Discussion
DEN TANNER said:
Can you seriously see the Arial Atom next to your Exocet? Or Caterham alongside GBSC? Or perhaps Ferrari alongside MR2 kits?
Like this? 
errr yep we do it every year at TRAX and I am sure I can get some Lambos, Ferraris, Atoms, Nobles and Ultimas at a track day orientated event with kits on show, Any one interested then drop me a line.
I think one of the main underlying issues in the industry is the younger generation just don't want to build a car full stop.
I regard myself as young, despite bring 38 and built my first kit aged 30. I had wanted to do one since I was about 25'ish, but did not have the space or financial means until 30. Otherwise I would have built one sooner.
However I am well aware there are (were at least before the credit crisis) thousands of 20 years olds with the financial means to blow £10+k on chavving up Corsas and Saxos , but why do they not want to build a kitcar??
I think several reasons:
1) Firstly and most importantly when I grew up I used to play with Lego, Meccano, Scalextric ( great for learning basic "tuning", Airfix and just plain old making and inventing new paper aeroplanes from A4. Kids hardly do that now, they just play computer games so have never even put together a few plastic bricks let alone fancy bolting £10k of "kitcar" together. Chavving up a hatchback just involves handing over cash.
Secondly, my first car was a mini, it always had something to fiddle with or improve , and I raced them when i was 15 so that ignited a desire to take things
further. Modern cars don't give that flexibility, and always seem to start on a cold morning so they are not forced to get the toolkit out
Thirdly there are no kitcar meets where get their baps out for a wheelspin and a bag of chips, happens every week near Ikea, Croydon.
So, without being a doom merchant, coupled with rising costs of making kits and legislation making it more difficult, I fear by and large the masses now under 30 will NEVER want to build their own cars and that is a very sad end to a very great and eccentric British pastime...
UNLESS we ( and I mean everyone involved in building, selling and driving kitcars ) can interest the younger generations. I have personally taken at least 8 kitcar virgins for a ride in one of
my kits and they have gone on to purchase one, people who would never considered one before. 2 have built, 6 have purchased completed cars. Pro-active I believe is the way forward, shed any image of bearded men nailing bits of old saloon car into a fibreglass shell. Needs to be high-tech, loud, sexy, fun, fast, affordable, desirable, modern, safe, economical, thrilling, enjoyable and accessible. No more clubstands with 3 cars and a picnic table behind them, bonnets up with rusty components on show. It needs to be 2012, not 1980.
Maybe society as a whole has changed so much that even traditional hobbies like fishing are on the way out, and an expensive hobby like ours will be hit
even harder. Maybe we will have to just accept it, especially as an Elise can be had for just over £5k which would just about buy you a basic pile of kit parts nowadays. BUT I don't believe it, there are kids and teenagers out there who nature will naturally select to be inquisitive, adventurous and mechanically adept, they just need to be steered in the right direction. I think things do need to change, Stiggy has the right idea that's for sure, and thanks to costs and legislation
panel conversions needing no IVA may
be the bulk sellers in the future. I am sure there is more than one manufacturer that has sold no kits at all in the last 12 months, and some that have sold many... The industry needs to react quickly if their core business is the cars themselves.
I regard myself as young, despite bring 38 and built my first kit aged 30. I had wanted to do one since I was about 25'ish, but did not have the space or financial means until 30. Otherwise I would have built one sooner.
However I am well aware there are (were at least before the credit crisis) thousands of 20 years olds with the financial means to blow £10+k on chavving up Corsas and Saxos , but why do they not want to build a kitcar??
I think several reasons:
1) Firstly and most importantly when I grew up I used to play with Lego, Meccano, Scalextric ( great for learning basic "tuning", Airfix and just plain old making and inventing new paper aeroplanes from A4. Kids hardly do that now, they just play computer games so have never even put together a few plastic bricks let alone fancy bolting £10k of "kitcar" together. Chavving up a hatchback just involves handing over cash.
Secondly, my first car was a mini, it always had something to fiddle with or improve , and I raced them when i was 15 so that ignited a desire to take things
further. Modern cars don't give that flexibility, and always seem to start on a cold morning so they are not forced to get the toolkit out
Thirdly there are no kitcar meets where get their baps out for a wheelspin and a bag of chips, happens every week near Ikea, Croydon.
