Is this where Kit Car designs should be heading
Discussion
Before anyone slams down modern styled kit cars lets just think about the Grinnall Scorpion. Sure its probably due for an update, but its still relatively modern and that was first launched in 1992. 21 Years ago, and it hasn't changed all that much since!
The Sub G1 mentioned in the OP was launched in 2005- even that is 8 years ago! Yet we are talking about it here as the pinnacle of kit car design??
A well designed product, that is not meant to copy anything else, but be completely original can last for a long time and still be thought of as "modern"
The Ariel Atom started life at Coventry Uni in 1996. Yet still seen today as one of the most futuristic cars out there!
People only see cars as being dated when they see them a lot or they copy features of the time!
If it's completely different, new and fresh, built in limited numbers, chances are it will last a long time before anyone thinks it looks dated.
Lets just take a look into some of the history books of car design.
This was the Peugeot Asphalte, a concept car from 1996, yet if you saw it on the road today you would think it looks futuristic (apart from the grille) and really revolutionary- no, its just you probably haven't seen it before, that's why it looks fresh. It's simple, if you copy current cars, people grow accustomed to it, it dates, and that includes features too. The trouble is, it's so much easier to copy than to come up with an original design....
The Sub G1 mentioned in the OP was launched in 2005- even that is 8 years ago! Yet we are talking about it here as the pinnacle of kit car design??
A well designed product, that is not meant to copy anything else, but be completely original can last for a long time and still be thought of as "modern"
The Ariel Atom started life at Coventry Uni in 1996. Yet still seen today as one of the most futuristic cars out there!
People only see cars as being dated when they see them a lot or they copy features of the time!
If it's completely different, new and fresh, built in limited numbers, chances are it will last a long time before anyone thinks it looks dated.
Lets just take a look into some of the history books of car design.
This was the Peugeot Asphalte, a concept car from 1996, yet if you saw it on the road today you would think it looks futuristic (apart from the grille) and really revolutionary- no, its just you probably haven't seen it before, that's why it looks fresh. It's simple, if you copy current cars, people grow accustomed to it, it dates, and that includes features too. The trouble is, it's so much easier to copy than to come up with an original design....
^^^^ Spot on, every word.
There are two ways designs become dated:
Another example of this in the kit car market is the Toniq. Quite an old design, now (well over a decade), but still looks sharp and fresh alongside the best of modern 'Seven' interpretations:
Interesting documentary on the Toniq's original design process here and here (though the engineering underneath the design has developed a long way since).
There are two ways designs become dated:
- Through familiarity.
- Because they follow a distinctive trend, and the trend becomes dated through familarity.
Another example of this in the kit car market is the Toniq. Quite an old design, now (well over a decade), but still looks sharp and fresh alongside the best of modern 'Seven' interpretations:
Interesting documentary on the Toniq's original design process here and here (though the engineering underneath the design has developed a long way since).
I can definitely see an application for large scale 3D printing of kit car bodyshells rather than the current heavy investment in moulding processes.
You could have a standard chassis and any number of bodywork variations 3D printed onto a supporting architecture that mates the 3D body to the standardised chassis.
Spare body panels would be a piece of cake as would bodywork modifications such as wider wings, hood scoops, aero devices etc.
There must be people working on this already.
Cheers,
Tony
You could have a standard chassis and any number of bodywork variations 3D printed onto a supporting architecture that mates the 3D body to the standardised chassis.
Spare body panels would be a piece of cake as would bodywork modifications such as wider wings, hood scoops, aero devices etc.
There must be people working on this already.
Cheers,
Tony
Never ceases to amaze me - the usual reaction to something like this seems to be "it's fugly" & whilst I rarely comment on other peoples design aesthetics I have to say this would best be described as "quirky" with regard to its looks.
