control unit is £3k replacement out of warranty, that seems like a lot but Lexus wants a similar amount for replacing the media unit in a IS300H.The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
Tesla are no worse than BMW/Audi/Merc, but reliability is poor compared to Lexus/Honda/Nissan.
As always the extended warranty is how risk averse you are. In a Lexus/Honda/Nissan your essentially throwing your money away, in a BMW I would you say your foolish not to take one. In the Tesla I personally still haven't decided.
On reflection though paying £3k for essentially 8 years/100k warranty on a £71k car seems pretty reasonable. If it was a Lexus I wouldn't bother but its not a Lexus.
But reliability isn't the sole determinant of a car for me, if it was I would just get a RX. I've experienced nothing in our X so far thats put me off longterm ownership, it is still however early days, which is why an extended warranty is been considered.
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd September 06:44
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd September 06:45
xjay1337 said:
When you put it like that, it seems a rip off.
The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
The warranty isn't with tesla but a 3rd party. The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
The X is hugely complicated car.
With the extended warranty, remember that it's in addition to your rights under the Consumer Rights Act. So even a lot of the interior etc. is covered for free by that anyway. It's hard to imagine a fault which Tesla wouldn't be obliged to fix or contribute substantially to that would end up costing you more than the cost of the warranty.
As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
kuro68k said:
With the extended warranty, remember that it's in addition to your rights under the Consumer Rights Act. So even a lot of the interior etc. is covered for free by that anyway. It's hard to imagine a fault which Tesla wouldn't be obliged to fix or contribute substantially to that would end up costing you more than the cost of the warranty.
As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
We're talking about a warranty that kicks in after 4 years/50k miles, I think even under consumer law you'd have fun trying to suggest a warn seat wasn't fit for purpose.As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
The only time you might have some success is a part that can be demonstrated to be a design defect, the door handles being the nearest to that class.
The screen defect is a discolouration, its still functional. you couldn't take a car back after 4 year saying the paint had faded on a plastic part and expect a replacement, so what does "broken" mean?. There's a second MCU issue related to memory failing that is more ambiguous and thats still playing out, the choice of components suggests the part could fail,. but again, whats premature? If it ran for 100k miles and 6 years is that ok? You'd thow away any other consumer goods after 6 years if they started to fail.
Andeh1 said:
Interestibg write up!
How does the dealer network work for services etc, do you find you need to travel much further then the normal "main dealer" network?
First few visits I opted to go to Milton Keynes (from Leicester) as there was some excitement about seeing lots of Teslas, but when I got bored of that I had courtesy cars delivered to my home address whilst they collected mine, also 'ranger' visits to fix things on my drive.How does the dealer network work for services etc, do you find you need to travel much further then the normal "main dealer" network?
I think Tesla may have stopped doing the courtesy car drop off and collect service at your home address, but luckily not needed any service centre visits for a while now.
TTmonkey said:
OP you say it’s not perfect, what don’t you like, what would you change?
Personally I hate touch screens, not sure I could live with it.
Touch screen is fab, its so much better than any other infotainment system I've used, even the web browser is now fairly functional.Personally I hate touch screens, not sure I could live with it.
Worst is the 'worry' about reliability, on my BMW it was a case of every single squeak/drop of liquid on the driveway would send me searching for the next mechanical breakdown. Our Lexus on the otherhand I cannot even remember ever checking the oil dip stick!
The Tesla isn't as bad as the BMW when it comes to trying to anticipate failures, but neither do I have the same confidence that nothing will go wrong.....
Put it another way if I got in the car tomorrow and something catastrophic broke it wouldn't surprise or even annoy me, its never happened but am pretty sure it will happen at some point.
If Lexus built an EV like the X, or even any EVs at all I would swap our X for it without much thought.
I doubt the EVs Jaguar/Audi/Merc are coming out with are any better than Tesla on the reliability front. Reliability for me isn't 100% top of my car priority list but its not far off, the X does enough of the good stuff for me to put with any issues (or even worry about issues), but if offered a more reliable package I wouldn't turn it down.
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd September 09:55
RobDickinson said:
xjay1337 said:
When you put it like that, it seems a rip off.
The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
The warranty isn't with tesla but a 3rd party. The interior barely has anything, it's just some seats and trim. the rest is done in the infotainment system.