So, without being a doom merchant, coupled with rising costs of making kits and legislation making it more difficult, I fear by and large the masses now under 30 will NEVER want to build their own cars and that is a very sad end to a very great and eccentric British pastime...
UNLESS we ( and I mean everyone involved in building, selling and driving kitcars ) can interest the younger generations. I have personally taken at least 8 kitcar virgins for a ride in one of
my kits and they have gone on to purchase one, people who would never considered one before. 2 have built, 6 have purchased completed cars. Pro-active I believe is the way forward, shed any image of bearded men nailing bits of old saloon car into a fibreglass shell. Needs to be high-tech, loud, sexy, fun, fast, affordable, desirable, modern, safe, economical, thrilling, enjoyable and accessible. No more clubstands with 3 cars and a picnic table behind them, bonnets up with rusty components on show. It needs to be 2012, not 1980.
Maybe society as a whole has changed so much that even traditional hobbies like fishing are on the way out, and an expensive hobby like ours will be hit
even harder. Maybe we will have to just accept it, especially as an Elise can be had for just over £5k which would just about buy you a basic pile of kit parts nowadays. BUT I don't believe it, there are kids and teenagers out there who nature will naturally select to be inquisitive, adventurous and mechanically adept, they just need to be steered in the right direction. I think things do need to change, Stiggy has the right idea that's for sure, and thanks to costs and legislation
panel conversions needing no IVA may
be the bulk sellers in the future. I am sure there is more than one manufacturer that has sold no kits at all in the last 12 months, and some that have sold many... The industry needs to react quickly if their core business is the cars themselves.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/XmscnuhL.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/YWG74BES" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/YWG74BES.jpg)
Many varied and interesting points.
There has been talk of the average age of people at shows raising. I would be interested in knowing about the % of woman attending. Have the manufacturers ever tried marketing to woman? I have attended shows over the years with a number of feamail friends some interested in building a kit some not. Most could have been sold a kit or car had they felt better received. Some have gone to car modification because that felt that it was a more manageable project.
There has been talk of the average age of people at shows raising. I would be interested in knowing about the % of woman attending. Have the manufacturers ever tried marketing to woman? I have attended shows over the years with a number of feamail friends some interested in building a kit some not. Most could have been sold a kit or car had they felt better received. Some have gone to car modification because that felt that it was a more manageable project.
Great point re the female potential customer. Julie my business partner has often talked to ladies regarding them building one. Sadly she has not made a sale to a lady yet. Here is a picture of the Exocet that Julie built, IVA'd and drove to the Stafford show in the rain. I had to help in a few areas but I guess ladies would have no trouble getting experienced male assistance if needed. 
Edited by Stuart Mills on Wednesday 5th October 09:14
Reading this, about to venture into the kit car market for the first time (off to look at one on saturday! Whhhheeeeeeee! 
), it saddens me a little.
I've been involved with VWs for years, and used to go to one or two of the shows... but I have to say, no matter my love of the cars, I must admit I find them a little boring now. Wandering around a field looking at car after car that, all in all, are pretty much the same. I have never camped there. I imagine (no disrespect) that I would feel the same way about a kit car show on the second visit.
I know these shows offer camping for the 2 days of the show. What I can tell you is that the campsite business is booming. This is directly due to the reduced disposable income that people have - so folk are not going abroad, and choosing to holiday within the UK's borders. I have heard anecdotal evidence of caravan/camper van sales up 200-400% this year. Hard evidence that I can offer is that after taking over our campsite business from my parents this season, my dad has informed me that this has been the best year he's ever seen, in the last 25 years he's run the business. The weather has had a huge effect on this, obviously, as it's largely dry around here (Shropshire) this season.
So - what I'm leading up to is perhaps a re-focusing of objective: Instead of having a 'car show' where people camp (which obv. only draws in the market that is interested in the first place), what about reversing that idea and attaching a 'car show' to a campsite? The campsite will be busy anyway, as people are on holiday. Now I realise that a season long (with us it's April-Oct) presence at a campsite is not possible at all. What might be possible though is a 'stand' with one of your shining examples of a car that campers can look at, with information, phone numbers, and on busy weekends (such as Easter Bank hol,) a representative there who can hang around and answer questions, perhaps take people out for a test drive. While a lot of people might not bother going to a car show, I know that many more will enjoy looking at a really nicely turned out Westfield (for example, maybe a bad one as they are quite large and may not be interested) as they are beautiful pieces of machinery.