What I really don't get is why anyone would want one - personally I love reverse trikes, but if I was going to own or build one I'd want a bit more between me & other road users than a bit of fibreglass or aluminium, I can't tell from the pics as it doesn't show what's under the hump behind the drivers head, but has it even got any proper roll over protection? Even the best designed trike still has the propensity to park itself upside down, certainly doesn't have anything to the side of the drivers head & the LHS has as much protection as a bike, only you're a lot lower, so your head gets wiped off instead of your leg!
It appears to have all the disadvatages of a bike without any of the advantages of being able to squeeze thro' traffic & although I haven't seen any mention of the price I get the impression generally it's not cheap!
If it was available as a kit I'm sure it would sell a few, but not enough to make anyone very rich that's for sure.
Surely if we are serious about moving kitcar design on, & in the respect of 3 wheelers, then something like the Pug concept above (& even tho' only a concept that does look as tho' it could have at least some side impact protection, I know side protection on 7's is c*ap, but then that was designed when there were only 2 cars per mile on the roads!
So, in answer to the OP's question, IMHO No!
Now if you had a similar design, but could carry 2 people, was largely weatherproof & it was available very cheaply & was also cheap to run you might be onto a winner, something like the Razor but without such a powerful engine might appeal to the masses.
What I really don't get is why anyone would want one - personally I love reverse trikes, but if I was going to own or build one I'd want a bit more between me & other road users than a bit of fibreglass or aluminium, I can't tell from the pics as it doesn't show what's under the hump behind the drivers head, but has it even got any proper roll over protection? Even the best designed trike still has the propensity to park itself upside down, certainly doesn't have anything to the side of the drivers head & the LHS has as much protection as a bike, only you're a lot lower, so your head gets wiped off instead of your leg!
It appears to have all the disadvatages of a bike without any of the advantages of being able to squeeze thro' traffic & although I haven't seen any mention of the price I get the impression generally it's not cheap!
If it was available as a kit I'm sure it would sell a few, but not enough to make anyone very rich that's for sure.
Surely if we are serious about moving kitcar design on, & in the respect of 3 wheelers, then something like the Pug concept above (& even tho' only a concept that does look as tho' it could have at least some side impact protection, I know side protection on 7's is c*ap, but then that was designed when there were only 2 cars per mile on the roads!
So, in answer to the OP's question, IMHO No!
Now if you had a similar design, but could carry 2 people, was largely weatherproof & it was available very cheaply & was also cheap to run you might be onto a winner, something like the Razor but without such a powerful engine might appeal to the masses.
Tony427 said:
I can definitely see an application for large scale 3D printing of kit car bodyshells rather than the current heavy investment in moulding processes.
You could have a standard chassis and any number of bodywork variations 3D printed onto a supporting architecture that mates the 3D body to the standardised chassis.
Spare body panels would be a piece of cake as would bodywork modifications such as wider wings, hood scoops, aero devices etc.
There must be people working on this already.
yes there is You could have a standard chassis and any number of bodywork variations 3D printed onto a supporting architecture that mates the 3D body to the standardised chassis.
Spare body panels would be a piece of cake as would bodywork modifications such as wider wings, hood scoops, aero devices etc.
There must be people working on this already.
http://www.dezeen.com/2013/03/07/road-ready-3d-pri...
the trouble is physical size of machine and time of printing, other than that its relatively easy/simple so long as you know the limitations of the material, structure and engineering.
there are various ways of doing it.
SLS (selective laser sintering)
This is where you have a bed of some sort of powder, usually a kind of plastic, and a laser passes over, melting it and fusing it together. Then the whole bed drops down a level, it gets skimmed with a new layer of powder, and the laser makes the next pass, continuing until you have your build model.
FDM (fused deposition modelling)
This is the most readily available and you can buy one of these small desktop machines for around £650. It uses a real of plastic (ussually ABS) and heats it up and extrudes it as a very narrow melted string. it lays down one layer, then the next, building it up over a few hours. (these aren't massively accurate though and the print quality is okay, but cant deal with very complex shapes.
