Taycan 4S Cross Turismo

[Digga]

Triple Six said:

I am so glad we leased ours - 501 available on Autotrader as of right now.

Do you think, when the current lease ends, the next will be as cheap?

[CloudStuff]

Digga said:

JJMatrixx said:

DMC2 said:

I’m pretty sure you need to own the car rather than lease it to make CT savings

Yeah, that's what I mean. I lease but have I'd like to understand the true cost if bought when rolling in the CT savings etc. My guess would be that given the depreciation cost it must surely be significantly more expensive than the effective lease cost.

You get 100% depreciation against CT up front.

You've just got to ensure you are clear on the potentail costs of early sale though.

[theboss]

100% CT relief is a bit overrated

Sell the car a few years down the line and you need to pay a chunk of it back

It levels out pretty much if you buy nearly new and write it down at 18% per year

The fact that people seem to value 100% when making decisions must account to some extent for the huge disparity between new and nearly new prices.

[Digga]

100% is nice for cashflow. Helps reduce the ridiculous levels of CT.

The superdeduction for plant and machinery at 130% was, IMHO, and excellent idea, but open for all of 5 minutes in strategic business terms. We were lucky because a 2yr lead into a CNC robotics project just dropped in there nicely, but it's not worked out for every firm. Writedown helps smooth cashflow for new investment, cars aside.

18% on a used EV that you keep for a couple of years is still pretty useful IMHO. Again though, you have to buy not lease. If you lease, you do get benefit of 100% all lease payments being deductible.

[JJMatrixx]

Digga said:

JJMatrixx said:

DMC2 said:

I’m pretty sure you need to own the car rather than lease it to make CT savings

Yeah, that's what I mean. I lease but have I'd like to understand the true cost if bought when rolling in the CT savings etc. My guess would be that given the depreciation cost it must surely be significantly more expensive than the effective lease cost.

You get 100% depreciation against CT up front.

Ok, so on a £100k car, you save £25k on your CT bill.

However, the tax written down value on the car is £0. So when you come to sell the car for say £60k, you pay CT on the balancing charge, therefore have a tax charge of £15k.

So the tax saving is £10k and the car has depreciated £40k, costing you £30k. Not to mention any cost to finance the car.

So really this is a super expensive way of financing the car as the tax benefit nowhere near offsets the depreciation.

Sure, if you keep recycling the model, you get another offset on the new car but as the tax treatment changes on EVs this charge will eventually hit you.

I'm a CA but not a tax advisor so could be wrong - if anyone wants to flag anything that's out here then I'm all ears!

[Digga]

JJMatrixx said:

Sure, if you keep recycling the model, you get another offset on the new car but [b]as the tax treatment changes on EVs this charge will eventually hit you.[b/]

Was the other reason to buy; uncertainty of what might be in place in 3 years time. There is always the 'hold' option, if you own.

[theboss]

Digga said:

100% is nice for cashflow. Helps reduce the ridiculous levels of CT.

The superdeduction for plant and machinery at 130% was, IMHO, and excellent idea, but open for all of 5 minutes in strategic business terms. We were lucky because a 2yr lead into a CNC robotics project just dropped in there nicely, but it's not worked out for every firm. Writedown helps smooth cashflow for new investment, cars aside.

18% on a used EV that you keep for a couple of years is still pretty useful IMHO. Again though, you have to buy not lease. If you lease, you do get benefit of 100% all lease payments being deductible.

The 130% super-deduction just 'brought forward' relief at the impending 25% rate rise in the interim between it being announced in 2021 and taking effect in April this year.

I suspect somebody determined that otherwise major business capital investments might get put on hold for 1-2 years.

It in effect just provided tomorrow's higher rate of tax relief today.

I bought at EV last year and didn't want to benefit from 100% relief at 19% only to have to dispose of the car at a future point when the marginal rate is 26.5% so in that time period it was overall more tax efficient NOT to claim 100% up front.

Overall it wouldn't factor too much into my decision making as it balances out in time. It just seems to me that new cars are priced at a premium because business customers want 100% write down and probably preferential finance rates.

Hence nearly new EV's which have taken a big hit, are relatively good value for cash business buyers who don't mind spreading the tax relief over the next 3-4 years.