Perhaps the campsite owner could put it up on their website, and pre-book a test drive for people who know it's there and a company representative could be on hand to take them out in it. Or perhaps a customer from a previous visit would know it was there and would pay for a trip out in it? (I know some customers have returned 4 times this year to our site!). Or perhaps, the manufacturer could pay a nominal ground rent, with a v.small percentage to the campsite owner if any orders result. I don't know. There's any number of possibilities.
I know I have certainly thought about how to monetise my own impending kit car investment, by potentially hiring out the kit car to campers for an afternoon, or maybe taking them up Loton park hill climb (9 miles from me) in it or something. not thought about that bit properly as yet. It may yet turn out to not be practical, due to insurance, maintenance etc. etc.
Now, I can forsee some problems with logistics here, it would necessitate manufacturers travelling to the campsite in question - but you choose somewhere locally to you.
I don't know, I'm just throwing a few ideas out. With this in mind, if anyone is at all interested in any of this, then get in contact with me. We're currently attempting to explore ways to grow our business.
), it saddens me a little. I've been involved with VWs for years, and used to go to one or two of the shows... but I have to say, no matter my love of the cars, I must admit I find them a little boring now. Wandering around a field looking at car after car that, all in all, are pretty much the same. I have never camped there. I imagine (no disrespect) that I would feel the same way about a kit car show on the second visit.
I know these shows offer camping for the 2 days of the show. What I can tell you is that the campsite business is booming. This is directly due to the reduced disposable income that people have - so folk are not going abroad, and choosing to holiday within the UK's borders. I have heard anecdotal evidence of caravan/camper van sales up 200-400% this year. Hard evidence that I can offer is that after taking over our campsite business from my parents this season, my dad has informed me that this has been the best year he's ever seen, in the last 25 years he's run the business. The weather has had a huge effect on this, obviously, as it's largely dry around here (Shropshire) this season.
So - what I'm leading up to is perhaps a re-focusing of objective: Instead of having a 'car show' where people camp (which obv. only draws in the market that is interested in the first place), what about reversing that idea and attaching a 'car show' to a campsite? The campsite will be busy anyway, as people are on holiday. Now I realise that a season long (with us it's April-Oct) presence at a campsite is not possible at all. What might be possible though is a 'stand' with one of your shining examples of a car that campers can look at, with information, phone numbers, and on busy weekends (such as Easter Bank hol,) a representative there who can hang around and answer questions, perhaps take people out for a test drive. While a lot of people might not bother going to a car show, I know that many more will enjoy looking at a really nicely turned out Westfield (for example, maybe a bad one as they are quite large and may not be interested) as they are beautiful pieces of machinery.
Perhaps the campsite owner could put it up on their website, and pre-book a test drive for people who know it's there and a company representative could be on hand to take them out in it. Or perhaps a customer from a previous visit would know it was there and would pay for a trip out in it? (I know some customers have returned 4 times this year to our site!). Or perhaps, the manufacturer could pay a nominal ground rent, with a v.small percentage to the campsite owner if any orders result. I don't know. There's any number of possibilities.
I know I have certainly thought about how to monetise my own impending kit car investment, by potentially hiring out the kit car to campers for an afternoon, or maybe taking them up Loton park hill climb (9 miles from me) in it or something. not thought about that bit properly as yet. It may yet turn out to not be practical, due to insurance, maintenance etc. etc.
Now, I can forsee some problems with logistics here, it would necessitate manufacturers travelling to the campsite in question - but you choose somewhere locally to you.
I don't know, I'm just throwing a few ideas out. With this in mind, if anyone is at all interested in any of this, then get in contact with me. We're currently attempting to explore ways to grow our business.
I refer back to my post on page 5. The Stafford Show was my baby, but its roots go back to around 1980-1 when a young Peter Filby took a stand ay my International Custom Show at Bingley Hall, Birmingham in order to try and sell his new concept magazine - Alternative Cars.
