Which PH'ers have placed a deposit on an Emira?

[av185]

AlexNJ89 said:

Another review saying it's lacking something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrw736jN5_s

Thanks for posting.

Decent honest review I thought.

Interesting comments concerning the 'average' steering in contrast to most other reviews especially as that car was sport with Cups.

I posted after spending a day in an Emira with sport chassis but Goodyears and found the steering good although slow to centre but nicely weighted overall and slightly more feel than the 981 and 718 GT4 and 718 GTS.

[rawenghey]

AlexNJ89 said:

Another review saying it's lacking something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrw736jN5_s

Another review that also says the Emira doesn't feel like anywhere near 400bhp and complain that the engine never feels like it gets going. Max also said in the video that he'd really struggle to walk away from a 718 GTS 4.0 and buy the Emira instead, primarily due to the drivetrain, which for me has always been the crux of the issue. If only they had a better engine to put in it. Kind of why I had high hopes for the AMG/DCT combo.

[av185]

Tend to think it rather depends on what exactly you want the Emira (V6) for.

Fine as a great looking weekend car to bumble around in doing maybe a 100 miles or so up to the Lakes or similar. Good ground clearance and not too wide for the narrow lanes.

But in terms of absolute driving dynamics this is when the GT4 and even GTS has the Emira well and truly beaten. Especially with their far superior much higher revving engines and better transmissions.

[bcr5784]

rawenghey said:

Another review that also says the Emira doesn't feel like anywhere near 400bhp and complain that the engine never feels like it gets going. Max also said in the video that he'd really struggle to walk away from a 718 GTS 4.0 and buy the Emira instead, primarily due to the drivetrain, which for me has always been the crux of the issue. If only they had a better engine to put in it. Kind of why I had high hopes for the AMG/DCT combo.

It's unclear to me why the Emira seems to be slower than Evora 400 by a much bigger margin than the extra weight (50kg) would lead you to believe. https://zeperfs.com/en/duel5638-10593.htm seems to confirm what some testers subjectively feel.

[rawenghey]

bcr5784 said:

rawenghey said:

Another review that also says the Emira doesn't feel like anywhere near 400bhp and complain that the engine never feels like it gets going. Max also said in the video that he'd really struggle to walk away from a 718 GTS 4.0 and buy the Emira instead, primarily due to the drivetrain, which for me has always been the crux of the issue. If only they had a better engine to put in it. Kind of why I had high hopes for the AMG/DCT combo.

It's unclear to me why the Emira seems to be slower than Evora 400 by a much bigger margin than the extra weight (50kg) would lead you to believe. https://zeperfs.com/en/duel5638-10593.htm seems to confirm what some testers subjectively feel.

I agree, only it's not just subjective perception, as the testers are backing it up with the numbers. Its performance figures are indicative of something with 300bhp.

AutomannTV did 100-200kph in 9.1s in a 400bhp manual GTS 4.0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBwjYdNg9NI)

AutoTopNL did the same measurement in 12.2s in 400bhp manual Emira (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt-2E-3JHJI)

AutoTopNL also did runs in a 718 Boxster T manual with the stock 300bhp and it ran 100-200 in 12.3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mad3ngC5AAM)

av185 said:

Tend to think it rather depends on what exactly you want the Emira (V6) for.

Fine as a great looking weekend car to bumble around in doing maybe a 100 miles or so up to the Lakes or similar. Good ground clearance and not too wide for the narrow lanes.

But in terms of absolute driving dynamics this is when the GT4 and even GTS has the Emira well and truly beaten. Especially with their far superior much higher revving engines and better transmissions.

Also agree with all of this. As an overall package the Emira V6 is very nice and of course you're not driving lap times and acceleration figures out there in the real world. I just think people are a little surprised by its relative lack of straight line performance, given it is pitched as a 718 GTS 4.0 rival.

Edited by rawenghey on Tuesday 29th August 17:16

[The Wookie]

Mine took a couple of thousand miles to loosen up, felt very underwhelming the first time I gave it the beans at the running in point but now feels as quick as it should with 3500 miles on it

[AlexNJ89]

Sounds like we need someone to get one on a dyno.

I would agree that it felt 300bhp.

Or as others have theorised about the i4 variant, there is an 'S' in the pipeline so the First Editions are detuned. Similar to how an M2 Comp is de-tuned so it isn't as fast as an M4.

Edited by AlexNJ89 on Tuesday 29th August 17:33

[bcr5784]

AlexNJ89 said:

Sounds like we need someone to get one on a dyno.

I would agree that it felt 300bhp.

Edited by AlexNJ89 on Tuesday 29th August 17:33

I think 300bhp is pessimistic. The V6 Emira has a very similar performance to the base (250bhp) A110 - see https://zeperfs.com/en/duel10593-6621.htm. Given the big weight and DCT advantage the Alpine has I'd have to conclude the Emira has a fair bit more than 300bhp - but difficult to tell how much more without seeing the torque curves.

