Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)

[Heres Johnny]

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

He was asked to block Russian news sites over Starlink, a relatively small gesture when you consider companies like Microsoft have withdrawn completely, but no.. he’s happy to carry on supporting the spread of propaganda.

Not sure if serious....

Totally serious.

Musky said:

Sorry to be a free speech absolutist……. all news sources are partially propaganda

I can see his point in a very limited capacity way, but I think exceptions are worth making. Meanwhile he’s still baiting Biden at every opportunity.

[ZesPak]

Heres Johnny said:

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

He was asked to block Russian news sites over Starlink, a relatively small gesture when you consider companies like Microsoft have withdrawn completely, but no.. he’s happy to carry on supporting the spread of propaganda.

Not sure if serious....

Totally serious.

Yeah, so on top of providing internet he should control which sources they get. An American corporation censoring the internet in ex-soviet war territory. Imagine the backlash if he would do that.
I can't believe any billionaire still bothers doing any philanthropy with all these idiots trying to find something "wrong" in every move they make.

[Heres Johnny]

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

He was asked to block Russian news sites over Starlink, a relatively small gesture when you consider companies like Microsoft have withdrawn completely, but no.. he’s happy to carry on supporting the spread of propaganda.

Not sure if serious....

Totally serious.

Yeah, so on top of providing internet he should control which sources they get. An American corporation censoring the internet in ex-soviet war territory. Imagine the backlash if he would do that.
I can't believe any billionaire still bothers doing any philanthropy with all these idiots trying to find something "wrong" in every move they make.

He was asked to block state sponsored propaganda in the same way he was asked to provide starlink, he's refusing the one, he's using the other as a marketing opportunity. What he was asked to do was not really any different to facebook taking down certain content, google doing the same, if you're a provider of a service then you carry certain obligations.

[jason61c]

Heres Johnny said:

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

ZesPak said:

Heres Johnny said:

He was asked to block Russian news sites over Starlink, a relatively small gesture when you consider companies like Microsoft have withdrawn completely, but no.. he’s happy to carry on supporting the spread of propaganda.

Not sure if serious....

Totally serious.

Yeah, so on top of providing internet he should control which sources they get. An American corporation censoring the internet in ex-soviet war territory. Imagine the backlash if he would do that.
I can't believe any billionaire still bothers doing any philanthropy with all these idiots trying to find something "wrong" in every move they make.

He was asked to block state sponsored propaganda in the same way he was asked to provide starlink, he's refusing the one, he's using the other as a marketing opportunity. What he was asked to do was not really any different to facebook taking down certain content, google doing the same, if you're a provider of a service then you carry certain obligations.

imagine if he'd done that to the US and UK when under bush and Blair, they were on the news telling lies about WMD's etc etc etc.

[Smiljan]

I’m with him on this one. If he won’t censor to their request they can just say thanks and not use the system.

Given he’s warned them not use it much anyway as it’s easily targeted by the military I don’t see much point in it being deployed there at all.

[Heres Johnny]

Facebook, twitter etc all removing fake russia news, and we all know Facebook are hardly quick to act

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/28/22954451/facebo...

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-twi...

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083633239/facebook...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/28/face...

But not Musky, no no.. but he doesn't mind pendling his own fake news at every opportunity.

[SWoll]

Heres Johnny said:

He was asked to block state sponsored propaganda in the same way he was asked to provide starlink, he's refusing the one, he's using the other as a marketing opportunity. What he was asked to do was not really any different to facebook taking down certain content, google doing the same, if you're a provider of a service then you carry certain obligations.

You appreciate the difference between offering a means of communication and censoring one though? You may well be right with regards to the marketing opportunity but with the amount of virtue signaling currently going on he'd hardly be alone in that?

Facebook, google, twitter blocking content they don't like has nothing to do with obligation, other than to a particular agenda, or it would be a lot more consistent in its application.

The exceptions argument is a slippery slope, who's going to be the arbiter?

[Heres Johnny]

The arbiter? Who decides when to give a load of free internet access stuff or make supercharging free? The opposite side to the same coin. You take a view whether you agree with the invasion of a country and the banning of any journalism that isn’t written in the hand of the gov or not. I understand the slippery slope argument but he’s also a man that has no qualms in taking on any western power be that Biden, the SEC or a English cave rescuer, but he can’t bring himself to stopping the Russia propaganda machine even through his kit in Russia?

[hyphen]

Heres Johnny said:

The arbiter? Who decides when to give a load of free internet access stuff...

A traditional US CEO when the Ukranians PM tweeted him would have replied saying along lines of the company is firmly against the war and upon instruction from the US government would send the equipment and then let the US government agree it with Ukraine, and take responsibility for transporting it too.

Musk is having one on one calls with the Ukranian PM. It puts Spacex and Tesla at risk of retaliation, Musk and his staff in potential danger and so on.

Best to stay out of politics, tomorrow Russia could make a deal with Ukraine, putin could stay in power and Russia and Belrus could hold a grudge against Musk.

