2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
OK so regarding the pens. try it, you will last about 1 stage before you realise it is pointless, you are not wanted and they would rather not have to do it at all.
You keep going on about this, but can I ask how many events you have actually attended in the last two years. Because what you say isn't my experience of being out on events last year on closed road rallies, forest rallies, and single venues last year.TO73074E said:
greeny12 said:
For anyone saying Solberg should have pressed on while feeling unwell, I have two words for you.
Henri Toivonen.
Engine fumes in the cabin too, quite a similar situation to what possibly caused Henri and Sergio's crash. Henri Toivonen.
fttm said:
Living abroad means I haven’t watched a rally for years . Can someone please explain how the pens are policed ? Dalby Kielder Hafren take your pick , what’s to stop me parking in some remote spot and walking a few miles through the woods to view the stage at a place I choose?
The idea of the "Pens" is to have a controlled area that give spectators a view of a stage with facilities. On closed roads and single venues it is a bit easier to encourage people to just use the spectator areas. In the forests a bit harder. The only real sanction we have is to stop or abandon a stage.Whilst I get why "experienced" spectators feel they can go where they like. I would remind them that the three people killed on the Jim Clark Rally were experienced spectators. That is why we had to change what we do. What happens in the rest of the world is irrelevant, we have to conform to what the lawmakers, insurance companies etc want.
Having said that I have seen plenty of spectators at events in the last 12 months and not all of them were in pens.
I don't like them, but understand why some events have them. I think if they're well designed and large enough it's okay. If you're at a stage with two passes, and only one pen, it can be a bit repetitive. On the Cambrian in October, for the first run I stayed in the spectator area; in the afternoon I went further into the stage up on a bank, in the treeline - there was a marshal 50 yards away who I'd walked past - no issues at all.
The Jim Clark fatalities had a massive effect, but don't forget the following year and the absolute idiocy of spectators on the Wyedean (spectators in ditches taking photos); which was plastered all over the front of MNews....
The Wyedean is no longer run in February, and is no longer in the BTRDA.
The Jim Clark fatalities had a massive effect, but don't forget the following year and the absolute idiocy of spectators on the Wyedean (spectators in ditches taking photos); which was plastered all over the front of MNews....
The Wyedean is no longer run in February, and is no longer in the BTRDA.
I'm always astounded at the lack of self preservation that some spectators show.
I saw some video of pre-event testing before the monte on youtube. While I'm not up to speed on every turn, the video was pointing towards a corner that looked familiar because I have seen footage of crashes there in the past. Where was a spectator standing? In the direct firing line of the car, exactly where people have gone of previously with no protection from the terrain. You have to wonder what goes through some peoples heads.
It would be a real shame if rallying moves further towards hugely controlled stages with defined viewing spots, but with people like that it's no wonder that its happening.
I saw some video of pre-event testing before the monte on youtube. While I'm not up to speed on every turn, the video was pointing towards a corner that looked familiar because I have seen footage of crashes there in the past. Where was a spectator standing? In the direct firing line of the car, exactly where people have gone of previously with no protection from the terrain. You have to wonder what goes through some peoples heads.
It would be a real shame if rallying moves further towards hugely controlled stages with defined viewing spots, but with people like that it's no wonder that its happening.
I'm so grateful i grew up and lived through a period in time when responsibility for your own protection was down to you.
I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something i did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something i did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
M News take some of the blame, I well remember reporting stuff for many years and being very aware of what possible damage certain stories or photos could do to that sport, they let the sport down that week. In the search for headlines. A bit of thought could easily have been used to stop all this over reaction.
Every country has safety issues but only the UK reacted in such an OTT way I think compared to the rest of Europe. A person was killed in Italy at Rallye Legend, does that event still heavily clamp down, it did a bit but it is still fabulous, why do you think it is popular with fans?
In regard to my spectating now, I don't do as many events as I used to just because of the limitations, I tried to do Clacton and the areas were not great, just dull hairpins to maximise safety and minimise speed and fun, but I get why.,
Only event I really do these days is Roger AC, as that is what a rally used to be in so may ways, I am too far from forests living in in the South East so most stuff was single venues and other than the events at Weston park which is decent, most are either circuit rallies or sprints as I call them or the odd forest, I went to a couple of single venues initially post bans and was less than impressed with what was on offer so either left or have never gone back.
Used to be a regular at Manby, Melbourne and a few other places but the pens there were so awful it really was not worth it.
Every country has safety issues but only the UK reacted in such an OTT way I think compared to the rest of Europe. A person was killed in Italy at Rallye Legend, does that event still heavily clamp down, it did a bit but it is still fabulous, why do you think it is popular with fans?
In regard to my spectating now, I don't do as many events as I used to just because of the limitations, I tried to do Clacton and the areas were not great, just dull hairpins to maximise safety and minimise speed and fun, but I get why.,
Only event I really do these days is Roger AC, as that is what a rally used to be in so may ways, I am too far from forests living in in the South East so most stuff was single venues and other than the events at Weston park which is decent, most are either circuit rallies or sprints as I call them or the odd forest, I went to a couple of single venues initially post bans and was less than impressed with what was on offer so either left or have never gone back.
Used to be a regular at Manby, Melbourne and a few other places but the pens there were so awful it really was not worth it.
jsf said:
I'm so grateful i grew up and lived through a period in time when responsibility for your own protection was down to you.
