RE: Official: 2022 INEOS Grenadier priced from £49k

[1878]

fantheman80 said:

Absolute state of that centre console, looks like a bad prop off Red Dwarf...

Give people touchscreens and they moan about iPads stuck on the dash, give them buttons and ... hey in this one we can moan about both

Skipped past most of the pages, have we had
How much?
How heavy?
Automatic?
Sheep in the back?
Hose down the interior?
Second Coming of the Utility Vehicle now the Defender sold its soul?

[Cups Renault]

Post Brexit w#nk wagon

Stick your bozo Boris style lies up your ars£ and go reside permanently in you non Dom island of sh!thousery

[oilit]

I skipped after page 2 tbh, but If he can get the big power companies, some armies and a few yuppies to buy it he will have achieved his goals.

The real test will be if the talaban are using them as they don't use unreliable crap !

Everyone complains about the mpg, my defender v8 auto does about 8-12mpg when the aircon is on and you have your heavy boots on….. so its all relative

[boozyjay]

NigelCayless said:

I'll take a new Raptor Ranger. Thanks

I'll take a Panda Cross.

[JOB2.5-16]

Max_Torque said:

Does anyone think that somehow Ineos won't suffer the same production halting component shortages as everyone else and somehow, despite using all the same parts as everyone else, be able to deliver cars immediately?

Edited by Max_Torque on Friday 29th April 17:01

I think Ineos might have had their eye on this one. I was speaking to their man yesterday and he told me that they’ve been watching the situation and buying microchips over the last two years and have enough to satisfy 10 months of production.

Max_Torque said:

it's also worth noting that comparing the fuel economy of this vehicle, comming on sale in perhaps late 2022 or 2023 with 4x4 mentioned from nearly 15 years ago is ridiculous. You have to compare the consumption with similar cars on sale new today. Like for example the new Defender or commerical pickups etc

Edited by Max_Torque on Friday 29th April 17:01

Comparing fuel economy with a car from 15 years ago is perfectly pertinent if one happens to be swapping from one to the other. FYI, I also mentioned LR D5 - which over 23k miles, my boss’s wife’s car has averaged 26.6mpg. I doubt an L663 Defender will do any better.

Max_Torque said:

And finally, the poster saying "i don't care about fuel economy but i care about Co2" sorry, they are the same thing! The Co2 emitted when burning a mass of fuel is fixed by the chemistry. For diesel, every litre of fuel you burn, using oxygen from the air, will release around 2.62kg of Co2. You can't change that. So if a car has a large fuel consumption, then it also has a large Co2 emission.

Edited by Max_Torque on Friday 29th April 17:01

Interesting that. I would imagine most of these tests are fiddled, even post dieselgate.

[dvs_dave]

A.J.M said:

£49k for that…

So much for it being a £30k 300tdi 110 replacement like the new defender haters were dreaming of.

Also massively overpriced compared to D max, Ranger, hilux etc.

The VED prices for it with those co2 figures is going to really hurt.

Still going to buy a new defender over this thing.

How much did a 110 300tdi cost back when it was released almost 30 years ago, in 1994?

By way of comparison the Grenadier costs the equivalent of just over £23k in 1994 money.

[markdenton]

this is an absolute lemon, just can't see it flying in any way whatsoever - just so out of touch with what's going on in the market. Not commercially viable full stop

[xcentric]

I wanted one of these. I even went to a show where there was one on demo.

I wanted a basic vehicle with as few electronics as possible, basic so it would last for ever and be simple and cheap to maintain, reliable, tough, comfortable enough, and capable.

It's hit some of those markers, but not at £50k. Residuals won't be great because people don't recognise the name, the dealer network is unclear, and there will be some high profile issues because it's simply hard to develop a new vehicle. But I still think it's a missed opportunity. Sure, there's not a huge market for it - but there isn't for any car in any particular niche, except the everyday family car. So if you're not aiming for that, then do at least hit a core niche. If I look at who this is aimed at, it's the like-to-be-country set on a tight budget - which is pretty niche and not exactly aspirational.

If it were a 4x4 'truck' (think US, or the Oz ute), it would have done well - the retro Defender looks and image, a simple cheap maintainable engine and reliable running gear - what's not to love for an outdoorsy family, the farmer, the towing set, the road trip/adventure set? As it is - get a Defender, a HiLux or a Ranger..... they all do what this seems to do better, for less overall outlay.....

Would I have one? Yes, to drive for a bit: I like different vehicles with some character. Would I buy one? No. Would I swap in straight exchange my 110 for this? No. Doe sit have character - yes - but it's actually schizophrenic in that it has two or three, and none are really convincing.....

Edited by xcentric on Friday 29th April 23:55

[Bodo]

I liked the no-nonsense concept from the start, and I hope Ineos Automotive will survive on fleet deals for a couple of years, so that they can better their offer with a purpose-driven and competitively-priced SWB that makes good use of its engine.

