Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

[raspy]

Smint said:

Camry from the 90's and before was a superb and highly respected car by those who drove and owned them, still is though for years we couldn;t buy one here, but despite how good it was and is it just didn't sell in great numbers here, my own opinion it should have had a decent automatic Diesel and estate car options which would have made all the difference, wanter under the bridge.

Much of the problem with the UK and many other markets is pure badge snobbery, something alive and well in everything from cars to jcareers to phones to watches to clothes labels and postcodes, when Toyota built the superb original LS400 they knew it wouldn't be accepted on the same l;evel no matter how good it was by Merc or BMW buyers/reviewers (or rather the right image of what to be seen in) as a top level vehicle with that Toyota badge despite being a better built and far more durable car than equivalents from those makers, hence Toyota sensibly created Lexus and set up separate dealerships with class leading customer service.

Lexus and the original LS400 was designed for Wealthy Americans (a lot of their market research was in California) rather than for UK/Europe.

What are their two biggest markets today? USA and China. Europe as a whole is a much smaller market for them and the UK is a tiny market (relatively speaking)

Lexus sold 4 times as many cars in the USA last year than they did across all of Europe! They sold 3 times as many cars in China than across all of Europe. It's only once you've owned and lived with a Lexus for a while (including the dealers) do you appreciate the cars and the customer service.

Yeah, the badge snobbery in this country is comical and totally irrational. Consider that, in the United States, except for 2001, the Camry was the best-selling passenger car from 1997 through 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry#Sales

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/lexus/36815721.h...

[carparkno1]

Funny thread this. I think of Lexus as Lexus. I know they have Toyota as a parent company, but sit in an LC500 or RCF and you won't think be thinking of Toyota. Regardless, the cars are manufactured to a higher tolerance, reliability and dealership experience is untouched.

Now if I sit in a Tiguan, it's just an Ateca with £50 of extra soft touch plastics, and £100 more than a Karoq. The VW group at that level are the Kings of rebadging without really improving on quality across the brands.

A Lexus feels miles away from a Toyota in quality, and the Toyotas aren't bad to start with.

[Tabs]

Well, I just love my Lexus RC300h hybrid. It just exudes quality.
I've had many Toyotas, and this is a whole step above them.
Quality comparisons are like what a Mercedes 201 and 124 were like in the eighties and nineties before the accounts swooped in.
They were far better quality than the current Mercedes offerings.

[348jeff]

donkmeister said:

Total thread deviation but thanks for that - I've been totally unable to find a decent EPC for my Lexus but this is good.

Wonder if anyone has compared the UK and US engine parts to find out specifically which bits are replaced on the LS460 for E85 compatibility I've always assumed aluminium fuel rails are the culprit.

(ETA LS460 - in case my comment had anyone frantically searching if their Lexus could be used with E10... LS460s are not compatible with E10, and they did a recall in the US due to engine issues from running on E85)

Edited by donkmeister on Saturday 5th February 15:32

It used to be even better with pictures but some bizarre reason Toyota threatened legal action so all the pics were removed :-(

Dont forget to put your vin in at the beginning and it will the exact right parts for your Toyota...woops meant Lexus! ;-')

[Yahonza]

If it's all about semantics the answer is no.
Alternatively is a Toyota a debadged Lexus?? Probably not, although they definitely share parts.

None of the current crop of Lexus appeal to be honest.

[Lexmaster]

Until ~2006 they sold in japan the Lexus models under the Toyota name, so they kinda were rebadged although they did differ regarding the engines and equipment, which was sometimes better on the Toyota.
From my own experience of both brands, the perceived feel of quality is different, as is the dealer experience if you would have problems.
I think the great thing about Lexus is the fact that they share a lot of components with Toyota. A luxury car with a great interior but robust mechanical parts you would expect from a Toyota. I can only recommend them, especially with a nice V8

[Esceptico]

Swoxy said:

Do you think a Rolls Royce is just a BMW?

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

[Dr Jekyll]

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

BMW didn't buy the company VW did. BMW just got the right to put the name on cars.

[Dingu]

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

What a strange viewpoint.

So by your logic a Bugatti Veyron is a Skoda? They were developed by exactly the same company.

Edited by Dingu on Saturday 5th February 19:13

[Esceptico]

Dingu said:

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

What a strange viewpoint.

So by your logic a Bugatti Veyron is a Skoda? They were developed by exactly the same company.

Edited by Dingu on Saturday 5th February 19:13

As far as I know there is no connection at all between the original Bugatti and VW Bugatti. It is just a badge that the VW group put on the Veyron, which is 100% VW. I am not sure about Skoda. It was a functioning manufacturer when VW bought it but not sure what, if anything, has been carried over.

[Esceptico]

Dr Jekyll said:

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

BMW didn't buy the company VW did. BMW just got the right to put the name on cars.