I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something I did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
That's after it became a commercial event run by IMS; tickets were introduced in 2000. They didn't want to miss out on all the spectators that used to turn up; so any back routes known were closed. And the £5 per car suddenly became £10/15 per person per stage.I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something I did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
LukeBrown66 said:
M News take some of the blame, I well remember reporting stuff for many years and being very aware of what possible damage certain stories or photos could do to that sport, they let the sport down that week. In the search for headlines. A bit of thought could easily have been used to stop all this over reaction.
Every country has safety issues but only the UK reacted in such an OTT way I think compared to the rest of Europe. A person was killed in Italy at Rallye Legend, does that event still heavily clamp down, it did a bit but it is still fabulous, why do you think it is popular with fans?
In regard to my spectating now, I don't do as many events as I used to just because of the limitations, I tried to do Clacton and the areas were not great, just dull hairpins to maximise safety and minimise speed and fun, but I get why.,
Only event I really do these days is Roger AC, as that is what a rally used to be in so may ways, I am too far from forests living in in the South East so most stuff was single venues and other than the events at Weston park which is decent, most are either circuit rallies or sprints as I call them or the odd forest, I went to a couple of single venues initially post bans and was less than impressed with what was on offer so either left or have never gone back.
Used to be a regular at Manby, Melbourne and a few other places but the pens there were so awful it really was not worth it.
Pens at Manby? there were never pens at Manby it ceased to be a rally venue long before "pens" became an issue. As for Melbourne, there have always been spectator restrictions at Melbourne. That has not changed all the time I have been going there for 30+ years.Every country has safety issues but only the UK reacted in such an OTT way I think compared to the rest of Europe. A person was killed in Italy at Rallye Legend, does that event still heavily clamp down, it did a bit but it is still fabulous, why do you think it is popular with fans?
In regard to my spectating now, I don't do as many events as I used to just because of the limitations, I tried to do Clacton and the areas were not great, just dull hairpins to maximise safety and minimise speed and fun, but I get why.,
Only event I really do these days is Roger AC, as that is what a rally used to be in so may ways, I am too far from forests living in in the South East so most stuff was single venues and other than the events at Weston park which is decent, most are either circuit rallies or sprints as I call them or the odd forest, I went to a couple of single venues initially post bans and was less than impressed with what was on offer so either left or have never gone back.
Used to be a regular at Manby, Melbourne and a few other places but the pens there were so awful it really was not worth it.
You seem to apply by your own admission your limited knowledge of what is currently happening and try and present them as a reflection of what is happening UK-wide.
You say the reaction was OTT, you clearly have no idea how close rallying become to being banned in the UK. As I have said before how other countries deal with it is irrelevant to us.
jsf said:
I'm so grateful i grew up and lived through a period in time when responsibility for your own protection was down to you.
I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something i did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
This ^I gave up spectating on rallies after the 2003 Rally GB, they treated spectators like scum with ridiculous pens and police closed roads that forced you to a single point. Long gone are the days of picking up a map and working out your own route, or knowing where the great spots were in iconic stages that only the hard core knew about, which was all part of the charm of the whole event, something i did safely for decades with much larger spectator numbers than you see today.
And once it became obvious this was the way it was going to be hereon for rally spectators in the UK, I went abroad to watch the WRC.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Ogier's dominance was helped significantly by the Polo being the best car. Don't get me wrong, he is still a fabulous driver, and I would argue for him being the GOAT since he has gone on to win with both M-Sport and Toyota, but whoever wins it this year will 100% deserve it.
I recently watched some footage of Ogier testing for and competing on the Monte back in 2014/15/16. Talk about at one with the car. The Polo must have been very specifically designed around Ogier's needs, and boy did it show in his/the car's results. A combination of his own self-confidence but also his confidence in the Polo made J-ML and AM look like they were struggling (though the same could be said of Loeb and Mikko Hirvonen in the Citroen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8SItnwBSAM&t=...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh90nqXk6Uo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArkLHj7Yo4c
The rumour-mill suggested the Polo wore some very trick Sachs dampers, if they were, they certainly appeared to give the car other-wordly abilities when it came to it's ability to deal with the bumps.
I still think the Polo WRC car was the best looking of all the WRC cars over the last ten years (with the exception of this years cars, and specifically the Puma) and to me it still looks more go-kart like on Tarmac than anything build since (or maybe that was down to Ogier's setup and driving style ?)
Either way, Ogier Capito and the team built and ran something very special indeed.
Galway is my local rally
It was brilliant from my end 130 starters 25+ R5/S2000 cars, don't know how many Ultimate spec Escorts/Corollas. Conditions were EXTREMELY challenging, it's definitely the toughest rally in the country, others might have better competition between drivers but I think Galway remains an endurance rally like those of old. 44 retirements with 86 finishers. I was out on both days and I don't think I'll be dry till next weekend!!
Onboard here shows how difficult it was! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5S4DPwYUPg
It was brilliant from my end 130 starters 25+ R5/S2000 cars, don't know how many Ultimate spec Escorts/Corollas. Conditions were EXTREMELY challenging, it's definitely the toughest rally in the country, others might have better competition between drivers but I think Galway remains an endurance rally like those of old. 44 retirements with 86 finishers. I was out on both days and I don't think I'll be dry till next weekend!!
Onboard here shows how difficult it was! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5S4DPwYUPg
Meirion Evans/Jonathan Jackson-Polo R5-Galway International Rally 2022-Onboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2XZDyDLTgo
Galway International Rally 2022 Highlights (Flyin Finn Motorsport)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qr2GEpYfx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2XZDyDLTgo
Galway International Rally 2022 Highlights (Flyin Finn Motorsport)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qr2GEpYfx8
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