KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10
Discussion
I think it comes down to how much Retro people actually want, if you take the Elite as an example, I struggle to see how the original can be improved on from a retro perspective,(of course I am biased on this) if you start altering rooflines, arches and basic dimensions its a new car, and I dont really think its retro anymore, or not an Elite at least. I doubt it would look much like an Elite either.
I can understand from a racing point of view, to make it go faster or handle better, by why alter something that still looks good, I thought Retro was retaining the same look and feel but underpinning it with modern mechanicals and features to bring it up to date etc.
So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
I am not commenting on mid engine retro stuff for obviuos reasons but the MGF is going to make an excellent donor as time rolls on.
I can understand from a racing point of view, to make it go faster or handle better, by why alter something that still looks good, I thought Retro was retaining the same look and feel but underpinning it with modern mechanicals and features to bring it up to date etc.
So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
I am not commenting on mid engine retro stuff for obviuos reasons but the MGF is going to make an excellent donor as time rolls on.
The Elite does not need improving for a modern take on the basic form to work.
Personally I don't think that the yellow car above looks like a better Elite but it does look like a pretty car in its own right.
And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
Starting with a set of windows and doors does not restrict the designer as much as you might think. Look at the Ford RS200, the windsreen, roof and doors are from a sierra but it looks nothing like it!
Personally I don't think that the yellow car above looks like a better Elite but it does look like a pretty car in its own right.
And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
Starting with a set of windows and doors does not restrict the designer as much as you might think. Look at the Ford RS200, the windsreen, roof and doors are from a sierra but it looks nothing like it!
, here are some earlier rough sketches, based on the Murtaya ....working on the coupe...
cymtriks said:
T
And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
!
I agree with you, that is why its better to start with some realistic chassis pictures or car images, you can work out the details faster and make the new design almost real and believable.And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
!
We can always come up with some fancy design, but if the kitcar manufacture doesn't have tha capabilities, or resources to invest, the fancy design, is almost useless, but very good for your ego...
The kitcar world needs in my opinion, different and unique designs, but that can be manufactured with exhisting technology, at acceptable costs.
Single donors kits could be a solution, in most cases, for all the underpinnings, but sometimes you would need different windshields and doors.
Will explore your Elite project later .....
Joe T said:
I
So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
I think that the mx5 is an excellent donor for a modern Elite in my opinion,, reliable engine, great handling and available parts worldwide.So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
I've had a thought about a kit car.
Cobras - the market's awash with them. European car with a big V8.
They're also not the most practical of things, nor the most suave. I'm not sure I'd want to take one on a long trip abroad, put it that way. I don't think my luggage would fit.
But there was no shortage of European GTs with big V8s in the '60s.
Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
So what about a car that was based on a Cobra (so drove like one), but featured a classic '60s 'Grand Tourer'-style coupe bodyshell, trimmed out sumptuously by hand and coming with 'bespoke' (ie find some nice leather luggage at a good price and make the boot fit around it) travelling luggage.
I'm not sure making it a 2+2 or a four-seater would be that useful - I think today's safety climate makes it difficult to market the idea - so instead of a 'family' GT, something really practical, but with a beautifully trimmed luggage area, especially if you could fit things like skis in it.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
Cobras - the market's awash with them. European car with a big V8.
They're also not the most practical of things, nor the most suave. I'm not sure I'd want to take one on a long trip abroad, put it that way. I don't think my luggage would fit.
But there was no shortage of European GTs with big V8s in the '60s.
Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
So what about a car that was based on a Cobra (so drove like one), but featured a classic '60s 'Grand Tourer'-style coupe bodyshell, trimmed out sumptuously by hand and coming with 'bespoke' (ie find some nice leather luggage at a good price and make the boot fit around it) travelling luggage.
I'm not sure making it a 2+2 or a four-seater would be that useful - I think today's safety climate makes it difficult to market the idea - so instead of a 'family' GT, something really practical, but with a beautifully trimmed luggage area, especially if you could fit things like skis in it.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
Twincam16 said:
I'
Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
Twincam16Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
You do have a very good point, and I'm sure there is a niche for such a market, but as you say, it would have to be bespoke , a tailor made body to fit the cobra chassis.
I would even push further the concept , by having a kitcar company supplying different body designs, to the various kitcar companies and market them as their own.
I can envisage in the future, a kitcar company building a complete rolling chassis with mechanicals for sale to third parties, and others use them to cloth them with their own complete body shell.
The famous italian carrozerias, just like you mentioned, did this in the 60's, using Cobra and Corvette chassis, and it could be done in a modern fashion even today.
I like your idea............
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 13th June 20:42
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