Memory fail on my part. So current RR are just BMWs then.

[Leon R]

Lexus and toyota don't share any platforms do they?

[Dingu]

Esceptico said:

Dingu said:

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

What a strange viewpoint.

So by your logic a Bugatti Veyron is a Skoda? They were developed by exactly the same company.

Edited by Dingu on Saturday 5th February 19:13

As far as I know there is no connection at all between the original Bugatti and VW Bugatti. It is just a badge that the VW group put on the Veyron, which is 100% VW. I am not sure about Skoda. It was a functioning manufacturer when VW bought it but not sure what, if anything, has been carried over.

So you think they should have called it the Volkswagen Veyron?

[Tony33]

Leon R said:

Lexus and toyoya don't share any platforms do they?

I believe the RAV4 and Lexus NX share platforms - TNGA Toyota New Global Architecture

[SAS Tom]

Tony33 said:

Leon R said:

Lexus and toyoya don't share any platforms do they?

I believe the RAV4 and Lexus NX share platforms - TNGA Toyota New Global Architecture

I don’t know if they still do but the RX was based on a Camry platform using a Camry engine.

[kurokawa]

Tony33 said:

believe the RAV4 and Lexus NX share platforms - TNGA Toyota New Global Architecture

also
Toyota Alphard <=> Lexus LM
Toyota Auris/Corolla/Pruis(3rd Gen)/RAV4(4th Gen) <=> Lexus CT/NX(First Gen)
Toyota Carmy <=> Lexus ES
Toyota C-HR <=> Lexus UX
Toyota Crown <=> Lexus LS

[Esceptico]

Dingu said:

Esceptico said:

Dingu said:

Esceptico said:

When was Rolls Royce formed? How many cars were produced before the company was bought by BMW? How many staff remained after the acquisition? How independent is RR today? Do current RRs reflect decades of history of when RR was independent?

Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to decide. Not easy. Now apply similar to Lexus….er it was just an name invented by Toyota for their luxury cars they were selling overseas. No history. No independent existence. No staff. No design history that doesn’t come from Toyota.

What a strange viewpoint.

So by your logic a Bugatti Veyron is a Skoda? They were developed by exactly the same company.

Edited by Dingu on Saturday 5th February 19:13

As far as I know there is no connection at all between the original Bugatti and VW Bugatti. It is just a badge that the VW group put on the Veyron, which is 100% VW. I am not sure about Skoda. It was a functioning manufacturer when VW bought it but not sure what, if anything, has been carried over.

So you think they should have called it the Volkswagen Veyron?

VW correctly surmised that however impressive the Veyron was, far fewer people would have bought it had they stuck a VW badge on the back. So they resurrected the Bugatti name. The fact that you don’t seem to think it is a VW shows the power of brands and marketing.

The power of brands is amazing. When we moved back to the UK I bought a pack of Shreddies (nostalgia as used to eat them as a child). A few weeks later when I went to buy another pack I noticed that the supermarket’s own brand was half the price so bought those instead. Taste wasn’t exactly the same. Some time later they had a special deal on Shreddies making them about the same price as the own brand so I thought I would try them again but found that actually I preferred the home brand. (Then I realised that neither were particularly healthy as heavily processed and swapped to porridge).

[Dingu]

Esceptico said:

VW correctly surmised that however impressive the Veyron was, far fewer people would have bought it had they stuck a VW badge on the back. So they resurrected the Bugatti name. The fact that you don’t seem to think it is a VW shows the power of brands and marketing.

The power of brands is amazing. When we moved back to the UK I bought a pack of Shreddies (nostalgia as used to eat them as a child). A few weeks later when I went to buy another pack I noticed that the supermarket’s own brand was half the price so bought those instead. Taste wasn’t exactly the same. Some time later they had a special deal on Shreddies making them about the same price as the own brand so I thought I would try them again but found that actually I preferred the home brand. (Then I realised that neither were particularly healthy as heavily processed and swapped to porridge).

I know it’s built by Volkswagen but it is about a similar to your Golf as a Learjet is.

Do you think Skoda, Seat, Audi, Lamborghini etc should all be done away with then? It’s all VW and pointless. Ditto the Stellanis group. We just can have less choice because branding is pointless?

That’s not the power of brands. The own brand cereal varieties are typically, though not always, lower quality.

[SkodaIan]

If you want to buy a rebadged Toyota, you need to buy a Suzuki.

Then the car you get really is identical, but with a silly name and a shorter warranty.

Lexus is a posh Toyota, which isn't a bad thing at all.

[hyphen]

Esceptico said:

VW correctly surmised that however impressive the Veyron was, far fewer people would have bought it had they stuck a VW badge on the back. So they resurrected the Bugatti name. The fact that you don’t seem to think it is a VW shows the power of brands and marketing.

It's not a VW. It's a standalone brand within the VAG group.