Discussion
Russ Bost said:
Den, would thickies in leathers be ok instead of fleeces?
I surrender 
Seriously folks, I'm really sorry if I caused any offence. I'm here to make (and restore) friendships and not for courting controversy (which just seems to follow me).
There have been some brilliant comments on the subject of shows which I'll try to go back to later. However, work must come first so it might take a while for me to get around to it.
October edition is late (again!!!!)
Den
nice one russ! on the subjects of eu beaurocrats and bikers the eu are trying to make all bikers wear hi-vis jackets and allow absolutely no modifications from manufacturers spec,last weekend they had a rally and bought the m5 to a standstill with more planned chaos to follow,my point here! solidarity and unity. it wont be long before kit cars are back under the eu spotlight with more legislation,!
Seeing the cars being driven is the missing bit, I think. There's no structure to a show like Stoneleigh, it's just there to be looked at. Which is fine as far as it goes, and I always enjoy a poke aronud, but compare with any other sort of country fair or rally. There'll be a ring or course or something going on, vehicles being driven around, a bit of commentary - a bit of focus.
Several mags now do track days, so it feels like all the elements are already happening, but need bringing together. Ford and mini clubs will hold shows at tracks where there are your various stalls, owners cars, turn up and drive slots on the track - so it happens.
Several mags now do track days, so it feels like all the elements are already happening, but need bringing together. Ford and mini clubs will hold shows at tracks where there are your various stalls, owners cars, turn up and drive slots on the track - so it happens.
Just throwing my two penneth in here, as I think this thread is pretty important to all of us remotely involved in kit cars either as a fan, a driver, or a manufacturer.
I agree in essence with pretty much all that's being said here and particularly Russ's comments and suggestions. I think the whole show thing really needs a complete rethink and I also very very much think that we should all be pulling together rather than trying to compete against. I set up a web site last year in order to try and facilitate this but I have to admit that I've been pretty busy and have somewhat neglected it.(those who would like to get involved and have some collaborative discussions about how we improve our niche industry can message me and I'll give you a link and log on)
Mirach has also raised a very important pointer as to where things could go if we don't do what the bikers are doing and start working together and wave the flag for not only kits but also for our rights to be individuals and be allowed to 'customise' our property the way we want them. Now obviously there's limits to this but make no mistake if we leave things to the powers that be we'll all have to pay through the nose for everything and will only be allowed to have what the corporates give us that make them huge profits.
We have a fantastic heritage here in the UK which includes some of the finest cars of their kind. We have been innovators and had a superb engineering background which is one reason why in motorsport at least there's barely any other country out there that can come close to the Brits.
If you have a look at our motor industry (what's left of it anyway) you'll see that a fair few of them actually started off as kit cars. Noble, Marcos, TVR, Ultima, Ginetta even Lotus. We need to stand together and help make a success of this wonderful industry we are part of and work together because if we don't then the EU will have us where we can't even change a light bulb without having a qualified engineer do it for us! It's happened in Italy and several other EU countries too. What does sadly amuse me though is that it's not at all unusual to find these so called qualified engineers know less about cars than we do but of course there's reams and reams of expensive paper certificates that line the walls of the offices that say that they know more than us.
We build these cars, we know this industry, and together we all do a pretty fine job of producing some amazing machines. We need to celebrate this and show the powers that be that we are the best people to keep this alive and fall foul to the Latin saying "Illegitimi non carborundum"
So getting back to the show thing I think yep we do need to have a rethink on this and get together to make something that people want to support. Actually if you look at the Motorshows for the big boys you'll see they've had to do the same. The show's that are a success are far more than just some carpeted patches of concrete floor in a community centre. Audience participation is the key. And I'm happy to help with anything to get these shows to be flagships we're proud to be part of, we're all shouting the same thing really so let's make it work. We've been talking with our compatriates in the industry a while now and I know it's possible to do something so we're up for it.