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 29th August 19:28

[BertBert]

someone must have had one on a rolling road by now, surely?

[BertBert]

BertBert said:

someone must have had one on a rolling road by now, surely?

yes they have Bert, see here... https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/v6-fe-dyno-resu...

[BertBert]

It must be against some forum protocol, but three posts in a row...

The OP on that thread talks about the car feeling flat. My theory about this is that flat torque curves give that feeling. Firstly there is no increase in the rate of acceleration (jerk) which produces that "whoa" feeling, worse, the rate of acceleration slows as air resistance builds which is all an anti climax.

It's just like a plane takeoff. Initially it starts (at what 1/3rd throttle) which feels great. Then it goes to max thrust which feels really fab. Then it's gone, no more excitement.

Same as the S2000 torque (referenced as well), very flat, feels a bit dull, then the second cams (or however it works) kick in and whoosh, more jerk.

Anyway that's the Bertish theory of acceleration fun. Jerk, not acceleration is the key!

[Jon-f1zhn]

Its the gearbox that's the killer the ratios are too long this is the achilles heel of most modern performance cars. My old Sport 410 just fell like it was about to pick up and then you hit the limiter so it always kind of felt like the last 2 clicks of the handbrake were on all the time. I have had many cars with the tuning packages up to 460 Brake and quite honestly they don't feel that quick even with that power either. Plus its really heavy for a sports car.

The AMG looks to be the opposite it will be a riot with those short ratios. If they ever get to 400/450 type outputs on the AMG that could be the car that really challenges the Porsche stuff.

[av185]

Jon-f1zhn said:

Its the gearbox that's the killer the ratios are too long this is the achilles heel of most modern performance cars.

But the 718 GT4 'manuel' has relatively long gearbox ratios (c85mph in 2nd) but the car never feels performance or pick up is lacking nor does it ever feel as if it has less than its 420PS also it is actually quicker than the PDK once on the move with a higher top speed too presumably due to less weight and parasitic losses overall.

[The Wookie]

Ironically the reason why the Toyota V6 can feel like it never gets going because it keeps building power all the way up to the limiter whereas even something like a Cayman GTS 4.0 will plateau and actually drop off a bit as it gets there.

You can see it on that Dyno chart. The effect is that you have to wring every last rev out of it to get the performance.

[bcr5784]

The Wookie said:

Ironically the reason why the Toyota V6 can feel like it never gets going because it keeps building power all the way up to the limiter whereas even something like a Cayman GTS 4.0 will plateau and actually drop off a bit as it gets there.

You can see it on that Dyno chart. The effect is that you have to wring every last rev out of it to get the performance.

That may go some way to explaining why it feels slow - but doesn't explain why it actually IS so much slower than the Evora 400 (see above) or the 718 GTS 4.0 https://zeperfs.com/en/duel10593-8373.htm

[otolith]

bcr5784 said:

That may go some way to explaining why it feels slow - but doesn't explain why it actually IS so much slower than the Evora 400 (see above) or the 718 GTS 4.0 https://zeperfs.com/en/duel10593-8373.htm

9.3 seconds to 160km/h vs 10.5 seconds. You must have a finely calibrated butt-dyno.

[The Wookie]

bcr5784 said:

That may go some way to explaining why it feels slow - but doesn't explain why it actually IS so much slower than the Evora 400 (see above) or the 718 GTS 4.0 https://zeperfs.com/en/duel10593-8373.htm

It's probably just average power/area under the torque curve. The Emira has the fractionally higher peak number right at the limiter but the Porsche is delivering the slightly lower amount for a longer duration during an acceleration pull.

From the dyno charts I've seen the Porsche is at peak power for nearly 1000rpm, if you averaged the last 1000rpm of the Evora you could probably knock 20-30bhp off the peak figure. When you're thrashing it, it will spent a lot of time in that last 1000rpm.

Also, it doesn't feel slow, it just feels like it would be better with a bit more.

[bcr5784]

otolith said:

9.3 seconds to 160km/h vs 10.5 seconds. You must have a finely calibrated butt-dyno.

Wasn't me who said it FELT slow - just saying the figures say it is slower than you might expect.

[BertBert]

The Wookie said:

Ironically the reason why the Toyota V6 can feel like it never gets going because it keeps building power all the way up to the limiter whereas even something like a Cayman GTS 4.0 will plateau and actually drop off a bit as it gets there.

You can see it on that Dyno chart. The effect is that you have to wring every last rev out of it to get the performance.

You can't feel power, you can only feel torque. F=MA and all that

[The Wookie]

BertBert said:

You can't feel power, you can only feel torque. F=MA and all that

Same difference by the time it's gone through a gearbox.