In those days the show attracted in excess of 30,000 paying visitors (that's heads and not toes), and Peter must have been impressed as he tried to get me to promote a kit car show of which there may not have been any back then. To be truthful, I had enough on my plate with what was then a hugely supported custom show and I was concentrating hard on that, but I did vow that I would follow the progress of this industry.
By Autumn 1982 custom shows were seriously on the wane and I met with Peter Filby again for breakfast at the NEC motor show along with Bingley Hall's owner - one Anthony Maurice Frederick Bullimore to see if a joint venture was feasible. It probably was, Don Ford had yet to be persuaded to promote on his first kit car show at Stoneleigh, that would come in May 1983. The only fly in the ointment was AMFB who, how can I put this diplomatically?:- could not be trusted, so the project was still born, but not forgotten.
The idea was still mulling about in my mind when I visited the Manchester kit car show at Belle Vue in 1985. By now the industry was much bigger and Filby's magazines were expanding. I also heard that Manchester was not going to take place in 1986. Should I go for that? In the end I felt that there had to be a good financial reason for that show not to be repeated, though I not could think of one.
By September 1986 the idea of what I thought was well supported show going to waste, culminated in a visit to Belle Vue where I decided that there wasn't a good reason for it not to happen again, so I was minded to book the venue for March 1987, just two weeks before this icon of Manchester closed forever.
However before any show can go ahead a promoter must determine whether there will sufficient support, so I wrote to as many kit car manufacturers and trade exhibitors as possible and within a fortnight I had received enough phone calls and returned slips to make this a reality, so Belle Vue was confirmed for a late March 1987 date. The rest as they say is history, the show was a success, but it had a problem, it could not be repeated, so I had to look for another venue.
Although a quarter of a century has passed and nobody now has to write to anybody to ascertain their interest, the fundamental principles of holding a show (kit car or otherwise) still hold firm. These being...........
1) Will the event be supported? By that I initially mean CONTENT FIRST, an old adage which some manufacturers and traders never understood, despite it's complete simplicity. No content, nothing to show, no show - Hence CONTENT FIRST. The public is attracted by content and not an empty hall. Gaps in a hall are an organiser's nightmare. It is also quite impossible to install any public interest unless they know the quality of the content. Why oh why do traders still never, never see this after all these years and still parrot-like chant 'when the public comes, I will support the show'?
2) You must have a suitable venue. No venue, no show - hence no return to Manchester, despite an initial 11,700 attendance which Stafford never matched. However Bingley Hall, Stafford (yes the name was connected to Bingley Hall, Birmingham as the Birmingham Agricultural Society which owned the B'ham venue bought the ground in Stafford). Stafford was very suitable for an indoor car show, in that it was big, though not as big as today, accessible and could cope with large visitor numbers travelling by car as one would expect of a car show.
It was also cheaper than Belle Vue. Its main downside was that it was in Stafford, miles from any major population centre. Hence its best ever attendance of 9,500 (8,500 in its first year) and it always looks dowdy. Even worse when you have to sweep out autumn leaves in March, or arrive to discover a one foot wide trench and two feet deep which the hall owners forgot to tell you about, or the heating duct which never worked because the heater was never installed.
3) The date must be right. I chose the spring because most people are only too pleased to get out after being cooped up at home for 4 long winter months, particularly travelling in cars which are not always weather friendly. The industry itself was only too pleased to have an early season sales opportunity after six or more months of forced hibernation. Those looking for bits to complete cars for the summer felt it worth attending. The actual weather itself is less than important as 1987 saw a virtual hurricane in Manchester whilst 1988 saw the inaugural Stafford Show deluged by two days of incessant rain
4) Promotion and marketing. Only after a venue and some content has been secured, can the show be sold to the public. First stop were the industry magazines and then the local media which in those days had five excellent dailies, Birmingham Evening Mail, Birmingham Post, Wolverhampton Express and Star, Shropshire Star and Stoke Sentinel, all of whom gave tremendous support with their motoring correspondents taking active interest and always previewing the event with reports and photos of various exhibiting cars (those manufacturers which stayed at home could never benefit. Then came advertising on local radio which were then beginning to decline quite markedly from their heyday of mid seventies.
Finally and if you worked hard and were lucky, came television with evening news features on manufacturers, plus the modest affordable advertising which I remember cost £12,000 one year.