I agree in essence with pretty much all that's being said here and particularly Russ's comments and suggestions. I think the whole show thing really needs a complete rethink and I also very very much think that we should all be pulling together rather than trying to compete against. I set up a web site last year in order to try and facilitate this but I have to admit that I've been pretty busy and have somewhat neglected it.(those who would like to get involved and have some collaborative discussions about how we improve our niche industry can message me and I'll give you a link and log on)
Mirach has also raised a very important pointer as to where things could go if we don't do what the bikers are doing and start working together and wave the flag for not only kits but also for our rights to be individuals and be allowed to 'customise' our property the way we want them. Now obviously there's limits to this but make no mistake if we leave things to the powers that be we'll all have to pay through the nose for everything and will only be allowed to have what the corporates give us that make them huge profits.
We have a fantastic heritage here in the UK which includes some of the finest cars of their kind. We have been innovators and had a superb engineering background which is one reason why in motorsport at least there's barely any other country out there that can come close to the Brits.
If you have a look at our motor industry (what's left of it anyway) you'll see that a fair few of them actually started off as kit cars. Noble, Marcos, TVR, Ultima, Ginetta even Lotus. We need to stand together and help make a success of this wonderful industry we are part of and work together because if we don't then the EU will have us where we can't even change a light bulb without having a qualified engineer do it for us! It's happened in Italy and several other EU countries too. What does sadly amuse me though is that it's not at all unusual to find these so called qualified engineers know less about cars than we do but of course there's reams and reams of expensive paper certificates that line the walls of the offices that say that they know more than us.
We build these cars, we know this industry, and together we all do a pretty fine job of producing some amazing machines. We need to celebrate this and show the powers that be that we are the best people to keep this alive and fall foul to the Latin saying "Illegitimi non carborundum"
So getting back to the show thing I think yep we do need to have a rethink on this and get together to make something that people want to support. Actually if you look at the Motorshows for the big boys you'll see they've had to do the same. The show's that are a success are far more than just some carpeted patches of concrete floor in a community centre. Audience participation is the key. And I'm happy to help with anything to get these shows to be flagships we're proud to be part of, we're all shouting the same thing really so let's make it work. We've been talking with our compatriates in the industry a while now and I know it's possible to do something so we're up for it.
Edited by qdos on Thursday 29th September 11:05
Kit Car shows can be good ,bad or average. Ive been in touch with the game a long time !W.Ihat they will never be is all things to every one ! the numbers of people that attend are swelled by wannabee's tyre kickers and dreamers they unfortunatly subsidise the true enthusiast .I belong to RHOCAR [Robin hood owner] I ve attended usually Newark , Stoneleigh, Stafford ,Donnington, Peterboro [when it ran]and various others not particularly kits ,We usualy have agood turn out of members and a hard core that stop for 2 days and enjoy all of the camping bit ,but any one who wants show room type attention and test drives etc are not to well catered for .I attend mainly for social reasons ,to see members from parts ofthe country away from me and pick a few necersaries for my car, 2days and I would be bored titless. If prospective buyers want to see a particular model in detail I would advise them to go to the numerouse open days or organise apersonal visit .Ive seen shows from both sides and what I've seen I have enjoyed Think that as said 3 good ones would be enough but they have to be good , no parking in muddy feilds well away from the main show etc yes they will be expensive but what isn't now my ops only
One thing that concerns me is that when I go to Exeter I actually recognise quite a few of the MOP. That is worrying and appears to be common across the rest of the shows to an extent. I stand at Newark and see faces from last year, still looking, still thinking, not yet ready to buy but still interested. It's always good to catch up with customers from a few years back and hear the tales of their progress but that does not support the days sales targets.
Have we(manufacturers/show organsiers)failed to attract sufficient new potential business? The Motoring media tend to leave kits well alone apart from our kit dedicated publications which are great but when you see the cost of an advert in say Top Gear magazine you would need to be brave to place one especially considering they are unlikely to feature your car in the editorial section.
Chicken and egg situation, do I pay a fortune to stand at Autosport, fingers crossed I reach a new audience. They must be making a fortune on that show but they get away with it. Kit shows do need to change or clearly they will fail. A field full of kits that are mainly similar to each other does not seem like a major attraction to me, and they all get in for free which does not help pay for the facility. The cars in those fields are also on show in the halls for new potential customers to see. The club life that is promoted in the fields is very important though but I can't think of ANY other show, cars or not where the majority get in for free.