Either they are making it expensive because it's an expensive car. Or they are saying they have no faith im their work!
The X is hugely complicated car.
The screen is a moot point - I don't see how a screen itself can be £3000 , it probably costs £500 to make and produce. I've actually done a little research and someone in the US had the screen replaced for around $2300 in March of 2019
Nevertheless given even "cheap" Korean car manufacturers offer unlimited mileage, 7 year warranties .
Even Vauxhall of all companies have a "lifetime" warranty (I know there are some clauses to this, but never the less)
For the money you pay for a Tesla (which is substantial by the way) I would expect a better manufacturer warranty, 50k seems pathetic and doing my research on the screen cost there seems to be a lot of Model S and X owners who are having screen problems and other general trim related problems.
I really like the idea of the Tesla, I think it's the closest we have to an actual usable long distance electric car but certainly the interior to me seems very poor given the cost.
xjay1337 said:
For the money you pay for a Tesla (which is substantial by the way) I would expect a better manufacturer warranty, 50k seems pathetic......
........ but certainly the interior to me seems very poor given the cost.
You seem to have confused the £ cost of the car with reliability. Do BMW/Audi/Merc offer any better new car warranty? Even Lexus is only 3 years and 60k......... but certainly the interior to me seems very poor given the cost.
If you want reliable buy a Kia/Nissan/Toyota, they are far better value cars and last much better. A Kona EV has more range than our X for half the cost, but I still rather drive our X
.As for interior 'feel' its all subjective, our other car is a Lexus and the Tesla for me is the much nicer to be in. Equally I've been in plenty of Audis all of them seem pretty on par with Tesla.
If you don't like the interior of the Tesla don't buy one, get an eTron or iPace or EQC, but just don't you think those cars are going to be any more reliable. There's a thread on here about how Audi UK advises stopping by the side of the road for 30 minutes is the solution to having wing mirrors that dont work properly.....Not the kind of problem you would expect in a Dacia Sandero which will cost less than just the options list on an eTron!
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd September 10:25
xjay1337 said:
I do understand it is complicated. However I don't think it's as complicated as is being made out. In many ways it's probably less complicated than an ICE car given you given you don't have an engine.
The screen is a moot point - I don't see how a screen itself can be £3000 , it probably costs £500 to make and produce. I've actually done a little research and someone in the US had the screen replaced for around $2300 in March of 2019
Nevertheless given even "cheap" Korean car manufacturers offer unlimited mileage, 7 year warranties .
Even Vauxhall of all companies have a "lifetime" warranty (I know there are some clauses to this, but never the less)
For the money you pay for a Tesla (which is substantial by the way) I would expect a better manufacturer warranty, 50k seems pathetic and doing my research on the screen cost there seems to be a lot of Model S and X owners who are having screen problems and other general trim related problems.
I really like the idea of the Tesla, I think it's the closest we have to an actual usable long distance electric car but certainly the interior to me seems very poor given the cost.
The "screen" isn't the best description - the screen itself as you sugegst is a lot less, crica £1k to replace, the MCU, the computer behind that is a different beast as it does quite a lot, almost the heart of the car, and they've chosen slightly dodgy memory modules that seem to have a limited number of write cycles and there are some reports of the computer failing. This is a more siginficant component than just a display and more expensive.The screen is a moot point - I don't see how a screen itself can be £3000 , it probably costs £500 to make and produce. I've actually done a little research and someone in the US had the screen replaced for around $2300 in March of 2019
Nevertheless given even "cheap" Korean car manufacturers offer unlimited mileage, 7 year warranties .
Even Vauxhall of all companies have a "lifetime" warranty (I know there are some clauses to this, but never the less)
For the money you pay for a Tesla (which is substantial by the way) I would expect a better manufacturer warranty, 50k seems pathetic and doing my research on the screen cost there seems to be a lot of Model S and X owners who are having screen problems and other general trim related problems.
I really like the idea of the Tesla, I think it's the closest we have to an actual usable long distance electric car but certainly the interior to me seems very poor given the cost.
MX doors are pretty complicated, and the car is riddeled with sensors and cameras - the doors have a fairly unique proximity detector that is behind the panel, not built into it like a front or rear bumper sensor - these were problematic at first, but either way, they're probably not a £5 ebay replacement as they're pretty specialist, and fail to replace the doors will open into walls and ceilings. Some MX have auto opening and closing doors, more to go wrong.