SLA (Steriolithography)
Like in SLS you have a bed of material, but this time its a photopolymer liquid. a UV laser passes over and solidifies it, the bed drops down for the next layer and another pass is made until its done.
Powder bed inkjet
I believe ZCorp have exclusivity on this- but effectively you have a bed of plaster powder, and a big inkjet printer head passes over, spraying a liquid onto the powder that reacts with it to solidify, then the bed drops, new layer of powder and another pass, you get the idea by now im sure. The great thing about the ZCorp ones is that you can print in full colour as you can add pigment to the liquid you spray on. It is effectively a big colour printer but instead of paper it prints on, its a layer of plaster.
The problem is the inherent size and structure. A plaster based solution would be no good for a car, so it falls on the others (one colour) or a new system. the biggest one i have found so far was 1.5m x 0.75m x 0.5m build volume, so you could easily do it in sections as per the car in development. I imagine it would take many days for a print of this size though. Possibly weeks.
SLS (selective laser sintering)
This is where you have a bed of some sort of powder, usually a kind of plastic, and a laser passes over, melting it and fusing it together. Then the whole bed drops down a level, it gets skimmed with a new layer of powder, and the laser makes the next pass, continuing until you have your build model.
FDM (fused deposition modelling)
This is the most readily available and you can buy one of these small desktop machines for around £650. It uses a real of plastic (ussually ABS) and heats it up and extrudes it as a very narrow melted string. it lays down one layer, then the next, building it up over a few hours. (these aren't massively accurate though and the print quality is okay, but cant deal with very complex shapes.
SLA (Steriolithography)
Like in SLS you have a bed of material, but this time its a photopolymer liquid. a UV laser passes over and solidifies it, the bed drops down for the next layer and another pass is made until its done.
Powder bed inkjet
I believe ZCorp have exclusivity on this- but effectively you have a bed of plaster powder, and a big inkjet printer head passes over, spraying a liquid onto the powder that reacts with it to solidify, then the bed drops, new layer of powder and another pass, you get the idea by now im sure. The great thing about the ZCorp ones is that you can print in full colour as you can add pigment to the liquid you spray on. It is effectively a big colour printer but instead of paper it prints on, its a layer of plaster.
The problem is the inherent size and structure. A plaster based solution would be no good for a car, so it falls on the others (one colour) or a new system. the biggest one i have found so far was 1.5m x 0.75m x 0.5m build volume, so you could easily do it in sections as per the car in development. I imagine it would take many days for a print of this size though. Possibly weeks.
KMF said:
Love it, just wish someone was makin the RCR nemesis over here, now that is nice
Have you talked to Arden Automotive? I know they did have a relationship with RCR - not sure if they still do. Their website says they still do, but I'm not sure how current it is - it still has Murtaya information up!!Edited by KMF on Tuesday 19th March 21:28
Skyedriver said:
(I am nearly 60)
Age is not an excuse, i will be 60 in June.If you want to
The 3ders website has some interesting videos of the different methods.
Parts for the Urbee were made on made on a printer by Stratasys who alo supplied a printer to Gordon Murray.
I am a toolmaker by trade and I reckon I have already seen massive changes since starting as an apprentice in 1965.
It will not be long before metal dust and lasers will manufacture all sorts of products and human intervention will not be required, I will be retired in a couple of years so might not see it.
However humans are no smarter than they were!
It will not be long before metal dust and lasers will manufacture all sorts of products and human intervention will not be required, I will be retired in a couple of years so might not see it.
However humans are no smarter than they were!
Max_Torque said:
FNG said:
I wouldn't like to find myself, as a low volume manufacturer, with a design that starts to look 'dated' after 2-3 years and need to develop a new design, plug, moulds and jigs to suit.
EFA!If your design entirely revolves around being the "latest bestest thing" you probably have 18-24months tops as exactly that before something else comes along and steals your crown these days!
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