As impressive as that might all sound, make no mistake that the vast majority of people came from the magazines and in answer to those who think that there is a travelling band of people who visit all shows, (that may be true of a few) most people lived within 30 mile of the venue. That can be seen by the loss of 2,000 (3,000 in its first year of 1988) people from the north when the show moved from Manchester to Stafford. Thus every show had its own unique attendance. A fact that also was never really understood by some maunfacturers trying to increase their sales into new markets.
So as these principles hold true today, therein lies some of the reasons why Stafford is no longer viable. It cannot command adequate support from the trade, magazines are fragmented, the local media is but a shadow of itself and late summer never was a good time for the event. I'm sorry to say but there is nothing that anybody can do to revive past glories of this show. The only things a new promoter can do is to secure magazine support across the board (bearing in mind the very modest combined circulation of the magazines) and move the date back to the spring.
It isn't going to be me though. I am not convinced that the show has any future and I left in 1996 when 5,400 still visited. Figures like that would be akin to manna from heaven today. That and 58 manufacturers, 113 trade stands and 83 more jumblers in the Car Builder & Resoration Show which filled the Prestwood Centre in 1993.
You couldn't get that hands on experience on the internet and sadly perhaps not anywhere in Britain's shows either. Like custom car shows before them, kit car shows had their day in the sun and like all other living, breathing creatures, the sad day comes when they become life expired. So I now help people get their cars back from bailiffs following parking tickets.
However Stafford 1988 - 1996 will always remain a fond memory for me.
Apologies for typos. Eyes not quite what they were.
Ron Clark
Fair Parking
In those days the show attracted in excess of 30,000 paying visitors (that's heads and not toes), and Peter must have been impressed as he tried to get me to promote a kit car show of which there may not have been any back then. To be truthful, I had enough on my plate with what was then a hugely supported custom show and I was concentrating hard on that, but I did vow that I would follow the progress of this industry.
By Autumn 1982 custom shows were seriously on the wane and I met with Peter Filby again for breakfast at the NEC motor show along with Bingley Hall's owner - one Anthony Maurice Frederick Bullimore to see if a joint venture was feasible. It probably was, Don Ford had yet to be persuaded to promote on his first kit car show at Stoneleigh, that would come in May 1983. The only fly in the ointment was AMFB who, how can I put this diplomatically?:- could not be trusted, so the project was still born, but not forgotten.
The idea was still mulling about in my mind when I visited the Manchester kit car show at Belle Vue in 1985. By now the industry was much bigger and Filby's magazines were expanding. I also heard that Manchester was not going to take place in 1986. Should I go for that? In the end I felt that there had to be a good financial reason for that show not to be repeated, though I not could think of one.
By September 1986 the idea of what I thought was well supported show going to waste, culminated in a visit to Belle Vue where I decided that there wasn't a good reason for it not to happen again, so I was minded to book the venue for March 1987, just two weeks before this icon of Manchester closed forever.
However before any show can go ahead a promoter must determine whether there will sufficient support, so I wrote to as many kit car manufacturers and trade exhibitors as possible and within a fortnight I had received enough phone calls and returned slips to make this a reality, so Belle Vue was confirmed for a late March 1987 date. The rest as they say is history, the show was a success, but it had a problem, it could not be repeated, so I had to look for another venue.
Although a quarter of a century has passed and nobody now has to write to anybody to ascertain their interest, the fundamental principles of holding a show (kit car or otherwise) still hold firm. These being...........
1) Will the event be supported? By that I initially mean CONTENT FIRST, an old adage which some manufacturers and traders never understood, despite it's complete simplicity. No content, nothing to show, no show - Hence CONTENT FIRST. The public is attracted by content and not an empty hall. Gaps in a hall are an organiser's nightmare. It is also quite impossible to install any public interest unless they know the quality of the content. Why oh why do traders still never, never see this after all these years and still parrot-like chant 'when the public comes, I will support the show'?
2) You must have a suitable venue. No venue, no show - hence no return to Manchester, despite an initial 11,700 attendance which Stafford never matched. However Bingley Hall, Stafford (yes the name was connected to Bingley Hall, Birmingham as the Birmingham Agricultural Society which owned the B'ham venue bought the ground in Stafford). Stafford was very suitable for an indoor car show, in that it was big, though not as big as today, accessible and could cope with large visitor numbers travelling by car as one would expect of a car show.