[Digga]

theboss said:

The 130% super-deduction just 'brought forward' relief at the impending 25% rate rise in the interim between it being announced in 2021 and taking effect in April this year.

I suspect somebody determined that otherwise major business capital investments might get put on hold for 1-2 years.

It in effect just provided tomorrow's higher rate of tax relief today.

I bought at EV last year and didn't want to benefit from 100% relief at 19% only to have to dispose of the car at a future point when the marginal rate is 26.5% so in that time period it was overall more tax efficient NOT to claim 100% up front.

Overall it wouldn't factor too much into my decision making as it balances out in time. It just seems to me that new cars are priced at a premium because business customers want 100% write down and probably preferential finance rates.

Hence nearly new EV's which have taken a big hit, are relatively good value for cash business buyers who don't mind spreading the tax relief over the next 3-4 years.

25% tax rate is not IMHO a consequence of super deduction.

Moreover, there is plenty of hard evidence that UK businesses chronically underinvest in the machinery and tech that drives productivity.

[theboss]

Digga said:

5% tax rate is not IMHO a consequence of super deduction.

Moreover, there is plenty of hard evidence that UK businesses chronically underinvest in the machinery and tech that drives productivity.

Indeed it was the other way around, the super-deduction was a consequence of the tax rise (IMHO)

Was it any coincidence that it was announced at the same time as the 25% rise, to run in the interim period ending the day before the rise kicked in, at a rate that (if you do the sums) exactly matched tax relief at 25% instead of 19%

As you say there is a chronic under-investment, and somebody probably realised that this would slump even harder for 2 years if they didn't provide some counter to the CT change. Given that we were in peak covid or near enough at the time, that could have been the final nail in the coffin for the economy.

If higher rate tax was announced to increase from 40% to 60% in two years time, what do you think would happen to pension contributions in the meantime. Everyone who could, would defer the payments until the new rate kicked in.

[pheonix478]

DMC2 said:

I'm surprised that people are shocked by the depreciation.

This is not a car, it's a piece of tech. And tech has terrible residual value once it is obsolete.

I'm not shocked by the depreciation at all, I was shocked it didn't drop like a stone for almost 18 months! I don't think it's even close to being obsolete; it's still better than the vast majority of similar ICE cars for sale; the only thing I'd realistically swap it for is another Taycan or an M5.

Being just a peice of tech, yes I sort of agree, I love it but it's no more of a keeper than a good computer; I think this is true of most modern cars though, bar a tiny handful of extraordinary exceptions like GT3 RS's.

[Digga]

theboss said:

Digga said:

5% tax rate is not IMHO a consequence of super deduction.

Moreover, there is plenty of hard evidence that UK businesses chronically underinvest in the machinery and tech that drives productivity.

Indeed it was the other way around, the super-deduction was a consequence of the tax rise (IMHO)

Was it any coincidence that it was announced at the same time as the 25% rise, to run in the interim period ending the day before the rise kicked in, at a rate that (if you do the sums) exactly matched tax relief at 25% instead of 19%

As you say there is a chronic under-investment, and somebody probably realised that this would slump even harder for 2 years if they didn't provide some counter to the CT change. Given that we were in peak covid or near enough at the time, that could have been the final nail in the coffin for the economy.

If higher rate tax was announced to increase from 40% to 60% in two years time, what do you think would happen to pension contributions in the meantime. Everyone who could, would defer the payments until the new rate kicked in.

Read a good article about productivity where someone pointed out hard work is not the panacea. They used the example that we no longer dig holes in the ground by hand - the process, by investment in equipment (and training) evolved to use, at the very least, hand tools, but also mechanised machinery. The bigger the hole, the bigger and more capital intensive the machine(s).

Productivity and investment are chicken and egg. There is, however, only one of the variables the government has even the slightest means to promote.

[Ken Figenus]

MisterBigglesworth said:

At the risk of triggering AV185 with another dogs in Porsches rant here is doggo enjoying the cooled seats.

Bonus was the climate control chilled his bowl full of Evian water down to fridge temperatures in a few minutes.

Mate, I have a bigger cat than that but still not allowed as prefers Volvic!

Love your enthusiasm and interest - was full of it myself 2 years ago,

Car remains seismic and love it and 100% rock solid reliable.

Even gets these two in!



Keep enjoying and countering the anti EV absolute BS spouted.