We all seem to agree that action on wheels is required, and as I said some pages back a cheap track in the Northish with a large basic marquee for exhibitors, and success, maybe Blyton, but the boss never returned my calls or emails.
Shakespere County Raceway is about £3000k for a weekend show.
I have considered putting on an action show myself but feel it may be seen as inappropriate as I am a manufacturer.
Next year there will need to be changes to our scene, that's a definite.
Have we(manufacturers/show organsiers)failed to attract sufficient new potential business? The Motoring media tend to leave kits well alone apart from our kit dedicated publications which are great but when you see the cost of an advert in say Top Gear magazine you would need to be brave to place one especially considering they are unlikely to feature your car in the editorial section.
Chicken and egg situation, do I pay a fortune to stand at Autosport, fingers crossed I reach a new audience. They must be making a fortune on that show but they get away with it. Kit shows do need to change or clearly they will fail. A field full of kits that are mainly similar to each other does not seem like a major attraction to me, and they all get in for free which does not help pay for the facility. The cars in those fields are also on show in the halls for new potential customers to see. The club life that is promoted in the fields is very important though but I can't think of ANY other show, cars or not where the majority get in for free.
We all seem to agree that action on wheels is required, and as I said some pages back a cheap track in the Northish with a large basic marquee for exhibitors, and success, maybe Blyton, but the boss never returned my calls or emails.
Shakespere County Raceway is about £3000k for a weekend show.
I have considered putting on an action show myself but feel it may be seen as inappropriate as I am a manufacturer.
Next year there will need to be changes to our scene, that's a definite.
Unfortunately I think next year is going to be extremely difficult for every business in the UK and very probably throughout the western world.
Clearly as the driving force behind Mills Experimental Vehicles you have an excellent perception of the UK market. I wish all the Kit Car Manufacturers had the same understanding and energy.
Fact is they do not and I can see a heavy toll on the remaining Kit Car manufacturers particularly the Seven clone makers. I really think a significant number of Kit Cars` will disappear. I just cannot see the A series engine, for example, lovely though it was fifty years ago when I was first driving, as a serious base for modern kit cars.
I do not want this to happen but I do think that significant parts of the industry are simply not keeping up with the changes needed.
I understand the reticence of Den Tanner and yourself, and indeed every other manufacturer, about the cost/benefit advantages or otherwise of expensive shows and exhibitions.
This is a good time in business to concentrate on core activities and stay clear of expansion. Expansion in a falling market, unless you are very wealthy, is the quickest way to invite and business failure of which I know. It should be avoided if at all possible.
My main take on this is that the Kit Car market needs to move from the evocative but very old technology of projects like A series based cars or Citroen 2CV based cars and move right out into the front of modern high performance lightweight projects offering much better environmental returns and consumption and a much more dynamic product.
Hence my suggestion of a Kit Car maker or magazine sponsoring a competition to discover today's Colin Chapman. I really think the magazines could make this work in both circulation return and creating interest in building Kit Cars which might the roll on to assist in better shows and displays of the product.
That's my take. What does everybody else think?
Clearly as the driving force behind Mills Experimental Vehicles you have an excellent perception of the UK market. I wish all the Kit Car Manufacturers had the same understanding and energy.
Fact is they do not and I can see a heavy toll on the remaining Kit Car manufacturers particularly the Seven clone makers. I really think a significant number of Kit Cars` will disappear. I just cannot see the A series engine, for example, lovely though it was fifty years ago when I was first driving, as a serious base for modern kit cars.
I do not want this to happen but I do think that significant parts of the industry are simply not keeping up with the changes needed.
I understand the reticence of Den Tanner and yourself, and indeed every other manufacturer, about the cost/benefit advantages or otherwise of expensive shows and exhibitions.
This is a good time in business to concentrate on core activities and stay clear of expansion. Expansion in a falling market, unless you are very wealthy, is the quickest way to invite and business failure of which I know. It should be avoided if at all possible.
My main take on this is that the Kit Car market needs to move from the evocative but very old technology of projects like A series based cars or Citroen 2CV based cars and move right out into the front of modern high performance lightweight projects offering much better environmental returns and consumption and a much more dynamic product.