It was also cheaper than Belle Vue. Its main downside was that it was in Stafford, miles from any major population centre. Hence its best ever attendance of 9,500 (8,500 in its first year) and it always looks dowdy. Even worse when you have to sweep out autumn leaves in March, or arrive to discover a one foot wide trench and two feet deep which the hall owners forgot to tell you about, or the heating duct which never worked because the heater was never installed.
3) The date must be right. I chose the spring because most people are only too pleased to get out after being cooped up at home for 4 long winter months, particularly travelling in cars which are not always weather friendly. The industry itself was only too pleased to have an early season sales opportunity after six or more months of forced hibernation. Those looking for bits to complete cars for the summer felt it worth attending. The actual weather itself is less than important as 1987 saw a virtual hurricane in Manchester whilst 1988 saw the inaugural Stafford Show deluged by two days of incessant rain
4) Promotion and marketing. Only after a venue and some content has been secured, can the show be sold to the public. First stop were the industry magazines and then the local media which in those days had five excellent dailies, Birmingham Evening Mail, Birmingham Post, Wolverhampton Express and Star, Shropshire Star and Stoke Sentinel, all of whom gave tremendous support with their motoring correspondents taking active interest and always previewing the event with reports and photos of various exhibiting cars (those manufacturers which stayed at home could never benefit. Then came advertising on local radio which were then beginning to decline quite markedly from their heyday of mid seventies.
Finally and if you worked hard and were lucky, came television with evening news features on manufacturers, plus the modest affordable advertising which I remember cost £12,000 one year.
As impressive as that might all sound, make no mistake that the vast majority of people came from the magazines and in answer to those who think that there is a travelling band of people who visit all shows, (that may be true of a few) most people lived within 30 mile of the venue. That can be seen by the loss of 2,000 (3,000 in its first year of 1988) people from the north when the show moved from Manchester to Stafford. Thus every show had its own unique attendance. A fact that also was never really understood by some maunfacturers trying to increase their sales into new markets.
So as these principles hold true today, therein lies some of the reasons why Stafford is no longer viable. It cannot command adequate support from the trade, magazines are fragmented, the local media is but a shadow of itself and late summer never was a good time for the event. I'm sorry to say but there is nothing that anybody can do to revive past glories of this show. The only things a new promoter can do is to secure magazine support across the board (bearing in mind the very modest combined circulation of the magazines) and move the date back to the spring.
It isn't going to be me though. I am not convinced that the show has any future and I left in 1996 when 5,400 still visited. Figures like that would be akin to manna from heaven today. That and 58 manufacturers, 113 trade stands and 83 more jumblers in the Car Builder & Resoration Show which filled the Prestwood Centre in 1993.
You couldn't get that hands on experience on the internet and sadly perhaps not anywhere in Britain's shows either. Like custom car shows before them, kit car shows had their day in the sun and like all other living, breathing creatures, the sad day comes when they become life expired. So I now help people get their cars back from bailiffs following parking tickets.
However Stafford 1988 - 1996 will always remain a fond memory for me.
Apologies for typos. Eyes not quite what they were.
Ron Clark
Fair Parking
Edited by Fair Parking on Wednesday 5th October 17:19
Edited by Fair Parking on Wednesday 5th October 17:23
Edited by Fair Parking on Wednesday 5th October 17:25
Edited by Fair Parking on Wednesday 5th October 17:57
Apologies for typos. Eyes not quite what they were.
Ron Clark
Fair Parking
Its a problem for all of us as we get older,but few people have either your drive or your vision.
Very interesting and informative post: a short history of Kit Car shows in a nutshell.
I went to pretty well all of them enjoyed every one.
Well done Sir. You were a great service to the kit car industry.
Returning to the post, I really do not know the answer to this conundrum.
I am essentially an expansionist (both in business and waistline) but whether I would risk the current economic troubles with a new venture or substantial marketing campaign I really am not certain.
The enthusiast in me sees the glaring opportunity.
When did the last really big growth in Kit Car building occur? Was it with the publication of Ron Champions pioneering book? In the 1980's?
Is this the time to really set the boat out on what are generally small minimally capitalised businesses. I wonder.
Being positive I will be at the Exeter show on the Sunday at Westpoint later this month wandering about as is my wont. Anybody going there?