The motor and battery is the easy bit
Heres Johnny said:
kuro68k said:
With the extended warranty, remember that it's in addition to your rights under the Consumer Rights Act. So even a lot of the interior etc. is covered for free by that anyway. It's hard to imagine a fault which Tesla wouldn't be obliged to fix or contribute substantially to that would end up costing you more than the cost of the warranty.
As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
We're talking about a warranty that kicks in after 4 years/50k miles, I think even under consumer law you'd have fun trying to suggest a warn seat wasn't fit for purpose.As for the screen, if you demand it Tesla will keep replacing it for free with duff ones until they come up with a proper fix.
...
Teslas history shows they have the 'happy to go to court rather than payup, even when wrong' attitude.
Kuro, if Walmart can't get an agreement from Tesla for their faulty solar panels, then a normal consumer best not hold his breath!
hyphen said:
Teslas history shows they have the 'happy to go to court rather than payup, even when wrong' attitude.
Thats not really a Tesla issue, more industry wide refusal to take responsibility for badly made/designed products.Google 'BMW' and 'Class action lawsuit'
Tesla in my experience offers a similar ownership package to what you can expect from BMW and co, which is not saying much to be honest.
gangzoom said:
Thats not really a Tesla issue, more industry wide refusal to take responsibility for badly made/designed products.
Google 'BMW' and 'Class action lawsuit'
Tesla in my experience offers a similar ownership package to what you can expect from BMW and co, which is not saying much to be honest.
long dead is the time car manufacturers gave a monkeys about their buyers, ruled by accountants they are now Google 'BMW' and 'Class action lawsuit'
Tesla in my experience offers a similar ownership package to what you can expect from BMW and co, which is not saying much to be honest.
Heres Johnny said:
The "screen" isn't the best description - the screen itself as you sugegst is a lot less, crica £1k to replace, the MCU, the computer behind that is a different beast as it does quite a lot, almost the heart of the car, and they've chosen slightly dodgy memory modules that seem to have a limited number of write cycles and there are some reports of the computer failing. This is a more siginficant component than just a display and more expensive.
MX doors are pretty complicated, and the car is riddeled with sensors and cameras - the doors have a fairly unique proximity detector that is behind the panel, not built into it like a front or rear bumper sensor - these were problematic at first, but either way, they're probably not a £5 ebay replacement as they're pretty specialist, and fail to replace the doors will open into walls and ceilings. Some MX have auto opening and closing doors, more to go wrong.
The motor and battery is the easy bit
Ah I see, fair enough. The "MCU" as it's called seems to have some design flaws then!!MX doors are pretty complicated, and the car is riddeled with sensors and cameras - the doors have a fairly unique proximity detector that is behind the panel, not built into it like a front or rear bumper sensor - these were problematic at first, but either way, they're probably not a £5 ebay replacement as they're pretty specialist, and fail to replace the doors will open into walls and ceilings. Some MX have auto opening and closing doors, more to go wrong.
The motor and battery is the easy bit
Heres Johnny said:
We're talking about a warranty that kicks in after 4 years/50k miles, I think even under consumer law you'd have fun trying to suggest a warn seat wasn't fit for purpose.
The only time you might have some success is a part that can be demonstrated to be a design defect, the door handles being the nearest to that class.
The screen defect is a discolouration, its still functional. you couldn't take a car back after 4 year saying the paint had faded on a plastic part and expect a replacement, so what does "broken" mean?. There's a second MCU issue related to memory failing that is more ambiguous and thats still playing out, the choice of components suggests the part could fail,. but again, whats premature? If it ran for 100k miles and 6 years is that ok? You'd thow away any other consumer goods after 6 years if they started to fail.
That's not how the law works. Goods must also be of "reasonable quality" and "last a reasonable length of time".The only time you might have some success is a part that can be demonstrated to be a design defect, the door handles being the nearest to that class.
The screen defect is a discolouration, its still functional. you couldn't take a car back after 4 year saying the paint had faded on a plastic part and expect a replacement, so what does "broken" mean?. There's a second MCU issue related to memory failing that is more ambiguous and thats still playing out, the choice of components suggests the part could fail,. but again, whats premature? If it ran for 100k miles and 6 years is that ok? You'd thow away any other consumer goods after 6 years if they started to fail.