Hence my suggestion of a Kit Car maker or magazine sponsoring a competition to discover today's Colin Chapman. I really think the magazines could make this work in both circulation return and creating interest in building Kit Cars which might the roll on to assist in better shows and displays of the product.
That's my take. What does everybody else think?
I really don't see that many A series or 2CV based kits being advertised these days - you seem to be implying that a lot of the industry is based on old tech like that, but I don't see it. I'm sure they're there but not in a big way.
Sierras, yes, although they are on the way out and every manufacturer seems to know that, and be developing alternatives.
Most new kits seem to be focus, MX5 or BMW based from what I see.
Sierras, yes, although they are on the way out and every manufacturer seems to know that, and be developing alternatives.
Most new kits seem to be focus, MX5 or BMW based from what I see.
i think there will always be a market of some sort for what i would term a cheap BASIC kit, that meaning ,not everybody has the knowledge or the funds to build a car that is run on ecu's and throttle bodies but is however capable of changing the points on their crossflow. this is the whole point of the specialist car market,not everyone wants to open the bonnet, scratch their head and phone a main dealer with a limitless credit card. make no mistake, if we all sit back, it will lead to kit cars being permitted only if built with all new parts inc cats, followed by type approval, followed by crash testing and n,cap ratings it wont stop until we are all gone.
back to the show debate: i know of at least 4 other manufacturers that would be interested in working together,so i personally think this is an avenue worth persueing, possibly involving the modified lot and some of the classic boys as well, no hi-cost rubber bun vans, a marqee doing hog roasts all excess proceeds from the whole show into charity .some famous faces etc etc, anything to bring people through the doors.
we all know that if we let kevin and tracy out on a track in their modified saxo that they have spent 15k modifying, kevin will then want the kit car that passes him like he's not moving! or all of them!! no offence to anyone called kevin and tracy!
back to the show debate: i know of at least 4 other manufacturers that would be interested in working together,so i personally think this is an avenue worth persueing, possibly involving the modified lot and some of the classic boys as well, no hi-cost rubber bun vans, a marqee doing hog roasts all excess proceeds from the whole show into charity .some famous faces etc etc, anything to bring people through the doors.
we all know that if we let kevin and tracy out on a track in their modified saxo that they have spent 15k modifying, kevin will then want the kit car that passes him like he's not moving! or all of them!! no offence to anyone called kevin and tracy!
A specific point on Stafford is that, as has already been noted, we are in the middle of an economic turndown. As a result, apart from the market being down generally, there will also be a tendency for show attendees, whether MOPs, current builders/owners or indeed manufacturers, to cut back and just do one show this year.
If this is the case, the one show that most of them would pick would be Stoneleigh.
I don't reckon that the Stafford show (in its recent form) offered anything that Stoneleigh wouldn't do better and it's only an hour up the road. So, unless you missed out on Stoneleigh for some reason, why go to Stafford?
In these economically challenging times, a show in Stafford is probably a little redundant.
On kit car shows more generally, it's really good to hear so many ideas being suggested, but other than trying to get the whole industry to pull together, I don't really see much that hasn't been tried before in some form. Everybody seems to think that putting cars on a track is a good idea, but it doesn't seem to have worked before - what makes you think it will work now?
Donnington seemed to work for a while, what went wrong there? Did the track get too expensive? Or did they feel that they wanted to move up-market?
If this is the case, the one show that most of them would pick would be Stoneleigh.
I don't reckon that the Stafford show (in its recent form) offered anything that Stoneleigh wouldn't do better and it's only an hour up the road. So, unless you missed out on Stoneleigh for some reason, why go to Stafford?
In these economically challenging times, a show in Stafford is probably a little redundant.
On kit car shows more generally, it's really good to hear so many ideas being suggested, but other than trying to get the whole industry to pull together, I don't really see much that hasn't been tried before in some form. Everybody seems to think that putting cars on a track is a good idea, but it doesn't seem to have worked before - what makes you think it will work now?
