Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design

[skwdenyer]

911hillclimber said:

Old engineering addage:

If it looks right it probably is.

O/T?: The one I've always like was from old Mr Pomeroy, Chief Engineer at Vauxhall Motors in the early part of the 20th Century: "if you've got to measure an improvement, you haven't got one!". It is often forgotten by engineers and designers, but it is the very essence of selling products to real-life consumers.

[fuoriserie]

skwdenyer said:

911hillclimber said:

Old engineering addage:

If it looks right it probably is.

: "if you've got to measure an improvement, you haven't got one!". It is often forgotten by engineers and designers, but it is the very essence of selling products to real-life consumers.

I've never heard of it, but it sounds so true.......

[skwdenyer]

911hillclimber said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I was not aware of that fact! That is excellent as it removes the important stumbling block to making such a vehicle viable I feel.

Sorry, I may have been too hasty. The information I provided was what was told to me by the guy who serviced the Apes I was offered for sale.

Having done a little research, it looks like it is not quite as described, I'm afraid. Instead, the Ape features a series of castings which join together to provide a regular 4- or 5-speed gearbox, a reverse transfer box and a differential. The effect of this is that, yes, there are as many speeds in reverse as in forward travel but, no, it doesn't seem to be a simple bolt-on reverse/forward transfer box. Sorry to get hopes up. It might still be possible to utilise this set-up, however, not least because parts for this (and for the similar Bajaj Tuk-Tuk) are readily and cheaply available from India. Whether the quality is up to much is, of course, another matter...

Overall it provides a quite compact little transaxle, which would suit 4-wheel or front-wheel-trike applications (both less desirable to many, I understand). It could of course be a FWD trike with an engine ahead of the front axle, but the weight distribution might not be optimal.

From another forum I found this run-down of other gearbox options:

said:

Spool: Homebuilt, no differential, chain driven, cheapest way to go.
[url=http://www.transworks.biz/minidiff.html:18vap0lo]Transworks[/url:18vap0lo]: Has reverse, inboard brake option, direct drive. $2295
[url=http://www.sandbullet.com:18vap0lo]Sand Bullet[/url:18vap0lo]: Has reverse, inboard brake option, direct drive. $3995
[url=http://www.quaifeusa.com/Motorcycle/cyclecars.htm:18vap0lo]Quaife CD Axle[/url:18vap0lo]: Chain driven, reverse. $3195
[url=http://www.quaifeusa.com/Motorcycle/cyclecars.htm:18vap0lo]Quaife POWERtec[/url:18vap0lo]: Has reverse, direct drive (not shown on website). $4795
[url=http://www.jeffcotransmissions.com/jeffco_transmissions.htm:18vap0lo]JEFFco[/url:18vap0lo] Reverse Diff: Has reverse, chain drive. $3500
[url=http://www.jeffcotransmissions.com/jeffco_reversehub.htm:18vap0lo]JEFFco[/url:18vap0lo] Reverse Hub: Has reverse, chain drive, no diff. $2500
[url=http://www.rpmgearboxes.com/:18vap0lo]Roberto Gearbox[/url:18vap0lo]: Econo unit for under 50HP. $1250
[url=http://www.rpmgearboxes.com/:18vap0lo]Roberto Gearbox[/url:18vap0lo]: Direct drive for CVT. Live axle. $2000 - depending on options
[url=http://www.jaxports.com/trike.htm:18vap0lo]Jaxsports Reverse Gearbox[/url:18vap0lo]: Has reverse, chain drive. Available straight or 90 degrees. $2800

On the reverse gear front, I do wonder however if anybody is yet commercially producing integrated flywheel / alternator / starter motors (as used in VW stop-start applications) in small enough sizes - it might be possible to reverse the direction of drive for the "starter" function to provide an electric reverse gear?

[911hillclimber]

My 'solution' is to have one electric 'hub-motor' in one of the front wheels. With battery power to drive it you have enough to reverse at a contollable speed to get you there. One wheel drive on the front frees you of the main transmission and will give you enough traction in wet/dry, but snow etc would be tricky, but driving a 3 wheeler in the snow IS tricky!

There, a rare moment of inspiration from the Engineer in me!

Lets see this great idea built and trolling about on a road.
For now it can be a convertable with the tilt canopy pushed back for air conditioned driving...

[qdos]

It's fantastic to see so much positive interest in this type of vehicle I've been convinced they could make a comeback for years. Don't know how many of you have noticed the price of fuel slowly creeping up week by week. As I've said earlier on in the discussion it's crazy really that we crawl around in such big heavy steel boxes all the time. Sure they are sensible for family transport but how often do you use one to transport the entire family? Also how many cars are there sat outside the family house? Doesn't it make sense that one of them is a vehicle like this?