Which manufacturers will be about I would like to put a face to some of the contributors on PH if possible.
And of course look at the kits.
I could really do with another Kit to build particularly a motorcycle kit, I fancy a three wheeler again next year.
Very informative Ron, many thanks for taking the time. I have to say I am shocked by you final para when you declare that kit car shows had their day.
We always have very busy stands at the shows, not sure whats happening in the rest of the halls as we don't get chance to look around. I had a record number of sales this year at Stoneleigh and despite poor attendance at Stafford I know that RTR sold 2 Rockets to 2 mates at the show. I saw the deposit with my own eyes!
Kit shows have not had their day I can assure you, but the shows do need a makeover which is why I am putting so much effort in to this and other threads.
I hope potential show organisers are reading here and see the downturn in kit show attendance as an opportunity. I hope they will see that the shows need more than a field full of similar kit cars in order to attract new potential customers. I am absolutely confident that something will happen next year that will be exciting and new and different. They have probably already booked a venue and are busy planning as we speak. I hope this thread and others will help them shape the future shows for us to display at.
I wonder what will happen this year at Exeter though as we will see many many faces that we saw last year and as we sold 18 kits in the months following to visitors to the show. I wonder if that is that end of the U.K flooded!
We always have very busy stands at the shows, not sure whats happening in the rest of the halls as we don't get chance to look around. I had a record number of sales this year at Stoneleigh and despite poor attendance at Stafford I know that RTR sold 2 Rockets to 2 mates at the show. I saw the deposit with my own eyes!
Kit shows have not had their day I can assure you, but the shows do need a makeover which is why I am putting so much effort in to this and other threads.
I hope potential show organisers are reading here and see the downturn in kit show attendance as an opportunity. I hope they will see that the shows need more than a field full of similar kit cars in order to attract new potential customers. I am absolutely confident that something will happen next year that will be exciting and new and different. They have probably already booked a venue and are busy planning as we speak. I hope this thread and others will help them shape the future shows for us to display at.
I wonder what will happen this year at Exeter though as we will see many many faces that we saw last year and as we sold 18 kits in the months following to visitors to the show. I wonder if that is that end of the U.K flooded!
Thanks for the insight on the Stafford show of years gone by it's good to hear the facts from someone who has done it and done it well. The only point i tend to disagree with is the pesimism as I fell sure ther will continue to be shows only I think it's going to be a whole new format, one which is much more of an experience than a look at things kind of show.
Yep we'll be at Exeter and happy to speak to anyone at all about where we think things should be going with the kit car industry and on all fronts not just the shows. Which stand? well I'll be with the Deronda as recently featured in Top Gear Magazine India and Overdrive Magazine also. See there's always somewhere that you can look to if things on the home front are quiet. Sorry though Steffan it's not bike engined.
Yep we'll be at Exeter and happy to speak to anyone at all about where we think things should be going with the kit car industry and on all fronts not just the shows. Which stand? well I'll be with the Deronda as recently featured in Top Gear Magazine India and Overdrive Magazine also. See there's always somewhere that you can look to if things on the home front are quiet. Sorry though Steffan it's not bike engined.
Excellent thread, with some very interesting and informative points of view. Yes the market has changed as has the customer base. Combining markets is an option and I very much hope someone takes forward that idea. I’m personally considering putting on an action meet / show next year so I’m very interested in peoples views and opinions of what would be considered, in order of priority, the top 8 key things that a Kit Car Show must have, from a paying customers view point in today’s market.
nigel
nigel
I don't remember saying that kit car shows have had their day, only that they have had their day in the sun. In other words the golden days are behind them. I hope they continue because there are some clever people out there building some wonderful cars. I'm sure that Stoneleigh will continue for some time yet but I can't comment on others as my information is way out of date.
But of one thing I am sure - Stafford has had its day - at least for the foreseeable future.
I will add to my post later and try to tie what was relevant back then to what is relevant now.
But of one thing I am sure - Stafford has had its day - at least for the foreseeable future.
I will add to my post later and try to tie what was relevant back then to what is relevant now.
Thanks for that fascinating insight Ron, always good to hear from someone who has actually been there, done it and worn the tee shirt.
Regarding Bingley Hall, apart from attending many bike/car shows over the years, to my eternal shame I can actually remember attending a packed Barry Manilow concert there around 1981 with my wife....
