how hard is it to build an original kit car ?
Discussion
Oh, I just remembered the name of the car I was talking about earlier. It was the FBS Census
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 20th May 00:15
cymtriks said:
The biggest single problem is probably making the bodywork.
The traditional kit car approach is to make a buck (time consuming), then make molds from the buck (space consuming) and finally take panels from the molds (more space and more time). It can be done cheaply but you need a big shed and a long time to do it.
A few kit cars however have been made from a hand made alloy prototype, which was used as a buck. The big advantage been that the buck is a driveable prototype that you can keep even if no one ever buys the kit plus you do don't need to take molds and then make panels to get to this stage though you obviously will if decide to make any more. I think one of the GD its and the Caterham 21 were done this way.
Sabaro used a cage of metal tubes which was covered with fibre glass and lots and lots of body filler. Again this got a driveable prototype but at the cost of a heavy body.
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
I don't think it's quite what you're thinking of, but some of the most beautiful cars have been made this way. There a a lot of carbon fibre loonies around these days, but a properly made aluminium body, put together with rivets, is a very fine thing indeed.The traditional kit car approach is to make a buck (time consuming), then make molds from the buck (space consuming) and finally take panels from the molds (more space and more time). It can be done cheaply but you need a big shed and a long time to do it.
A few kit cars however have been made from a hand made alloy prototype, which was used as a buck. The big advantage been that the buck is a driveable prototype that you can keep even if no one ever buys the kit plus you do don't need to take molds and then make panels to get to this stage though you obviously will if decide to make any more. I think one of the GD its and the Caterham 21 were done this way.
Sabaro used a cage of metal tubes which was covered with fibre glass and lots and lots of body filler. Again this got a driveable prototype but at the cost of a heavy body.
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
I'd rather look at that any day, than carbon fibre junk, no matter what the technical specs.
That looks simply stunning, C9-esque in the raw carbon!
I've thought about making my own car from scratch, I have my resources for different components, it'd be fun but time consuming, it'd just be a 1 off, not production. One of our friends tried to built Seven-esque cars for a living, he failed badly.
JonRB said:
Ferg said:
JonRB said:
Oh, I just remembered the name of the car I was talking about earlier. It was the FBS Census
Not a kitcar though, Jon.
It was built by guys from the mainstream car world, not in touch with the reality of small volume cars.
There ARE a lot of people LIKE trhat in the kitcar world, but if you treat it as a hobby that might turn into a business you've got a hell of a lot better chance of success.
If you see what I'm getting at...
absolutely said:
That looks simply stunning, C9-esque in the raw carbon!
I've thought about making my own car from scratch, I have my resources for different components, it'd be fun but time consuming, it'd just be a 1 off, not production. One of our friends tried to built Seven-esque cars for a living, he failed badly.
Ferg said:
I'm not convinced it's a useful example if you want to point out what a failure it was.
It was built by guys from the mainstream car world, not in touch with the reality of small volume cars.
There ARE a lot of people LIKE trhat in the kitcar world, but if you treat it as a hobby that might turn into a business you've got a hell of a lot better chance of success.
If you see what I'm getting at...
I see what you're getting at, and your point is valid.It was built by guys from the mainstream car world, not in touch with the reality of small volume cars.
There ARE a lot of people LIKE trhat in the kitcar world, but if you treat it as a hobby that might turn into a business you've got a hell of a lot better chance of success.
If you see what I'm getting at...
However, what I was trying to say is that the Census fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, and as such it didn't matter how good it was, nobody was going to buy it. Or if anyone was, they'd be buying it in spite of its 'challenging' looks.
The point being that a new marque (be it turnkey or kit car) has to pay a lot of attention to the looks because, rightly or wrongly, people will be put off if it looks like a regurgitated dog's dinner.
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 20th May 22:11
I reckon if you built something like that BRM as a kit, it would sell like hotcakes despite it's limitations as a roadgoing vehicle, and expense. I accept it's all relative though. I doubt you would make *much* of a profit. And hotcakes is relative to what you could build, not what you might want to sell.
Nice business though!
Nice business though!
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 00:18
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
absolutely said:
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
Hmmm, that's really quite nice. Not monocoque, but I think I'd still have one!http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
All we need now is the little 1500cc V8!
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 00:49
dilbert said:
absolutely said:
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
Hmmm, that's really quite nice. Not monocoque, but I think I'd still have one!http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
All we need now is the little 1500cc V8!
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 00:49
The "rivets" on 1 specific plane were actually glued on peas, we were told that by our very wise old engineering tutor, it was one of his favourite stories, it may have been the Spitfire or another iconic plane, I forget. It was to help the aerodynamics of the plane.
absolutely said:
dilbert said:
absolutely said:
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
Hmmm, that's really quite nice. Not monocoque, but I think I'd still have one!http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
All we need now is the little 1500cc V8!
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 00:49
The "rivets" on 1 specific plane were actually glued on peas, we were told that by our very wise old engineering tutor, it was one of his favourite stories, it may have been the Spitfire or another iconic plane, I forget. It was to help the aerodynamics of the plane.
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 01:09
How about a RSV (or whatever they are now) 2l V8 - but costs more than the rest of the car put together (or in bits
)
I agree that the ally bodywork looks really good, and somehow makes a race car look more fit for purpose, but I'm not sure how you'd get it through SVA - hence people using GRP for the finished runs of cars.
The Lotus XI bodies have loads of seperate panels that are brazed together and/or riveted then some of the rivets are blended in. The cost of doing this with an existing body plan is pretty expensive, no idea what the cost would be like from drawings with no physical pattern to work to. There's a good thread of a Lotus XI rebuild over on the wscc forum.
)I agree that the ally bodywork looks really good, and somehow makes a race car look more fit for purpose, but I'm not sure how you'd get it through SVA - hence people using GRP for the finished runs of cars.
The Lotus XI bodies have loads of seperate panels that are brazed together and/or riveted then some of the rivets are blended in. The cost of doing this with an existing body plan is pretty expensive, no idea what the cost would be like from drawings with no physical pattern to work to. There's a good thread of a Lotus XI rebuild over on the wscc forum.
absolutely said:
dilbert said:
absolutely said:
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
Hmmm, that's really quite nice. Not monocoque, but I think I'd still have one!http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
All we need now is the little 1500cc V8!
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 21st May 00:49
The "rivets" on 1 specific plane were actually glued on peas, we were told that by our very wise old engineering tutor, it was one of his favourite stories, it may have been the Spitfire or another iconic plane, I forget. It was to help the aerodynamics of the plane.
dilbert said:
absolutely said:
Tiger already build the "ERA" which is a "cigar shaped"-type car for around £15k but it has a 1.8 Zetec? engine, I think. It looks more like a late 60s Formula Ford to me.
http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
Hmmm, that's really quite nice. Not monocoque, but I think I'd still have one!http://www.tigerracing.com/era-hss.php
All we need now is the little 1500cc V8!
I'm using a dry-sumped magnesium Vee Twin rather than a 1500cc V8, though, for cost and weight reasons!
I'm not at all convinced there would be a wider market for it, though, so I've no intention of going beyond a one-off for my own peronal use.
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