RE: INEOS Grenadier prototype | PH Review
Discussion
ruairi50 said:
Just after reading this Thread and by God ye Brits come across as a bunch of SAD, JEALOUS People
The complete HATRED of the brand because it isnt BRITISH BUILT. Finding Fault with everything from
the design, the electronics, the switches, the engines, the way it will handle and hoping its a FAILURE
Before it has even launched is gobsmacking. Get over yourselves to f
k
And from me, I wish INEOS well and hope it sells like hot cakes
Thank you
That is a misinterpretation.The complete HATRED of the brand because it isnt BRITISH BUILT. Finding Fault with everything from
the design, the electronics, the switches, the engines, the way it will handle and hoping its a FAILURE
Before it has even launched is gobsmacking. Get over yourselves to f
k And from me, I wish INEOS well and hope it sells like hot cakes
Thank you
People on here appear to be disappointed that a nostalgic pastiche of a car with British origins and a British owner who was vocally in support of the UK leaving the EU, but lives in Monaco, is to be built in the EU.
Paracetamol said:
Firstly, I have no association to Inos but was able to ride in the car last year …and have to say I was blown away.
This article comes across as negative and almost sensational.
Quite frankly no one with an SUV actually uses it as an SUV and those that need one soon realise the delicacy and complexity built into the new ones. It’s much the same on saloon cars too.
Instead Inos have gone on all out on things that actually matter. A beautiful drivetrain . Exceptional strength of chassis and properly considered articulation etc. the package felt tight and well engineered in the way a Rolex Submariner does. The interior is great too. Particularly dear comfort.
From where I was sitting it’s resulted in a car that will also be very comfortable on road too.
It bears little resemblance to a Defender beyond its silhouette.
I suspect it will be an accidental hit as it’s actually very desirable when you get close up to it..not what the Founder wanted I suspect..but if it pays the bills..
Only real issue is the emotional sales may wane without an EV drivetrain and I don’t believe it can be an effective one (weight , frontal area etc)
All this is well and good, but your closing sentence is key.This article comes across as negative and almost sensational.
Quite frankly no one with an SUV actually uses it as an SUV and those that need one soon realise the delicacy and complexity built into the new ones. It’s much the same on saloon cars too.
Instead Inos have gone on all out on things that actually matter. A beautiful drivetrain . Exceptional strength of chassis and properly considered articulation etc. the package felt tight and well engineered in the way a Rolex Submariner does. The interior is great too. Particularly dear comfort.
From where I was sitting it’s resulted in a car that will also be very comfortable on road too.
It bears little resemblance to a Defender beyond its silhouette.
I suspect it will be an accidental hit as it’s actually very desirable when you get close up to it..not what the Founder wanted I suspect..but if it pays the bills..
Only real issue is the emotional sales may wane without an EV drivetrain and I don’t believe it can be an effective one (weight , frontal area etc)
The lack of an EV powertrain is far from "emotional". Like it or not, ICE is legislatively out from 2030. This vehicle isn't even on sale yet. So they've got ~7yrs max to amortize all their costs?
As you note, few people use SUVs as SUVs. But there are more people buying them that drive in that way than actually need something uber-robust/fully off-roady. (Right or wrong. Doesn't matter).
And then they make it look like a product that even the originators have ditched. Only wider/bigger (just what's required).
I'm sure they've done their research and that my anecdotal, curmudgeonly, non-expert view is well wide of the mark...but unless they can get an EV powertrain to work (is any manufacturer seriously backing hydrogen right now? 14 hydrogen stations in the UK right now? No doubt zero near woods where people can get muddy
), this is looking like a dud to me. (And on that basis, building up jobs in France is probably better than here!).I love ICE. I love the smells, the noises, the sounds. The more cylinders the better. But as a new vehicle product, it's dead. I struggle to understand the logic of companies like BMW continuing pushing all the effort and cost into new ICE 'M' variants. Let alone things like this. Just seems like a big fat waste of effort and resources.
MC Bodge said:
ruairi50 said:
Just after reading this Thread and by God ye Brits come across as a bunch of SAD, JEALOUS People
The complete HATRED of the brand because it isnt BRITISH BUILT. Finding Fault with everything from
the design, the electronics, the switches, the engines, the way it will handle and hoping its a FAILURE
Before it has even launched is gobsmacking. Get over yourselves to fk
And from me, I wish INEOS well and hope it sells like hot cakes
Thank you
That is a misinterpretation.The complete HATRED of the brand because it isnt BRITISH BUILT. Finding Fault with everything from
the design, the electronics, the switches, the engines, the way it will handle and hoping its a FAILURE
Before it has even launched is gobsmacking. Get over yourselves to f
k And from me, I wish INEOS well and hope it sells like hot cakes
Thank you
People on here appear to be disappointed that a nostalgic pastiche of a car with British origins and a British owner who was vocally in support of the UK leaving the EU, but lives in Monaco, is to be built in the EU.