Regarding Bingley Hall, apart from attending many bike/car shows over the years, to my eternal shame I can actually remember attending a packed Barry Manilow concert there around 1981 with my wife....
Thanks very much for the compliments and I hope that my amibiguous vocabulary of 'kit car shows have had their day in the sun' did not confuse too many people for too long.
With regard to events in general, there has to be enough people out there to support any one of them for without that, events will die. The number of people seriously interested in kit cars is clearly far less now than in the late 80's and 90's and thus today's event organisers must take radical views of how to make them work or pass them by.
Back in the early 90's a couple of kit car magazines were claiming monthly sales of 20,000 and though I doubted this at the time what did impress me was the large percentage of visitors to a show as compared with circulations. 9,000 visitors on claimed combined circulations of 50,000 or less was impressive. Compare that to 35,000 visitors for a custom show (circa 1979-80) from a combined ABC magazine circulation of 250,000. Kit car readers were definitely much more hands on.
Then there was the age factor. At my CC shows I was looking at 25 yr olds and less, whereas at kit car shows that had certainly moved up to 35 - 45, but coincidently 10 or more years had passed. Those people are now in their late 50's and 60's. We don't travel as much at this age do we? Nor do we want as much.
I also have some philopsophies which have formed the backbone of promoting events. Two I have mentioned already, support and early trade commitment. Added to that is the fundamental belief that nobody has to come. Show organisers are not doing anybody a favour by simply putting on an event or expecting people to just turn up and be grateful. Public trust and faith has to earned and must never be abused.
There is one final observation in this area and that was whatever was good for the industry was good for me. Good news and happy people are more willing to support and spend. In that respect I never saw any other show as a 'rival', only as a compliment and a stepping stone to my event.
If a manufacturer or trade company did well at a another show and banked some money they were more likely to attend Stafford with anticipation. Bad news however makes life difficult for everybody and bad shows lead to apathy and distrust. However, never in 37 years of event organising did I ever feel the need to ban anybody from attending any event.
Shows are about everybody going home with a smile on their faces, whether that comes through taking orders, banking money, buying your dream, tracing that elusive part, seeing something breathtaking, having a few drinks with your friends or just browsing.
With regard to events in general, there has to be enough people out there to support any one of them for without that, events will die. The number of people seriously interested in kit cars is clearly far less now than in the late 80's and 90's and thus today's event organisers must take radical views of how to make them work or pass them by.
Back in the early 90's a couple of kit car magazines were claiming monthly sales of 20,000 and though I doubted this at the time what did impress me was the large percentage of visitors to a show as compared with circulations. 9,000 visitors on claimed combined circulations of 50,000 or less was impressive. Compare that to 35,000 visitors for a custom show (circa 1979-80) from a combined ABC magazine circulation of 250,000. Kit car readers were definitely much more hands on.
Then there was the age factor. At my CC shows I was looking at 25 yr olds and less, whereas at kit car shows that had certainly moved up to 35 - 45, but coincidently 10 or more years had passed. Those people are now in their late 50's and 60's. We don't travel as much at this age do we? Nor do we want as much.
I also have some philopsophies which have formed the backbone of promoting events. Two I have mentioned already, support and early trade commitment. Added to that is the fundamental belief that nobody has to come. Show organisers are not doing anybody a favour by simply putting on an event or expecting people to just turn up and be grateful. Public trust and faith has to earned and must never be abused.
There is one final observation in this area and that was whatever was good for the industry was good for me. Good news and happy people are more willing to support and spend. In that respect I never saw any other show as a 'rival', only as a compliment and a stepping stone to my event.
If a manufacturer or trade company did well at a another show and banked some money they were more likely to attend Stafford with anticipation. Bad news however makes life difficult for everybody and bad shows lead to apathy and distrust. However, never in 37 years of event organising did I ever feel the need to ban anybody from attending any event.
Shows are about everybody going home with a smile on their faces, whether that comes through taking orders, banking money, buying your dream, tracing that elusive part, seeing something breathtaking, having a few drinks with your friends or just browsing.
Edited by Fair Parking on Thursday 6th October 12:37
Edited by Fair Parking on Thursday 6th October 12:41
Edited by Fair Parking on Thursday 6th October 12:42
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