Ineos Grenadier customer cars arrive at dealers
Discussion
blank said:
Seems these are type approved / registered as N1 goods vehicles, which means they're subject to "van" speed limits which might catch a few people out.
Some are and some aren’t. Just like old Defenders. All a part of their strategy to get around CO2 emissions rules; see https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca... for more details.Harry’s review
https://youtu.be/8Cr05r2CYsk
I have to say, having the speedo and such on the centre console, the intrusion in to the footwell and the b pillar position are seal breakers for me.
It would be hard for me to chose this over the new defender
https://youtu.be/8Cr05r2CYsk
I have to say, having the speedo and such on the centre console, the intrusion in to the footwell and the b pillar position are seal breakers for me.
It would be hard for me to chose this over the new defender
Not sure, honestly, how it can be compared to the new Defender as they are two very different product. I'm not sure it can be compared to the old one as it's a brand new vehicle built using all the latest methods. I guess this is the risk of making a brand new car to look like someone else's old car?
It really needs to be compared to other modern, utility 4x4s for a fair review.
What I did notice from Harry's review is that the dash is seemingly really terrible 80s plastic sort of stuff. Very Renault in that regard. But most importantly it was already rusting quite badly underneath and in bits that wouldn't have been hot or scraped on anything. If this car is intended to be an automotive cockroach they do appear to have built it from left over Leyland or Fiat iron?
It really needs to be compared to other modern, utility 4x4s for a fair review.
What I did notice from Harry's review is that the dash is seemingly really terrible 80s plastic sort of stuff. Very Renault in that regard. But most importantly it was already rusting quite badly underneath and in bits that wouldn't have been hot or scraped on anything. If this car is intended to be an automotive cockroach they do appear to have built it from left over Leyland or Fiat iron?
Most of the rust was on the bash plates. Unless you use aluminium bash plates then they will rust.
And the problem is with other modern utility 4x4s what are they? The new hilux, Land Cruiser? Both of which are considerably cheaper.
And the seats don’t fold flat so I can’t sleep in the back.
Also, 84.7 decibels driving along a road. I think they missed a trick. What I would pay for is a utility 4x4 which had very good ergonomics and nvh.
One thing I live about the new defender is the quietness and refinement of the cabin.
And the problem is with other modern utility 4x4s what are they? The new hilux, Land Cruiser? Both of which are considerably cheaper.
And the seats don’t fold flat so I can’t sleep in the back.
Also, 84.7 decibels driving along a road. I think they missed a trick. What I would pay for is a utility 4x4 which had very good ergonomics and nvh.
One thing I live about the new defender is the quietness and refinement of the cabin.
Edited by cowboyengineer on Sunday 28th May 22:03
Edited by cowboyengineer on Sunday 28th May 22:04
DonkeyApple said:
Not sure, honestly, how it can be compared to the new Defender as they are two very different product. I'm not sure it can be compared to the old one as it's a brand new vehicle built using all the latest methods. I guess this is the risk of making a brand new car to look like someone else's old car?
It really needs to be compared to other modern, utility 4x4s for a fair review.
But that's its problem. It's a leisure product for the wealthy masquerading as a utility 4x4. So it's expensive to run but the utility is compromised.It really needs to be compared to other modern, utility 4x4s for a fair review.
cowboyengineer said:
Also, 84.7 decibels driving along a road. I think they missed a trick. What I would pay for is a utility 4x4 which had very good ergonomics and nvh.
One thing I live about the new defender is the quietness and refinement of the cabin.
The fact it’s fitted with decent off road tyres has to applauded - yeh they could be changed to road bias tyres for a quieter ride , but then again it makes buying such a 4x4 pointless - as you may as well buy a mall-crawler/yummy mummy wagon.One thing I live about the new defender is the quietness and refinement of the cabin.
Comparison to new defender isn’t it’s target market. You wont see cherry pickers mounted on new defenders, but you will see that with a grenny sold with a bare rear chassis.
eliot said:
The fact it’s fitted with decent off road tyres has to applauded - yeh they could be changed to road bias tyres for a quieter ride , but then again it makes buying such a 4x4 pointless - as you may as well buy a mall-crawler/yummy mummy wagon.
Comparison to new defender isn’t it’s target market. You wont see cherry pickers mounted on new defenders, but you will see that with a grenny sold with a bare rear chassis.
Will you though? If they can't get the payload over 1000kg, it's not going to be classed as a commercial vehicle and based on the fact that none of the station wagon versions do, I don't hold much hope.Comparison to new defender isn’t it’s target market. You wont see cherry pickers mounted on new defenders, but you will see that with a grenny sold with a bare rear chassis.
Bill said:
But that's its problem. It's a leisure product for the wealthy masquerading as a utility 4x4. So it's expensive to run but the utility is compromised.
Morning. I don't think it was intended to be for the wealthy in the way modern JLR stuff tends to be. When he started this it was going to be a cheap toy to simply replace what the last decade of Defender buyers wanted. For the last decade of the old Defender it was pretty much a cheap lifestyle toy for folks who lived in towns and had some money to burn. It sat there alongside things like Caterhams as a fun way to swap some excess cash into a silly toy that instantly got you away from the office job the moment you jumped behind the wheel. So wealthy as I'm having a dollop of cash to swap but the product was cheap to fit. When this car was announced as a copy of the old Defender he was quite clear that it was also going to copy the pricing curve. If it had then I don't think the foibles would be all that much of an issue. The old Defender didn't even allow your whole body in the cabin and the front seats were modelled on miserable Methodist church pews. No one cared, it was a £25k bit of escapism and fun. I suspect that if it had been £75k, or the equivalent back then, most people would have struggled to put up with the foibles.
Bill said:
DonkeyApple said:
Morning.
IIRC we've both been saying from the start that we can't see this being anything other than an expensive toy.
It's a shame. The world is more interesting with this in it, but it's swapped one set of issues for a load of others.
Come when they've proven the vehicle within their own business fleet?
Ultimately it is a toy, precisely as the old Defender was in its final decades. But now a very expensive one that will forever be carrying excess baggage.
When road testing these they need to be compared to the Disco 3 rather than the old Defender. That was JLRs last modern ladder chassis 4x4. It drove exceedingly well on and off road for its design and is arguably the benchmark and 20 years on the Grenadier at worst should match but really it should be smashing the Disco 3 on all fronts?
DonkeyApple said:
When road testing these they need to be compared to the Disco 3 rather than the old Defender. That was JLRs last modern ladder chassis 4x4. It drove exceedingly well on and off road for its design and is arguably the benchmark and 20 years on the Grenadier at worst should match but really it should be smashing the Disco 3 on all fronts?
Maybe a P38 is more relevant (true separate chassis, solid axles), a bit unfair to pretend it’s going to be as good as a Discovery 3. Just seen my first one of these on the road and then parked up. It was in Clifton village (Bristol), where it fitted in quite well with the G Wagens (both Urban and AMG models), old and new Defenders and the other JLR produce. It actually looked quite good to me, although I do have an old 1987 90, and my wife just thought it was an old Land Rover. It did however get more looks cruising round than the McLaren or Ferrari that were doing laps. Cliftonites do like to think of themselves as old money though, so not easily impressed by supercars.
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