I confess I'm probably personally unreasonably annoyed about this thing because it was back when the Defender was launched so often compared as "the car JLR should have built", when clearly they shouldn't.
The new Defender is an absolute triumph; they smashed it out the park and it's selling loads (and i bought one, despite never being in the market for something like that before).
That's another British company we also want to be successful, right? Doesn't feel like that - like McLaren, most internet commentary is negative. Worst thing about owning a JLR product is the "have you broken down yet?" tedium (i haven't...)
MC Bodge said:
That is a misinterpretation.
People on here appear to be disappointed that a nostalgic pastiche of a car with British origins and a British owner who was vocally in support of the UK leaving the EU, but lives in Monaco, is to be built in the EU.
Tbh, it appears more people that didn't vote for Brexit, getting pissed off because someone who did is doing something in business - and therefore deserve every failure that could be heaped upon them.People on here appear to be disappointed that a nostalgic pastiche of a car with British origins and a British owner who was vocally in support of the UK leaving the EU, but lives in Monaco, is to be built in the EU.
It's an odd viewpoint, one I'm not sure has historical parallels. Never before have I seen a business owner's mainstream policial views lead to such opprobrium.
Sway said:
Tbh, it appears more people that didn't vote for Brexit, getting pissed off because someone who did is doing something in business - and therefore deserve every failure that could be heaped upon them.
It's an odd viewpoint, one I'm not sure has historical parallels. Never before have I seen a business owner's mainstream policial views lead to such opprobrium.
It is easy to forget what a tour de force of the post Brexit Britain this was supposed to have been, a British car, built in Britain like we used to (Back in the Good Old Days). It's an odd viewpoint, one I'm not sure has historical parallels. Never before have I seen a business owner's mainstream policial views lead to such opprobrium.
Personally I don't give a toss where it is built. I don't even dislike the vehicle per se, it just seems to have been built up to be something it won't be (a back to basics off roader) and the vehicle that the new Defender should have been, i.e. a pastiche of the old model.
Sway said:
Tbh, it appears more people that didn't vote for Brexit, getting pissed off because someone who did is doing something in business - and therefore deserve every failure that could be heaped upon them.
It's an odd viewpoint, one I'm not sure has historical parallels. Never before have I seen a business owner's mainstream policial views lead to such opprobrium.
It's amusing. He's pissed off the remainers, and then promptly sold out the "Rah! Sovereignty" crowd. So he's burnt a lot of goodwill he might have had in the UK.It's an odd viewpoint, one I'm not sure has historical parallels. Never before have I seen a business owner's mainstream policial views lead to such opprobrium.
But most objections are people questioning the business case. And, yes, he's a billionaire business man but even they make mistakes, often through ego or vanity.
loudlashadjuster said:
Very few people understand the inordinate complexity in most modern systems, cars absolutely included.
In fact, with general disinterest in science/tech and active attempts to discredit or misinform in so many areas ("we've had enough of experts!") it's getting scarily close to a 'The Machine Stops' kinda situation. Always looking for simple answers to complex problems.
Anyway, back to the car...
I'm off to only view the world through second, or third hand opinion - first hand is too vulgar......
Bill said:
It's amusing. He's pissed off the remainers, and then promptly sold out the "Rah! Sovereignty" crowd. So he's burnt a lot of goodwill he might have had in the UK.
But most objections are people questioning the business case. And, yes, he's a billionaire business man but even they make mistakes, often through ego or vanity.
Most objections are - but there's still a rather amusing component who are very clearly basing their opinions solely off Ratcliffe not having the same view as them on a single vote...But most objections are people questioning the business case. And, yes, he's a billionaire business man but even they make mistakes, often through ego or vanity.
Not saying whether he's making a mistake or not - but if anything it's a vote of confidence in UK plc that it was a French plant being gifted to whoever would take it on... We couldn't/wouldn't begin to match that for such low volumes.
cidered77 said:
that's about the size of it...
I confess I'm probably personally unreasonably annoyed about this thing because it was back when the Defender was launched so often compared as "the car JLR should have built", when clearly they shouldn't.
The new Defender is an absolute triumph; they smashed it out the park and it's selling loads (and i bought one, despite never being in the market for something like that before).
That's another British company we also want to be successful, right? Doesn't feel like that - like McLaren, most internet commentary is negative. Worst thing about owning a JLR product is the "have you broken down yet?" tedium (i haven't...)
