fuel pump fails in current production

[iKenndac]

This thread is very interesting.

My car (2019/Sweden) was never eligible for the fuel pump recall that happened in the UK and elsewhere a couple of years ago. I enquired at the dealer and was told that it might have a different pump to UK cars (apparently we have a bigger battery up here to handle the cold winters — indeed, I've never had a problem with the battery during long periods of not driving it in the winter, and I've never charged it).

A few weeks ago (i.e., May 2023), a letter arrived from France and lo and behold — fuel pump recall! It got a new pump a couple of weeks ago and some form of ECU reprogramming to go with it. The part number for the new pump was the same part number as the pump being fitted as part of the original recall in the UK.

Now I'm nervous I've got a duff one — we're driving down to Germany for a holiday before going to Spa for the F1 race in July… I hope it survives!

[jont-]

CharleyFarley66 said:

I've posted fuller details on the Alpine A110 Owners group Facebook page, but for those following this particular issue here, I'd like to add my own very recent - yesterday evening - experience, as it may point to the cause being something other than the fuel pump itself.

Sounds identical to mine. Still won't get it into the dealer unil the end of next week, I'm just hoping it's not a "we've cleared the fault codes but can't find any underlying issue", it's going to take a little while to get faith back in the car regardless.

Will be interested to hear what yours says when they've looked at it.

[milfordkong]

fossett said:

If you can get there, maybe this is the answer.

https://www.mp-rezeau.fr/produit/pompe-a-essence-i...

This is interesting, I wondered if the aftermarket would offer a solution.... It's 5hrs from Calais, but it could be a fun trip!

[Miserablegit]

That might be the answer but I’m intrigued as to what the injector reprogramming apparently being undertaken by Alpine is.

[Miserablegit]

Have any 2018 PE suffered fuel pump failures? I’m aware of au’s failure in Australia but I can’t see any UK PE on the google spreadsheet.

My 2018 PE suffered the alternator fault- I’m just hoping I avoid the fuel pump fault- losing power without warning on entering a roundabout was one time too many for me.

[xondat]

CharleyFarley66 said:

That is, until about an hour later and everything had cooled down (and of course, after the Westbourne recovery truck was well on its way to Dorking, courtesy of my AXA breakdown policy via A-Plan insurance; but thanks anyway chaps!). I pressed the start/stop button and the engine fired up as normal, no warning lights or message, etc.

So now I'm as unclear as anyone else as to what's actually happening and what's causing the problem. From the various threads and posts here and on the Facebook page, it's clear that some (the actualnumber would be good to know) Alps of varying ages and mileages have just stopped, and been left stranded on the roadside or in one case, the middle of a motorway. Some others like mine have stopped and then later restarted.

My car had 3 failures. First two it restarted, third time it was done for. Just a heads up to get it fixed ASAP as it WILL break again.

It would be helpful to share this spreadsheet around and get as much entries as possible: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yh3tTKBsh6...

[fuzzy-si]

Looks like M-P Rezeau have also had a failure. Don't know if they are running the standard pump or their upgrade, but overheating electronics does sound like whats been happening here.

A little look back at the electrical issues we encountered at the Nürburgring a few days ago...
Simply the power module that drives the fuel pump in tension
An isolated case we think, but since this critter is made up in part of power transistors, we made it a little evolution...
A stand and two fans to make it easier to cool.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=...

[Whaleblue]

fuzzy-si said:

Looks like M-P Rezeau have also had a failure. Don't know if they are running the standard pump or their upgrade, but overheating electronics does sound like whats been happening here.

A little look back at the electrical issues we encountered at the Nürburgring a few days ago...
Simply the power module that drives the fuel pump in tension
An isolated case we think, but since this critter is made up in part of power transistors, we made it a little evolution...
A stand and two fans to make it easier to cool.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=...

Following that link further down there’s this (translated):

MP Rezeau
…we don't use the standard pump because it requires very good quality fuel that we don't often have

Edited by Whaleblue on Thursday 22 June 08:17

[bcr5784]

Whaleblue said:

Following that link further down there’s this (translated):

MP Rezeau
…we don't use the standard pump because it requires very good quality fuel that we don't often have

Edited by Whaleblue on Thursday 22 June 08:17

Seems an odd thing to say - do they really have worse fuel over there?

It would be interesting to know whether there is any correlation between fuel pump failures and fuel used. Personally use 99 octane exclusively if available (which it almost invariably is) - but that is about 50% Tesco Momentum 50% V-Power. No failure yet.....