[easytiger123]

markdenton said:

this is an absolute lemon, just can't see it flying in any way whatsoever - just so out of touch with what's going on in the market. Not commercially viable full stop

I think they'll sell as many as they can make, as fast as they can make them. It's about as far removed from "out of touch with what's going on in the market" as it's possible to be unless you live in a parallel universe in which every other person doesn't own an SUV, as seems to be the case where I live.

I guess time will tell which one of us is right!

[LooneyTunes]

easytiger123 said:

I think they'll sell as many as they can make, as fast as they can make them. It's about as far removed from "out of touch with what's going on in the market" as it's possible to be unless you live in a parallel universe in which every other person doesn't own an SUV, as seems to be the case where I live.

I guess time will tell which one of us is right!

Have you seen where their dealer network is? (Map at the bottom of this page: https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/gb/buying-the-grenad...

It’s almost as if they’ve deliberately avoided areas in which SUVs are most popular…

[JustGREENI]

It looks like Homer was asked to design an off road vehicle (and he only had a ruler and pencil).

[easytiger123]

LooneyTunes said:

Have you seen where their dealer network is? (Map at the bottom of this page: https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/gb/buying-the-grenad...

It’s almost as if they’ve deliberately avoided areas in which SUVs are most popular…

The link doesn't work but I found the dealer network and, you're right, there's only one yet-to-be-announced dealer in London (for example) which I agree seems odd. That said, I live in London, I've paid my £450 or whatever deposit, and I'll spec it and buy one when I can order it next month. I basically view the vehicle as a much less powerful but massively less expensive G63. As long as the reliability isn't woeful (and I accept that's a gamble at least at this stage), then as I said, I think they'll sell like hot cakes.

[squirdan]

i cant understand all the hate for this. I quite like it. In the last few years I have had a 110 Defender, a Classic Rangie and a couple of Velars. The Grenadier is sort of a mix up of all of those.

Lot of posters on here seem to think all car buyers are rational. If you live in London and observe the number of G63s for instance, or older Defenders, in an urban environment you know thats not true. V few people who wear a Rolex go deep sea diving...SUV / 4x4 is largely the same

List price is mostly irrelevent these days so the man maths will depend on residuals and what finance deals they've lined up (but to my eyes it looks ok vs Defender prices)

Remember most car companies are banks in disguise and make de minimus profit on the actual car, and make all their profit on your 5.9pc PCP which they funded at 1pc. I dont know where Ineos are on all that, maybe they have enough margin in the car given a clean sheet operation

I think this flies out the door as something a bit different, contrarian etc

[catcha]

It’s a shame that this couldn’t be built in Britain though. I know the ex Merc plant was available and already kitted out but personally given a small price difference between this and a JLR product built in the UK I would choose the latter.

[jason61c]

squirdan said:

i cant understand all the hate for this. I quite like it. In the last few years I have had a 110 Defender, a Classic Rangie and a couple of Velars. The Grenadier is sort of a mix up of all of those.

Lot of posters on here seem to think all car buyers are rational. If you live in London and observe the number of G63s for instance, or older Defenders, in an urban environment you know thats not true. V few people who wear a Rolex go deep sea diving...SUV / 4x4 is largely the same

List price is mostly irrelevent these days so the man maths will depend on residuals and what finance deals they've lined up (but to my eyes it looks ok vs Defender prices)

Remember most car companies are banks in disguise and make de minimus profit on the actual car, and make all their profit on your 5.9pc PCP which they funded at 1pc. I dont know where Ineos are on all that, maybe they have enough margin in the car given a clean sheet operation

I think this flies out the door as something a bit different, contrarian etc

I struggle to see the hate also.

£25k in 1994, £55k in 2022.

its a mash up of all the best bits, the more I look, the more I see G-wagon elements. So what if its not made in the UK. what is? The only positive would be if it was made in the Nissan or Honda factories.

5 year warranty on it, 3 year on new JLR products. This isn't even aimed at JLR products as they don't have anything comparable anymore.

I'm a massive land cruiser fan, these are the same price for a top spec one.

[JOB2.5-16]

catcha said:

It’s a shame that this couldn’t be built in Britain though. I know the ex Merc plant was available and already kitted out but personally given a small price difference between this and a JLR product built in the UK I would choose the latter.

A nice thought but all Defenders are built in Slovakia.

[Walter Sobchak]

Sadly we don’t get this:



In the UK, so if I were going to spend a hell of a lot of money on a new,capable 4x4 I really don’t know if I’d go for this or the new Defender, in fact I’d probably just play it safe and import the Toyota!.

[jason61c]

Walter Sobchak said:

Sadly we don’t get this:



In the UK, so if I were going to spend a hell of a lot of money on a new,capable 4x4 I really don’t know if I’d go for this or the new Defender, in fact I’d probably just play it safe and import the Toyota!.

the new 300 series is about £90k. they're ace.

[austinsmirk]

It’s outdated technology though as the world goes electric/hybrid.

Like re launching a mini disc player as apple releases an I pod. You’d be making a dumb decision buying the former.

I suppose some will sell due to uniqueness but you’d have to predict bankruptcy