Donnington seemed to work for a while, what went wrong there? Did the track get too expensive? Or did they feel that they wanted to move up-market?
how about teaming up with the people that run Trax at silverstone? sept date, massive spaces, tracktime available and managed by them, and the existing (chavvy) show is slowing in terms of crowd and clubs, from what we saw, not as busy as previous yrs. i bet you could pick up a massive portion of the venue and tie it in with the existing show to keep costs down while being able to offer tracktime etc. might be good?
I used to go the the Harrogate kit car show until that folded a few years ago. 
I've been to Stoneleigh a few times too. I didn't go this year as I went in 2010 and, if I am honest, I thought it would be a long drive to see the same old stuff.
In 2010, I took a friend and my son to Stoneleigh and we did the Dakar 4x4 and Westfield experiences. As much as I like seeing the cars, I was not there to buy so for me it's about the whole show experience.
The Stoneleigh KC show in 1992/3 had a time trial stage around a designated car park where kit drivers could try their luck. I chose not to as I'm sure it would have finished off my aging my Dutton Sierra at the time! It was good to watch though, and probably sold a number of kits too. I guess Elfen Safety killed that off (or the public liability insurance). Either way, it felt more of an 'event' to me than my recent visits.
If the main point of a kit car show is to get orders for kits then you are going to want 'new blood' to go to these shows. After all, those arriving in a kit already have one (yes, I know there are serial KC builders but you get my drift). I'd say, mix it up. Have an all-inclusive car enthusiasts extraviganza with flags and whistles (and free to enter time trials) - whether it be mashed up with classic cars or modded motors... remember, either can be converted into a kit car!
I've been to Stoneleigh a few times too. I didn't go this year as I went in 2010 and, if I am honest, I thought it would be a long drive to see the same old stuff.
In 2010, I took a friend and my son to Stoneleigh and we did the Dakar 4x4 and Westfield experiences. As much as I like seeing the cars, I was not there to buy so for me it's about the whole show experience.
The Stoneleigh KC show in 1992/3 had a time trial stage around a designated car park where kit drivers could try their luck. I chose not to as I'm sure it would have finished off my aging my Dutton Sierra at the time! It was good to watch though, and probably sold a number of kits too. I guess Elfen Safety killed that off (or the public liability insurance). Either way, it felt more of an 'event' to me than my recent visits.
If the main point of a kit car show is to get orders for kits then you are going to want 'new blood' to go to these shows. After all, those arriving in a kit already have one (yes, I know there are serial KC builders but you get my drift). I'd say, mix it up. Have an all-inclusive car enthusiasts extraviganza with flags and whistles (and free to enter time trials) - whether it be mashed up with classic cars or modded motors... remember, either can be converted into a kit car!
qdos said:
Just throwing my two penneth in here, as I think this thread is pretty important to all of us remotely involved in kit cars either as a fan, a driver, or a manufacturer.
I agree in essence with pretty much all that's being said here and particularly Russ's comments and suggestions. I think the whole show thing really needs a complete rethink and I also very very much think that we should all be pulling together rather than trying to compete against. I set up a web site last year in order to try and facilitate this but I have to admit that I've been pretty busy and have somewhat neglected it.(those who would like to get involved and have some collaborative discussions about how we improve our niche industry can message me and I'll give you a link and log on)
Mirach has also raised a very important pointer as to where things could go if we don't do what the bikers are doing and start working together and wave the flag for not only kits but also for our rights to be individuals and be allowed to 'customise' our property the way we want them. Now obviously there's limits to this but make no mistake if we leave things to the powers that be we'll all have to pay through the nose for everything and will only be allowed to have what the corporates give us that make them huge profits.
We have a fantastic heritage here in the UK which includes some of the finest cars of their kind. We have been innovators and had a superb engineering background which is one reason why in motorsport at least there's barely any other country out there that can come close to the Brits.
If you have a look at our motor industry (what's left of it anyway) you'll see that a fair few of them actually started off as kit cars. Noble, Marcos, TVR, Ultima, Ginetta even Lotus. We need to stand together and help make a success of this wonderful industry we are part of and work together because if we don't then the EU will have us where we can't even change a light bulb without having a qualified engineer do it for us! It's happened in Italy and several other EU countries too. What does sadly amuse me though is that it's not at all unusual to find these so called qualified engineers know less about cars than we do but of course there's reams and reams of expensive paper certificates that line the walls of the offices that say that they know more than us.