Ford and Co ceased trading in Russia, Musk though is directly supporting the war effort. On a personal basis, this will look great for Musk and he will get a lot of respect for it, and history books will mention him for it. As he is taking the credit for it, rather than being diplomatic publicly whilst doing it quietly.

Edited by hyphen on Sunday 6th March 12:00

[JonChalk]

hyphen said:

Heres Johnny said:

The arbiter? Who decides when to give a load of free internet access stuff...

A traditional US CEO when the Ukranians PM tweeted him would have replied saying along lines of the company is firmly against the war and upon instruction from the US government would send the equipment and then let the US government agree it with Ukraine, and take responsibility for transporting it too.

Musk is having one on one calls with the Ukranian PM. It puts Spacex and Tesla at risk of retaliation, Musk and his staff in potential danger and so on.

Best to stay out of politics, tomorrow Russia could make a deal with Ukraine, putin could stay in power and Russia and Belrus could hold a grudge against Musk.

Ford and Co ceased trading in Russia, Musk though is directly supporting the war effort. On a personal basis, this will look great for Musk and he will get a lot of respect for it, and history books will mention him for it. As he is taking the credit for it, rather than being diplomatic publicly whilst doing it quietly.

Edited by hyphen on Sunday 6th March 12:00

Do we know if Tesla have stopped selling / exporting cars to Russia? Not seen any news reports on it unlike VW, Mercedes, JLR and GM. And a few others I can't remember.

[off_again]

JonChalk said:

Do we know if Tesla have stopped selling / exporting cars to Russia? Not seen any news reports on it unlike VW, Mercedes, JLR and GM. And a few others I can't remember.

Don’t know, but the Russian market is tiny for EV’s and there are reportedly less than 1000 EV’s there. And let’s be honest here, a lot of the more expensive cars in Russian are “unofficial” anyway.

Though there are calls to turn off what limited Superchargers are there though, but the impact would be minimal at best. But with the sanctions now in place, all effective sales and servicing operations will now not be possible.

[JonChalk]

Not only is Zelenskyy turning into an excellent leader, but he's not forgotten how he got there:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1500396117384704001

[hyphen]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15003300682282...

[hyphen]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15007404611154...

[Heres Johnny]

hyphen said:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/15003300682282...

Somebody needs to tell the cars that

[off_again]

NDA said:

off_again said:

I bought a car for half the price and was dealt with in a much better and professional way.

Try buying a new Lamborghini - their service was so bad I took them to court. And won.

The service from Tesla, on the other hand, has been superb and the car fault free.

I am pleased that you are having a positive experience with your Tesla, thats excellent. And I am sorry that your experience with Lamborghini was poor; that must be very disappointing! However, multiple buyers guides and independent reports do hit Tesla hard for their customer service. It is patchy to say the least. What is weird is that some really rate their service while others have been utterly disappointing. Its this variability that is the bad part. For a brand that is trying to do so much, to leave behind customer service simply isnt good enough. This would be bad if you are trying to sell $35k cars, but when this extends to $130k cars, there is massive gap in what they should be doing.

What disappoints me the most is that these reputations will haunt brands for years, if not decades. What they are doing now will set the mould and I really dont want them to have this view from consumers. Tesla has done so well in so many areas - efficiency, range, crash safety etc - but to fail in something like this shows that they still have some way to go. Tesla can make a car go further and faster on less batteries than competitors - but cant ship a car with the same tires on the front and back? Thats really disappointing.

[skwdenyer]

Heres Johnny said:

Facebook, twitter etc all removing fake russia news, and we all know Facebook are hardly quick to act

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/28/22954451/facebo...

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-twi...

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083633239/facebook...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/28/face...

But not Musky, no no.. but he doesn't mind pendling his own fake news at every opportunity.

When Musk starts running a platform upon which others can create and distribute content, you'll have a point. However, Musk is just providing internet service.

Should UK ISPs block RT etc so that UK viewers cannot see them? Do we think that sets a good precedent?

[off_again]

Heres Johnny said:

The arbiter? Who decides when to give a load of free internet access stuff or make supercharging free? The opposite side to the same coin. You take a view whether you agree with the invasion of a country and the banning of any journalism that isn’t written in the hand of the gov or not. I understand the slippery slope argument but he’s also a man that has no qualms in taking on any western power be that Biden, the SEC or a English cave rescuer, but he can’t bring himself to stopping the Russia propaganda machine even through his kit in Russia?

You have to separate some of the other things that Musk has done from the supply of Starlink to Ukraine. Yes, Musk is a tit, and we must call him out for that. But Starlink is a provider of technology and not a screening service for messages that arent wanted. They arent in a position to do this and hence arent going to do it. The platform providers (Twitter, Facebook etc) have a lot more data about what is coming from where and can provide some screening capability. From an ISP point of view? Yeah, this is going to be a constant game of 'whac-a-mole'. This isnt a case of just blocking access to sites with the .ru domain - this is an area in which I have a lot of experience and knowledge in.