[JJMatrixx]

JJMatrixx said:

MisterBigglesworth said:

Mobile charger connect on a 3 pin drawing 10 amps.

Delivering 2kwh so not the fastest thing in the world but I arrived back at 4pm and it’s going to be fully charged by 11am estimate at 2kwh.

Wanted to test this as worse case scenario if I’m at a Airbnb or friends and need to overnight slow charge it.

Certainly a very useful thing to have in the frunk

I have a trip in a few weeks and want to use this at the airbnb however, I'm only getting 1.3kw/h out of it. It says 50%. Also, think it's an earlier model as it looks a bit different to your one.

Anyone have any ideas why it's not doing 100%?

Can anyone help here? Even if just to confirm that the 50% is normal?

Here's a pic, albeit not connected so the wee house thing is red. Point is it has always shown the 50%. And yes, I know I've scratched the st out the unit

[Ken Figenus]

That charger comes with a big fat manual and I had to change mine to let it deliver100% of the 10a it can draw from 3 pin. That gives a max of about 2.1kw charging - do you have that?

[JJMatrixx]

Ken Figenus said:

That charger comes with a big fat manual and I had to change mine to let it deliver100% of the 10a it can draw from 3 pin. That gives a max of about 2.1kw charging - do you have that?

I get 1.3kw, which is woeful.

So I need the newer unit someone put in the pics? Or can this one be adjusted to get the 100% reading on it. Is it just the fuse or another setting?

[pheonix478]

JJMatrixx said:

I get 1.3kw, which is woeful.

So I need the newer unit someone put in the pics? Or can this one be adjusted to get the 100% reading on it. Is it just the fuse or another setting?

My charger doesn't look like that, no idea if it's newer or older but you can change the max current in the options on the charger.

[Flying machine]

JJMatrixx said:

I get 1.3kw, which is woeful.

So I need the newer unit someone put in the pics? Or can this one be adjusted to get the 100% reading on it. Is it just the fuse or another setting?

I have the same charger which delivers the same dismal charging speed and I can't see any settings, buttons, or dip switches to improve performance - like you I get the 50% image illuminated, but not the orange house image.

[JJMatrixx]

Flying machine said:

I have the same charger which delivers the same dismal charging speed and I can't see any settings, buttons, or dip switches to improve performance - like you I get the 50% image illuminated, but not the orange house image.

The orange house was just that it's switched on but not plugged in so was giving a charging error.

But good to know re: the 50% so thanks for confirming that. Car is a 22 plate so looks like they have since upgraded these units. Lease is up in May and honestly I think I'll be going back to a Tesla. I love Porsches and have had 6 911s from a 930 supersport to a 991.1 RS but honestly there are so many substandard things with the Taycan for a daily EV.

[coffeekid]

JJMatrixx said:

Flying machine said:

I have the same charger which delivers the same dismal charging speed and I can't see any settings, buttons, or dip switches to improve performance - like you I get the 50% image illuminated, but not the orange house image.

The orange house was just that it's switched on but not plugged in so was giving a charging error.

But good to know re: the 50% so thanks for confirming that. Car is a 22 plate so looks like they have since upgraded these units. Lease is up in May and honestly I think I'll be going back to a Tesla. I love Porsches and have had 6 911s from a 930 supersport to a 991.1 RS but honestly there are so many substandard things with the Taycan for a daily EV.

Press and hold the top button (next to where it says 50%) for 3 seconds and it will change to 100% mode

[Flying machine]

coffeekid said:

JJMatrixx said:

Flying machine said:

I have the same charger which delivers the same dismal charging speed and I can't see any settings, buttons, or dip switches to improve performance - like you I get the 50% image illuminated, but not the orange house image.

The orange house was just that it's switched on but not plugged in so was giving a charging error.

But good to know re: the 50% so thanks for confirming that. Car is a 22 plate so looks like they have since upgraded these units. Lease is up in May and honestly I think I'll be going back to a Tesla. I love Porsches and have had 6 911s from a 930 supersport to a 991.1 RS but honestly there are so many substandard things with the Taycan for a daily EV.

Press and hold the top button (next to where it says 50%) for 3 seconds and it will change to 100% mode

Wow! I've just done this and it works perfectly - now charging at a dizzying 2.1 kw. Magic, thank you! Perhaps I should have looked at the instruction manual after all!