We build these cars, we know this industry, and together we all do a pretty fine job of producing some amazing machines. We need to celebrate this and show the powers that be that we are the best people to keep this alive and fall foul to the Latin saying "Illegitimi non carborundum"
So getting back to the show thing I think yep we do need to have a rethink on this and get together to make something that people want to support. Actually if you look at the Motorshows for the big boys you'll see they've had to do the same. The show's that are a success are far more than just some carpeted patches of concrete floor in a community centre. Audience participation is the key. And I'm happy to help with anything to get these shows to be flagships we're proud to be part of, we're all shouting the same thing really so let's make it work. We've been talking with our compatriates in the industry a while now and I know it's possible to do something so we're up for it.
Surely it's "Noli Illegitimi Carborundum" I agree in essence with pretty much all that's being said here and particularly Russ's comments and suggestions. I think the whole show thing really needs a complete rethink and I also very very much think that we should all be pulling together rather than trying to compete against. I set up a web site last year in order to try and facilitate this but I have to admit that I've been pretty busy and have somewhat neglected it.(those who would like to get involved and have some collaborative discussions about how we improve our niche industry can message me and I'll give you a link and log on)
Mirach has also raised a very important pointer as to where things could go if we don't do what the bikers are doing and start working together and wave the flag for not only kits but also for our rights to be individuals and be allowed to 'customise' our property the way we want them. Now obviously there's limits to this but make no mistake if we leave things to the powers that be we'll all have to pay through the nose for everything and will only be allowed to have what the corporates give us that make them huge profits.
We have a fantastic heritage here in the UK which includes some of the finest cars of their kind. We have been innovators and had a superb engineering background which is one reason why in motorsport at least there's barely any other country out there that can come close to the Brits.
If you have a look at our motor industry (what's left of it anyway) you'll see that a fair few of them actually started off as kit cars. Noble, Marcos, TVR, Ultima, Ginetta even Lotus. We need to stand together and help make a success of this wonderful industry we are part of and work together because if we don't then the EU will have us where we can't even change a light bulb without having a qualified engineer do it for us! It's happened in Italy and several other EU countries too. What does sadly amuse me though is that it's not at all unusual to find these so called qualified engineers know less about cars than we do but of course there's reams and reams of expensive paper certificates that line the walls of the offices that say that they know more than us.
We build these cars, we know this industry, and together we all do a pretty fine job of producing some amazing machines. We need to celebrate this and show the powers that be that we are the best people to keep this alive and fall foul to the Latin saying "Illegitimi non carborundum"
So getting back to the show thing I think yep we do need to have a rethink on this and get together to make something that people want to support. Actually if you look at the Motorshows for the big boys you'll see they've had to do the same. The show's that are a success are far more than just some carpeted patches of concrete floor in a community centre. Audience participation is the key. And I'm happy to help with anything to get these shows to be flagships we're proud to be part of, we're all shouting the same thing really so let's make it work. We've been talking with our compatriates in the industry a while now and I know it's possible to do something so we're up for it.
Edited by qdos on Thursday 29th September 11:05
Interesting thread and there's some very valid points made here.
For my sins apart from my kit car my other hobbies include model aircraft flying and they have exactly the same problem of falling numbers at their shows. General consensus seems to be that more and more people just don't want to "do" things, they want to buy them. Most model shops have closed due to the fact that no-one builds models from scratch anymre and I guess "t'internet" has a lot to do with it but in general blokes just don't have the hand skills or desire to make stuff anymore. Hence the decline in modelling and kitcar building.
Since kit car building is primarily aimed at blokes, then maybe it'd be an idea getting more than one bloke activity tie up to make a joint show. So model building and kitcars and maybe golf all having one big show. Seem like an idea?
For my sins apart from my kit car my other hobbies include model aircraft flying and they have exactly the same problem of falling numbers at their shows. General consensus seems to be that more and more people just don't want to "do" things, they want to buy them. Most model shops have closed due to the fact that no-one builds models from scratch anymre and I guess "t'internet" has a lot to do with it but in general blokes just don't have the hand skills or desire to make stuff anymore. Hence the decline in modelling and kitcar building.