[a110au]

fuzzy-si said:

Looks like M-P Rezeau have also had a failure. Don't know if they are running the standard pump or their upgrade, but overheating electronics does sound like whats been happening here.

they definitely run their own pump upgrade and perhaps on track it draws more power..

[Whaleblue]

bcr5784 said:

Whaleblue said:

Following that link further down there’s this (translated):

MP Rezeau
…we don't use the standard pump because it requires very good quality fuel that we don't often have

Edited by Whaleblue on Thursday 22 June 08:17

Seems an odd thing to say - do they really have worse fuel over there?

It would be interesting to know whether there is any correlation between fuel pump failures and fuel used. Personally use 99 octane exclusively if available (which it almost invariably is) - but that is about 50% Tesco Momentum 50% V-Power. No failure yet.....

No idea about French fuel quality, I’d have assumed much the same as ours (UK). I topped up with Esso Synergy Supreme 99 when I got home, so currently half that and half French fuel! I intend to use either Esso 99 or Shell 99.

[milfordkong]

This is interesting, I have been told by an Alpine dealer that fuel quality may be a contributor, which even if it is the case is not ok ... but it'd be interesting to know what fuel those who have suffered failures have been running (even if they intermittently use the higher ethanol fuel for example).

[worldwidewebs]

milfordkong said:

This is interesting, I have been told by an Alpine dealer that fuel quality may be a contributor, which even if it is the case is not ok ... but it'd be interesting to know what fuel those who have suffered failures have been running (even if they intermittently use the higher ethanol fuel for example).

What a load of tosh - I don't believe that for 1 second. Unless of course all A110s fill up at the special 'rubbish fuel' pump specifically allocated to A110s.

Which dealer told you that, by the way?

[a110au]

another

[CharleyFarley66]

Just thought I'd add a couple more points, the first regarding fuel type: my Alp's always been treated to Shell V-Power. And the Shell Go app occasionally treats me to a £3 discount and the odd chocolate bar...

Next, after seeing the post this week about MP Rezeau's fuel starvation/fuel pump experience under what sounded like pretty warm (albeit racing) conditions, and the twin fan device as their solution to suspected overheating fuel pump electrics, I messaged them.

After establishing in our best Franglais that their device works for all fuel pumps, not just their own version, and that it'll be 99 euros once it's available in a couple of weeks' time, I've since ordered two - one for myself, one for another very concerned Alpine owner on the A110 Owners Facebook page - plus fitting instructions.

In the meanwhile, I've sort expert opinions about getting my nearest Alpine dealership to run an ECU diagnostic check (since I'd like to try to get to the bottom of the fuel starvation issue that occurred last Tuesday evening), and the risks of a reset to default wiping out my Life110 remap.

In the meantime, I think we can all agree that:
- Alpine really needs to investigate this issue itself, gathering all the information it can via its dealership network in the UK and Europe. Cars spluttering to an unexplained halt is high risk to life and limb, especially on the UK's smart(!) motorways, let alone busy A and B roads.
- Even if it's not sufficiently statistically significant for a product recall, Alpine should at the very least provide owners with a clear explanation of this issue: what's causing the sudden starvation, why some pumps have stopped working altogether, why some like mine have apparently sprung back to life, and of course what Alpine's recommended solution is.

[timbo999]

I might have missed it, but has anyone reported this issue to the DVSA?

https://contact-dvsa.service.gov.uk/report-vehicle...

I can't do it as it hasn't (yet) happended to me...

(Thanks to the Lotus Emira forums for bringing this up - its not just us!)

[Colin P]

A couple on this thread have reported, but I have not seen anything around the response that DVSA has given. It does say that they should be responding to the reporter as to what has happened.

[Colin P]

milfordkong said:

This is interesting, I have been told by an Alpine dealer that fuel quality may be a contributor, which even if it is the case is not ok ... but it'd be interesting to know what fuel those who have suffered failures have been running (even if they intermittently use the higher ethanol fuel for example).

If it’s an ethanol issue then likely that the rate of failures would have increased in the last couple of years. Do we know if this is the case?

[bcr5784]

Colin P said:

If it’s an ethanol issue then likely that the rate of failures would have increased in the last couple of years. Do we know if this is the case?

My impression (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it didn't occur in the first couple of years of production. That could, of course, mean it is ethanol related - but it may mean that cars produced in that timeframe had fuel pumps with a different spec/part number.

[a110au]

bcr5784 said:

My impression (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it didn't occur in the first couple of years of production. That could, of course, mean it is ethanol related - but it may mean that cars produced in that timeframe had fuel pumps with a different spec/part number.

a whole bunch of premier editions failed some before there was any pro active replacements by Alpine and some afterwards that did not get individually recalled.