Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
IforB said:
DoubleD said:
SUVs are very popular, people like them, so who are we to say otherwise?
Car enthusiasts who care about things like the Alpine A110 because it is a joy to drive. Unlike any SUV!Popularity is no indicator of quality after all!
What is or isn't a joy to drive is all a matter of opinion.
nickfrog said:
Yes sure 
I meant more like this where the clearance of estates/MPV prevented them to clear the small ridge. Even the Transporter in front struggled and scraped the undertray through the mud.
My Impreza estate was great at that kind of thing, though I must say I never got stuck in any of my other cars. Lots of fishing places are down muddy, rutted and potholed dirt tracks.I meant more like this where the clearance of estates/MPV prevented them to clear the small ridge. Even the Transporter in front struggled and scraped the undertray through the mud.
IforB said:
DoubleD said:
SUVs are very popular, people like them, so who are we to say otherwise?
Car enthusiasts who care about things like the Alpine A110 because it is a joy to drive. Unlike any SUV!Popularity is no indicator of quality after all!
Popularity is not an indicator of lack of quality either.
No need to think binarily.
bcr5784 said:
ettore said:
No, only better (or in fact equal) on the volume of seats. Everything else worse.
But as has been said an SUV will lose space to an MPV of the same size because of the extra ground clearance, the SUVs ride/handing will be compromised because of the higher centre of gravity and the packaging of the SUV will also be compromised to allow for 4wd. As I have repeatedly said if you need the extra ground clearance or 4wd then the SUV has advantage. But you don't need either 4wd or ground clearance for the school run or the sort of family holiday the majority of SUVs are used for.
ettore said:
bcr5784 said:
ettore said:
Hmmm - not so sure. I used to propound this argument when I had large estate cars (E350 and 535D). However I needed more seats - I was deeply prejudiced against SUV's but finally capitulated to wifely demand. I've had SUV's as the family wagon ever since.
Attempts to take MPVs up-market were minimal-effort, get-on-the-bandwagon stabs like the awful R-Class (a fudged rework of the original M-Class, no wonder it wasn’t up to much…) There are some very expensive MPVs but they’re vans with pimped interiors - strictly for executive airport cabbies.
If you’re looking at (say,) an X5 30d, or something upmarket of that, then there really isn’t an MPV equivalent. That’s a real shame because it would be a nice barge; elevated driving position, dynamically somewhere between a 5 and an X5, with an interior that was far more spacious and flexible than either of those.
ettore said:
MPV's are essentially overbloated hatchbacks that are insipid to drive, frequently underpowered, relatively uncomfortable and frankly a bit of a chore on a proper run. My RR remains a delight.
The reason for that (if true) is because of the popularity (fashion?) for SUVs has killed the possibility of a competing MPV. Reduce the ground clearance of an RR (but keep the overall height) and you will undeniably get more accommodation, it's just a matter of physics. Take out the 4wd and off road ability that most owners don't need (can't speak for you personally) and you could have something that was dynamically superior and didn't weigh around 2.5 tons.The S-Max (though decidedly long in the tooth now) certainly isnt a chore to drive and it certainly isn't an overbloated hatch. Clearly it doesn't compete directly with the RR - it's not much above a third the price - but it demonstrates that your criticisms of MPVs are simplistic. There is no reason why a 80-90k MPV couldnt be superior to drive than the RR - but no manufacturer would dare build one at the moment because of the image.
But fashions change (I hope).
DoubleD said:
Choice is a wonderful thing, of that I am sure we can all agree.
True - but the fashion for SUVs has, in effect, removed the possibility (choice) of a modern/stylish/dynamic/upmarket MPV. Some of us would like Alpine to produce such a vehicle - but I don't think I would be brave enough to sanction such a development if I were allocating the development spend.IforB said:
DoubleD said:
SUVs are very popular, people like them, so who are we to say otherwise?
Car enthusiasts who care about things like the Alpine A110 because it is a joy to drive. Unlike any SUV!Popularity is no indicator of quality after all!
Would I buy an MPV? Absolutely. As soon as they make one with a V8 and a luxurious interior. It’s not the shape or immense practicality that meant they were never on the radar but that they have been made by bottom end manufacturers for bottom end budgets. Seemingly the only supposedly premium MPV you can buy today is the Tesla X and that’s a badly built dog with a silly price tag that doesn’t like corners.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 14th September 16:56
bcr5784 said:
DoubleD said:
Choice is a wonderful thing, of that I am sure we can all agree.
True - but the fashion for SUVs has, in effect, removed the possibility (choice) of a modern/stylish/dynamic/upmarket MPV. Some of us would like Alpine to produce such a vehicle - but I don't think I would be brave enough to sanction such a development if I were allocating the development spend.MPVs always had a bit of an image problem, so its no surprise that they aren't so popular.
DoubleD said:
bcr5784 said:
DoubleD said:
Choice is a wonderful thing, of that I am sure we can all agree.
True - but the fashion for SUVs has, in effect, removed the possibility (choice) of a modern/stylish/dynamic/upmarket MPV. Some of us would like Alpine to produce such a vehicle - but I don't think I would be brave enough to sanction such a development if I were allocating the development spend.MPVs always had a bit of an image problem, so its no surprise that they aren't so popular.
IforB said:
Vans with windows are never cool.
No reason why MPVs should be vans (most of them aren't anyway) any more than SUVs need to be trucks. You have much more design freedom to make an MPV stylish when you don't have to worry about approach and departure angles and so can make overhangs as long as you think sensible.Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 14th September 17:56
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