Since kit car building is primarily aimed at blokes, then maybe it'd be an idea getting more than one bloke activity tie up to make a joint show. So model building and kitcars and maybe golf all having one big show. Seem like an idea?
I hope not to offend anyone but here is a sad but true fact.
The average age of a kit car show visitor is getting older. Take me forinstance, I became seriously interested in kit cars when I was 18 or 19. I have maintained an interest ever since and vistied many many shows before becoming involved in the industry. I am now 53. We need too attract 18 year olds. Now that is not going to be easy when todays young appear to be more interested in a virtual world, AKA the Playstation generation. But that cannot apply to all 18-30 year olds can it.
So how do we attract new blood?
The average age of a kit car show visitor is getting older. Take me forinstance, I became seriously interested in kit cars when I was 18 or 19. I have maintained an interest ever since and vistied many many shows before becoming involved in the industry. I am now 53. We need too attract 18 year olds. Now that is not going to be easy when todays young appear to be more interested in a virtual world, AKA the Playstation generation. But that cannot apply to all 18-30 year olds can it.
So how do we attract new blood?
Stuart Mills said:
I hope not to offend anyone but here is a sad but true fact.
The average age of a kit car show visitor is getting older. Take me forinstance, I became seriously interested in kit cars when I was 18 or 19. I have maintained an interest ever since and vistied many many shows before becoming involved in the industry. I am now 53. We need too attract 18 year olds. Now that is not going to be easy when todays young appear to be more interested in a virtual world, AKA the Playstation generation. But that cannot apply to all 18-30 year olds can it.
So how do we attract new blood?
The body conversions seem to be attracting new blood as do the more track based models.The average age of a kit car show visitor is getting older. Take me forinstance, I became seriously interested in kit cars when I was 18 or 19. I have maintained an interest ever since and vistied many many shows before becoming involved in the industry. I am now 53. We need too attract 18 year olds. Now that is not going to be easy when todays young appear to be more interested in a virtual world, AKA the Playstation generation. But that cannot apply to all 18-30 year olds can it.
So how do we attract new blood?
It's funny really as youngsters pay a lot less insurance on a kit car than a Corsa.
A move to new donor cars like the MX5 can only help as there a lot of younger people out there with those quietly whatching them rot away while the blow thousands on Turbos and superchargers.
Making more affordable kits has to be the way forward (or back?)single donor, cheap to build, lots of fun!
Perhaps someone should be making low cost, lightweight MX5 based kits with a track bias? What do you think Stuart?
Finally a friend of mine builds kitcars for a living. He has been trying for a couple of years to find a youngster to train up. No one either wants to work or those that do can't even drill a hole. I bet they are good on GT5 though.
DEN TANNER said:
Don't hold your breath....
October's Kit Car mag is printing, and there's nothing concerning Stafford in it (apart from news we gleaned there).
There might be something in November's edition. Problem is that, probably for the first time in my life, I'm lost for words. One of the reasons I'm here is to gauge public opinion such that I can distil my thoughts in order to make a 'correct' report.
I've been buying the Kit Car magazine most months since 2003. Many of the articles and builds in the past 8 years have been a great inspiration and source of information for my own car build, especially the articles by its technical editor, Nigel.October's Kit Car mag is printing, and there's nothing concerning Stafford in it (apart from news we gleaned there).
There might be something in November's edition. Problem is that, probably for the first time in my life, I'm lost for words. One of the reasons I'm here is to gauge public opinion such that I can distil my thoughts in order to make a 'correct' report.
However, I browsed through October's edition in that well known news agents today and was surprised (and somewhat disappointed) to find about 19 pages of copy about the Stafford Show. Some of it reprinted from the previous month.
Sorry Den, but I didn't buy it this month....
Kit cars to the majority of us posting here make sense, that's because we've owned them and or built them, some of us even manufacture them too. We trundle off to the shows year in year out and we see the same people wandering round looking at the cars in the halls and some venture out to the owners lots out in the car park or grass verges.
However as we've all noted things aren't changing and the only thing that is really is the footfall. It's getting smaller each time. Absolutely everyone would like to see that footfall change in the other direction and get it growing rather than shrinking.