Most of us in this discussion are petrol heads and all love flash cars so it's great to see us all chatting and discussing these machines too

Edited by qdos on Tuesday 24th February 08:26

[fuoriserie]

A very interesting school project in the UK, the PLUME.
http://www.3wheelers.com/plume2.html

[fuoriserie]

qdos said:

It's fantastic to see so much positive interest in this type of vehicle I've been convinced they could make a comeback for years. Don't know how many of you have noticed the price of fuel slowly creeping up week by week. As I've said earlier on in the discussion it's crazy really that we crawl around in such big heavy steel boxes all the time. Sure they are sensible for family transport but how often do you use one to transport the entire family? Also how many cars are there sat outside the family house? Doesn't it make sense that one of them is a vehicle like this?

Most of us in this discussion are petrol heads and all love flash cars so it's great to see us all chatting and discussing these machines too

Edited by qdos on Tuesday 24th February 08:26

I totally agree with you.........I guess we're changing, maybe we're starting to realize that for you everyday use, you need something simple and economical to run, inexpensive to buy for your daily commutes, amd then have fun on the weekends with your sportscar......

In my opinion, Lowcost is key to such a project, otherwise it wouldn't make sense, most people woild buy a used second hand citycar instead of a new 3wheeler.

[qdos]

Good to see another School building something. We're currently working with a school too! So the future's looking bright!

Once you try these micro cars you see the sense in them. I've been driving them for several years now. They are great fun and it dawns on you how stupid it is to go down the big family car route. Having said that I've just changed my Primera for a Picasso But I promise it's for good reason. I'm actually hoping to fetch the chassis for our trike this Friday in it. I mean literally in it too as it should be possible to put the chassis inside the Pic with the back seats out.

Hopefully in a few more weeks time we can show you some pics of the trike with a body on it. Though it's not the same as this latest cabin scooter, but don't worry we're working on one of those too! Oh and a 400bhp / tonne track car but the less said about that here the better LOL

[fuoriserie]

http://aerotrike.net/

maybe APTERA was inspired by this project.......

[fuoriserie]

A Reverse gear idea....:


http://www.mride.se/reverse_gear.html

and buy the way, this threewheler is awesome in its design and build.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th February 09:00

[mrmaggit]

fuoriserie said:

A Reverse gear idea....:


http://www.mride.se/reverse_gear.html

and buy the way, this threewheler is awesome in its design and build.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th February 09:00

Which one? Yours?

[fuoriserie]

mrmaggit said:

fuoriserie said:

A Reverse gear idea....:


http://www.mride.se/reverse_gear.html

and buy the way, this threewheler is awesome in its design and build.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th February 09:00

Which one? Yours?

neither.......

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

A Reverse gear idea....:


http://www.mride.se/reverse_gear.html

and buy the way, this threewheler is awesome in its design and build.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th February 09:00

hmmm... not overly impressed with that one personally. Looks over-engineered and with all the negatives of a car and motorcycle combined! Think your design is far more usable.

The plans I had for my trike had no real chassis to speak of, the body was a tub constructed of a very strong inner tub (GF or CF) with a less robust outer tub, the gap between (about 8 inches) filled with eurothane foam. So basically a huge bumper that you sit in to provide a figure hugging safety cell. Other than a few small pieces of metal to act as the suspension mount points there was no metal in there at all. I went for a swing arm suspension idea I've played around with that has pivots at both ends allowing a leaning system to act off just the steering wheel, but I can't get any further with that till I've got a workshop to prototype it in!

Edited by Davi on Tuesday 24th February 10:31

[mrmaggit]

fuoriserie said:

http://aerotrike.net/

maybe APTERA was inspired by this project.......

Sorry, but that's easily outshone by the Scorpion.

[FlossyThePig]

fuoriserie said:

A very interesting school project in the UK, the PLUME.
http://www.3wheelers.com/plume2.html

Unfortunately the project ran from Feb - June 2001.

[Auntieroll]

Anybody else reckon that this Scorpion looks to have been more than a little inspired by the Vortex (1990 ish) ,both in looks and concep, ie plywood monocoque and Spitfire front suspension with M/C engine in the back?

[fuoriserie]

Auntieroll said:

Anybody else reckon that this Scorpion looks to have been more than a little inspired by the Vortex (1990 ish) ,both in looks and concep, ie plywood monocoque and Spitfire front suspension with M/C engine in the back?

A rebodied Vortex......, I agree with you on the concept, it looks too similar......

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th February 15:23

[fuoriserie]

http://www.engines.piaggio.com/_vti_g2_pr2.asp?

Piaggio scooter engine range.......just look at the 850cc v-twin option...), I can see a lot of potebtial for a few design projects with that engine......, you could even have a two seater option.

[mrmaggit]

Auntieroll said:

Anybody else reckon that this Scorpion looks to have been more than a little inspired by the Vortex (1990 ish) ,both in looks and concep, ie plywood monocoque and Spitfire front suspension with M/C engine in the back?

I think it was more inspired by the original Morgan, TBH.

[Auntieroll]

We'll have to agree to differ on that one I'm afraid!