Seats that were advertised as hard wearing wearing out after a few years would not be of reasonable quality in such an expensive car. That would be a design defect, they don't perform as advertised.
The screen yellowing is clearly a design defect that affects a large number of, if not all their vehicles of that era. While it's only cosmetic on a product this expensive where looks matter it would likely be covered, same as paint defects.
The flash memory failure is also clearly a design defect.
"Reasonable length of time" depends on the product, for a car costing around £90-100k clearly six years is ridiculous.
kuro68k said:
That's not how the law works. Goods must also be of "reasonable quality" and "last a reasonable length of time".
Seats that were advertised as hard wearing wearing out after a few years would not be of reasonable quality in such an expensive car. That would be a design defect, they don't perform as advertised.
The screen yellowing is clearly a design defect that affects a large number of, if not all their vehicles of that era. While it's only cosmetic on a product this expensive where looks matter it would likely be covered, same as paint defects.
The flash memory failure is also clearly a design defect.
"Reasonable length of time" depends on the product, for a car costing around £90-100k clearly six years is ridiculous.
What does "wear out" mean? Creased, some marks where a buckle has been rubbing? Where you get in and out of the car the side bolster wears a bit thin. Rub marks where a child seat was fitted. Stiching coming apart on a seam. The counter argument is user abuse. I'd argue even the heated seats failing in the 5th year wouldn't be covered.Seats that were advertised as hard wearing wearing out after a few years would not be of reasonable quality in such an expensive car. That would be a design defect, they don't perform as advertised.
The screen yellowing is clearly a design defect that affects a large number of, if not all their vehicles of that era. While it's only cosmetic on a product this expensive where looks matter it would likely be covered, same as paint defects.
The flash memory failure is also clearly a design defect.
"Reasonable length of time" depends on the product, for a car costing around £90-100k clearly six years is ridiculous.
After 4 years the onous would be on you, the consumer, to prove that they were not of a suitable quality not on them to prove they were.
You'd have more of a claim over the latest Teslaism where they say seats are only designed for a max 100kg person. That must be a laugh if it ever got into an Amercian court room.
There's no "clearly" on any of this. The MCU memory failure is a hypothesis put forward by somebody who opened one up. Many many many don't fail therefore Tesla argument would be its "clearly" not a design defect otherwise they all would.
Interesting read. I think with Tesla's its hit and miss with quality. My father in law has a P85 and despite it being on its 3rd set of batteries (its 2.5 years old) and having other problems he wouldnt have anything else. Certainly they have a strong appeal to some.
I had it for two weeks when he went away and I just didnt like it. Several times I couldn't even get in it (door handles not functioning) and once the main touchscreen just went blank and I couldnt really control anything in the car. Turning it off and on didnt cure it but strangely leaving it off all night did. I also noticed some horrendous inconsistent panel gaps on his car. and more squeaks and creaks than any 2.5 year old car should have.
Alot of the updates that come through to the car (isnt this annoying?) seem to be pointless things. I dont really need my car to do a far noise for example. Also they 'stole' some range by one of these updates recently - bit like Ford coming round and swapping your fuel tank out for a smaller one. Its no longer what your purchased - have you been impacted by this?
What I would say is respect for being a Tesla owner and no doubt a fan but not ramming it down our throats or wanting to take our heads off at the slightest criticism of these cars! Kudos to you sir!
I had it for two weeks when he went away and I just didnt like it. Several times I couldn't even get in it (door handles not functioning) and once the main touchscreen just went blank and I couldnt really control anything in the car. Turning it off and on didnt cure it but strangely leaving it off all night did. I also noticed some horrendous inconsistent panel gaps on his car. and more squeaks and creaks than any 2.5 year old car should have.
Alot of the updates that come through to the car (isnt this annoying?) seem to be pointless things. I dont really need my car to do a far noise for example. Also they 'stole' some range by one of these updates recently - bit like Ford coming round and swapping your fuel tank out for a smaller one. Its no longer what your purchased - have you been impacted by this?
What I would say is respect for being a Tesla owner and no doubt a fan but not ramming it down our throats or wanting to take our heads off at the slightest criticism of these cars! Kudos to you sir!
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