Now I dare say a fair few of you reading this go to other shows too and I'll bet we've each been to shows that have had bigger attendances than some of the kit car shows. I've recently been to one that was all about the A Series and I won't hesitate to say that it had a bigger and better attendance than it appears that Stafford had but this could be said also about some of the other shows too which have been organised by people other than Den so it's not really Den's fault here at all that our shows seem to be shrinking. Stuart is absolutely right that we see the same old people year in year out, but Kit Cars are not like production cars. There's very few buyers who go into the showroom and place an order for a red one in the Sport trim and expect delivery in 6 weeks. Kits are much more a leisure/lifestyle thing and most people savour the whole process often taking up to 3 years to make any progress.
What is sadly also true is that the younger generations don't seem to be doing much other than playing on their X-boxes and maybe at best venturing into putting chrome effect rear lights onto the Saxo but that's mostly the fault of the Nanny State and the academics telling our children that they will all grow up being either Slick city traders or at worst X-Factor superstars and that engineering was a dirty filthy job that the Victorians enforced on the down trodden masses before the dawning of the electronic age.
So what we have to do is change this perception and show that Kit Cars are exciting, fun and something that anyone can take part in. Sadly hiring a community centre doesn't cut the mustard these days, it may have once upon a time (my first kit car show I went to was at a cricket ground in a rural Surrey village it worked for me but that was over 30 years ago!)
We're all going to have to get much more proactive and get together to see things change and pull in the same direction rather than just moan and rubbish the people who have at least been trying to promote the Kit Car scene. If that includes A Series engines then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, what we want is simply shows that are better attended and more enticing to everyone. We're in a recession so we're just going to need to work harder together and be more flexible if we're going to make a success of showing our cars.
However as we've all noted things aren't changing and the only thing that is really is the footfall. It's getting smaller each time. Absolutely everyone would like to see that footfall change in the other direction and get it growing rather than shrinking.
Now I dare say a fair few of you reading this go to other shows too and I'll bet we've each been to shows that have had bigger attendances than some of the kit car shows. I've recently been to one that was all about the A Series and I won't hesitate to say that it had a bigger and better attendance than it appears that Stafford had but this could be said also about some of the other shows too which have been organised by people other than Den so it's not really Den's fault here at all that our shows seem to be shrinking. Stuart is absolutely right that we see the same old people year in year out, but Kit Cars are not like production cars. There's very few buyers who go into the showroom and place an order for a red one in the Sport trim and expect delivery in 6 weeks. Kits are much more a leisure/lifestyle thing and most people savour the whole process often taking up to 3 years to make any progress.
What is sadly also true is that the younger generations don't seem to be doing much other than playing on their X-boxes and maybe at best venturing into putting chrome effect rear lights onto the Saxo but that's mostly the fault of the Nanny State and the academics telling our children that they will all grow up being either Slick city traders or at worst X-Factor superstars and that engineering was a dirty filthy job that the Victorians enforced on the down trodden masses before the dawning of the electronic age.
So what we have to do is change this perception and show that Kit Cars are exciting, fun and something that anyone can take part in. Sadly hiring a community centre doesn't cut the mustard these days, it may have once upon a time (my first kit car show I went to was at a cricket ground in a rural Surrey village it worked for me but that was over 30 years ago!)
We're all going to have to get much more proactive and get together to see things change and pull in the same direction rather than just moan and rubbish the people who have at least been trying to promote the Kit Car scene. If that includes A Series engines then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, what we want is simply shows that are better attended and more enticing to everyone. We're in a recession so we're just going to need to work harder together and be more flexible if we're going to make a success of showing our cars.
Yes, there is a downturn in both the sale of kits and the numbers of punters attending the shows. Thats to be expected in the current climate; All leasure businesses are feeling the pinch. The numbers looking to buy will be effected far more than those just coming for a look and to meet up with mates. So sales will fall and which companies survive is still to be seen. Eventually it'll pick up again to some extent and those that do survive will get a bigger slice of the pie.
The problem at Stafford was not this though, but with the organisation (over several years) as Den has (to his credit) admitted.
The problem at Stafford was not this though, but with the organisation (over several years) as Den has (to his credit) admitted.
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