Also, screening this stuff out isnt necessarily a good idea either. From an intelligence point of view, it makes sense to be able to access, view and counter the propaganda that is being churned out.

[NDA]

off_again said:

I am pleased that you are having a positive experience with your Tesla, thats excellent. And I am sorry that your experience with Lamborghini was poor; that must be very disappointing! However, multiple buyers guides and independent reports do hit Tesla hard for their customer service. It is patchy to say the least. What is weird is that some really rate their service while others have been utterly disappointing. Its this variability that is the bad part. For a brand that is trying to do so much, to leave behind customer service simply isnt good enough. This would be bad if you are trying to sell $35k cars, but when this extends to $130k cars, there is massive gap in what they should be doing.

What disappoints me the most is that these reputations will haunt brands for years, if not decades. What they are doing now will set the mould and I really dont want them to have this view from consumers. Tesla has done so well in so many areas - efficiency, range, crash safety etc - but to fail in something like this shows that they still have some way to go. Tesla can make a car go further and faster on less batteries than competitors - but cant ship a car with the same tires on the front and back? Thats really disappointing.

My tyres all matched.

I have a theory on the customer service thing - and I expect to be shot for saying this! But it strikes me that there are an awful lot of bobble hats buying EV's. They arrive at Tesla with a 349 point check list and micrometers to measure panel gaps. They are there for hours taking delivery as it's probably the first new car they've bought.

I say this partly tongue in cheek. But I know from reading a few EV forums that they are, by and large, a slightly different buyer to me. My customer service experience has been far better than Aston Martin for example - and indeed Bentley.

Maybe I've got a lucky face or something.

I am sounding like a bit of a fan. I am genuinely not - just saying as I find. Happy with great service and always hacked off when it's poor.

[off_again]

NDA said:

off_again said:

I am pleased that you are having a positive experience with your Tesla, thats excellent. And I am sorry that your experience with Lamborghini was poor; that must be very disappointing! However, multiple buyers guides and independent reports do hit Tesla hard for their customer service. It is patchy to say the least. What is weird is that some really rate their service while others have been utterly disappointing. Its this variability that is the bad part. For a brand that is trying to do so much, to leave behind customer service simply isnt good enough. This would be bad if you are trying to sell $35k cars, but when this extends to $130k cars, there is massive gap in what they should be doing.

What disappoints me the most is that these reputations will haunt brands for years, if not decades. What they are doing now will set the mould and I really dont want them to have this view from consumers. Tesla has done so well in so many areas - efficiency, range, crash safety etc - but to fail in something like this shows that they still have some way to go. Tesla can make a car go further and faster on less batteries than competitors - but cant ship a car with the same tires on the front and back? Thats really disappointing.

My tyres all matched.

I have a theory on the customer service thing - and I expect to be shot for saying this! But it strikes me that there are an awful lot of bobble hats buying EV's. They arrive at Tesla with a 349 point check list and micrometers to measure panel gaps. They are there for hours taking delivery as it's probably the first new car they've bought.

I say this partly tongue in cheek. But I know from reading a few EV forums that they are, by and large, a slightly different buyer to me. My customer service experience has been far better than Aston Martin for example - and indeed Bentley.

Maybe I've got a lucky face or something.

I am sounding like a bit of a fan. I am genuinely not - just saying as I find. Happy with great service and always hacked off when it's poor.

Actually you make a fair point here - knowing who your buyers are is key and it is shifting. It was once the 'early adopters' but now with the mass market acceptance, its shifting (mentioned here before around the 'crossing the chasm' thing). Buyers previously would be happy to skip over a few build quality issues for what they are buying into - but as it shifts to the larger market, a lot of consumers just wont put up with it. Not everyone who drops $50k on an EV is prepared to put up with it. Thats a lot of money for the majority of people in this market and they want the best - something that I cannot argue against.

Are Tesla buyers on the spectrum? I suspect there is some, but a lot of this is self-fulfilling. With constant battering and examples of bad build quality, the public interpretation is that its bad everywhere - which it is not. Now we get a lot of Tesla buyers digging in on this. What makes this damning is that even a lot of the early adopters are offering advice about checking out the cars before collection! Of course you should do this anyway, but offering specific advice on what to look for and where - mainly because they know that fixing this later is a nightmare! How many times have we heard about the issues around after sales service? Like I said, this is setting the standard and public impression for their cars - and one that competitors will take advantage of. So yeah, I am sure a lot of Tesla buyers are going to extremes on collection - why wouldnt they? Its their money and they want the best that they can get.

And I will keep saying this - Tesla doesnt sell bad cars. If they were terrible it would be easy, but they arent. I want them to be successful because it pushes everyone else to do better! I absolutely dont want to end up in a second malaise era of cars. I want the best that we can get. That means everyone needs to focus on the best products, quality, aftermarket service and overall ownership experience. We shouldnt ever have to settle for second best.

Oh, and yes, my car also got delivered with the correct tires all around... and they were perfectly balanced and with the correct pressures too!