I am actually more annoyed that UK engineering talent was not used to develop car, nor are there any sizeable UK suppliers involved. We have many world class automotive consultancies out there, Ricardo, for example. Instead they initially used a German consultancy followed by Magna,I confess I'm probably personally unreasonably annoyed about this thing because it was back when the Defender was launched so often compared as "the car JLR should have built", when clearly they shouldn't.
The new Defender is an absolute triumph; they smashed it out the park and it's selling loads (and i bought one, despite never being in the market for something like that before).
That's another British company we also want to be successful, right? Doesn't feel like that - like McLaren, most internet commentary is negative. Worst thing about owning a JLR product is the "have you broken down yet?" tedium (i haven't...)
From business point of view I get the move to France, however they could have tried to take the Honda plant with UK governmnet investment.
MC Bodge said:
Sway said:
Not saying whether he's making a mistake or not - but if anything it's a vote of confidence in UK plc that it was a French plant being gifted to whoever would take it on... We couldn't/wouldn't begin to match that for such low volumes.
?
loudlashadjuster said:
MC Bodge said:
Sway said:
Not saying whether he's making a mistake or not - but if anything it's a vote of confidence in UK plc that it was a French plant being gifted to whoever would take it on... We couldn't/wouldn't begin to match that for such low volumes.
?MC Bodge said:
Sway said:
Not saying whether he's making a mistake or not - but if anything it's a vote of confidence in UK plc that it was a French plant being gifted to whoever would take it on... We couldn't/wouldn't begin to match that for such low volumes.
?The fact that Mercedes deemed it better to pump millions into the factory to make it attractive for someone to take on, then to gift it to them - that's not a sign of particular confidence in French manufacturing.
Nick Pappagiorgio said:
Unless I've missed it, are there any plans for a 2-door (SWB "90") model?
With the SWB Shogun getting canned, and new Defender having fewer doors if you want, that must be on the cards?
Not when I asked the question whilst checking it out at Silverstone last year.With the SWB Shogun getting canned, and new Defender having fewer doors if you want, that must be on the cards?
Read that back to yourself....
It's on road manners will be atrocious ''because proper off road articulation'', it's interior design looks like what my son would design given the choice ''more buttons'' and as the article suggests the panels gaps look worst in class (as will the rest of the engineering I suspect) ...... then they are going to launch it for MORE then the new Defender. Which does everything off road, but is a luxury vehicle to match its luxury vehicle price tag
Tell me, who is their target customer? Every other vehicle on the road has a pretty easy 'demographic' which it targets, this car's 'demographic' simply doesn't exist....the closest ones are Land Rover customers...but they'll buy a land rover because when they spend £50k on a vehicle they don't want to feel like they are sitting in a 5 years old Dacia Duster. They're also not total idiots (because they have £50k to spend on a posh vehicle...) and will take one look at this mess & remember those little things like comfort, fuel economy, reliability, service/support network, brand awareness, crash safety, driver aids, drivability, NVH, warranty, parts support etc etc etc etc what they WONT think is ''oh but it can do full axle articulation & is rufty tufty at rock crawling'
Paracetamol said:
Quite frankly no one with an SUV actually uses it as an SUV
Paracetamol said:
Ineos have gone on all out on things that actually matter. A beautiful drivetrain . Exceptional strength of chassis and properly considered articulation etc.
This is the problem with this entire vehicle. It's got the Off Road capabilities of ''the best, from 1980s''.....and nothing else?It's on road manners will be atrocious ''because proper off road articulation'', it's interior design looks like what my son would design given the choice ''more buttons'' and as the article suggests the panels gaps look worst in class (as will the rest of the engineering I suspect) ...... then they are going to launch it for MORE then the new Defender. Which does everything off road, but is a luxury vehicle to match its luxury vehicle price tag
Tell me, who is their target customer? Every other vehicle on the road has a pretty easy 'demographic' which it targets, this car's 'demographic' simply doesn't exist....the closest ones are Land Rover customers...but they'll buy a land rover because when they spend £50k on a vehicle they don't want to feel like they are sitting in a 5 years old Dacia Duster. They're also not total idiots (because they have £50k to spend on a posh vehicle...) and will take one look at this mess & remember those little things like comfort, fuel economy, reliability, service/support network, brand awareness, crash safety, driver aids, drivability, NVH, warranty, parts support etc etc etc etc what they WONT think is ''oh but it can do full axle articulation & is rufty tufty at rock crawling'
Edited by Andeh1 on Wednesday 23 February 19:16
jmcc500 said:
Ivan stewart said:
At least it keeps its wheels on the ground most of the time, unlike the new pretender .
Without diff locks and/or electronic aids it needs to. Less important if you can choose to send drive to the wheels that are in touch.The Skoda Yeti could deal with having two wheels off the ground and keep going...
Expensive, clunky, out-dated piece of crap from a hypocritical, lying, offshore Brexiteer. Yawn.
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