Python brochure
Discussion
Ex-Biker said:
But avoiding the topic of PF's involvement, it would be nice for RV to prove Den wrong and for the Python to be a success.
It would also give Pilgrim a run for their money in the budget Cobra replica stakes, and presumably make them even more competitive that they already are..... hence opening up the market for more cost-effective cobra replicas, meaning more people can afford them!
BigRon said:
Wacky Racer said:
BigRon said:
kitcarman said:
Secondly Pilgrim’s products were available for third party scrutiny, including Which Kit? who built one in 1996/7.
Did you get free adverts? If so, did you complain so vocally as you do now when other manufacturers get that deal?
Actually, it's Den who gives the free adverts and the manufacturer who complains when they get them...
I was referring to Den's suggestion that Ultima hadn't paid for any ads in WK in return for the Ultima build story (which turned out not to be true anyway)
Let me please deal with the ‘allegation’. My point in respect to Ultima advertising was that I thought ‘something fishy’ might be going on. Ted clarified that he did pay for his advertising in Which Kit? That satisfied me. However he made certain allegations concerning me that raised questions of a different nature which,
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In respect to ‘free’ adverts. I’ve never benefited from one. I’ve given those that have come to light on various threads on this forum
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I also take exception when what I’m doing is equated with the kind of activities I’ve pointed out in respect to Monty Python or in advertising for punters to be Cut By A Razer
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Den
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>> Edited by kitcarman on Wednesday 26th November 17:37
BigRon said:Maybe it's an argument which, now I’ve started, I’ve no choice but to conclude
Maybe you've got more time to invest in this argument than anyone else (PF included)
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Maybe elements of this argument have increased classified revenue by about £500 per month
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Maybe it’s coincidental
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Den
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Ex-Biker said:
But avoiding the topic of PF's involvement, it would be nice for RV to prove Den wrong and for the Python to be a success.
Mark,
Why would it be good for the RV Python to succeed
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Then look at the negative side. Who corrects problems (if any arise) given that Vince is in Sri Lanka
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I feel for those gullible souls
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Question. We know that a cat’s got Fib’s tong and we all know why
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Den
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BigRon said:
The other day, Den challenged me and Ex Biker to phone RV Dynamics for a Python brochure which he suggested didn’t even exist. Mine arrived today as promised by the bloke I spoke to.
I was very impressed by what I was told and that the information arrived in the post when they said it would. It’s a very different experience to the one I was expecting from the impression Den gives about the WK office.
You didn’t expect to be told to
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So, what was this
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Are you going to buy a Python?
Den
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kitcarman said:
Question. We know that a cat’s got Fib’s tong and we all know why. However, if all’s well in the Python camp, why doesn’t Vince speak out? We’re all
, aren’t we?
Den![]()
Well Den, I've just e-mailed Vince to see how things are progressing. Naturally I'll let you (all) know the result.
kitcarman said:
You didn’t expect to be told tooff, did you?
So, what was thisbrochure/information like? Was it a brochure (which I suggested didn’t exist)? or was it just (or unjust
)information?
Are you going to buy a Python?
Den![]()
Ron what is it like? I haven't got mine yet, which as this is the most active thread for some time, I feel puts me at a slight disadvantage.
Den - you know I won't be buying one. I mean, it's no sleek, 5Exi sports car is it?
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My reason for saying that it would be nice to see you proved wrong, wasn't an attack at you. I feel that it is nice for manufacturers (not magazine backers - whoops,
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That is if the product is any good, therefore they need to prove it is.
You know the backup etc, does this mean that the Nemesis should be tarred with the same brush?
Remember the car displayed at Exeter, in a near finished state? Why did they display that when a large amount of people commented on the bendy chassis?
I'll take cover now!!!
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>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 26th November 20:25
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Ex-Biker said:
My reason for saying that it would be nice to see you proved wrong, wasn't an attack at you. I feel that it is nice for manufacturers (not magazine backers - whoops, that indicates money changing hands) to succeed.
I know that your question/observation wasn’t an attack upon me
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The Python was “back with bite”
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Ex-Biker said:
That is if the product is any good, therefore they need to prove it is.
There’s a right and honest way of introducing a new or developing product
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Ex-Biker said:
You know the backup etc, does this mean that the Nemesis should be tarred with the same brush?
You tell me! One letter of complaint we have concerns the RV Bugrat.
Ex-Biker said:
Remember the car displayed at Exeter, in a near finished state? Why did they display that when a large amount of people commented on the bendy chassis?
I'll take cover now!!!![]()
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I can only guess. But I believe it’s a blissful mix of ignorance and desperation.
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Den
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>> Edited by kitcarman on Wednesday 26th November 20:54
BigRon said:
Flintstone said:I make no secret of the fact that I trust Den more than I do Filby but having thought the whole thing through it's clear there are differences, not least the number of other strings to WK's bow.
Of course it might be easier to answer if Mr Filby were to come forward :tumbleweed:
Maybe not then.
Isn't that only because you haven't heard from PF personally? Am I the only one who thinks he has no obligation to join a forum based argument like this? Look what happened to Ted from Ultima when he had the 'audacity' to respond to something Den said.
I wrote direct to Peter Filby about four months ago expressing my genuine concern that as a purchaser of his magazine I might have been subjected to, shall we say, something less than the truth. So far the man has not had the deceny to reply.
At the very least that's plain bloody rude and enough to make me leave his magazine on the shelf and that's before we get into the topic of 'undeclared interests'.
Flintstone said:
I wrote direct to Peter Filby about four months ago expressing my genuine concern that as a purchaser of his magazine I might have been subjected to, shall we say, something less than the truth. So far the man has not had the decency to reply.
Hmmm, Perhaps your letter got "Lost in the post"
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Ex-Biker said:
I don't discount that any of what Den is saying about the Python is untrue. Let's face it - it is untested, there is not a complete one one the road in the UK and we don't know if it will handle the BMW V8.
But avoiding the topic of PF's involvement, it would be nice for RV to prove Den wrong and for the Python to be a success.
This is what I originally said Den.
I know (and it's obvious) that Filby is falsely advertising (bending the true or making up a good story) the Python and I would imagine other kits too.
It was Graham Bell that said
grahambell said:That's reasonable.
Had a good chat with Vince at this year's Donington show, where he was with the Nemesis. The reason he's moved the operation to Sri Lanka is simple economics - it's just too bloody expensive making things in the UK.
IMHO Peter Philby has done Vince no favours. Your point about 'Building a Future for British Kit Cars' is a dig at Fib's and his advertising, not where the car is manufactured.
My point was a very simple one and very similar to the very first message I sent you.
If the car is good build one and prove it!
Yes I do agree it is unfair to people who buy a car before it has been tested thoroughly by the factory, but if these buyers are aware of the situation, which they should be (from either the sellers and from what has been published or posted on sites like this), they take the gamble knowingly.
You are doing your best to warn these people and I applaud you for that. But remember horse-water-drink.
Remember we spoke about this at Exeter and if what you mentioned there is true
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BTW the comment about the Bugrat is unfair.
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Ex-Biker said:
IMHO Peter Philby has done Vince no favours. Your point about 'Building a Future for British Kit Cars' is a dig at Fib's and his advertising, not where the car is manufactured.
Absolutely right
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Ex-Biker said:
My point was a very simple one and very similar to the very first message I sent you.
If the car is good build one and prove it!
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Yes! Then nobody can say what I’m saying! Provided of course that it’s subject to independent scrutiny
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Ex-Biker said:
Yes I do agree it is unfair to people who buy a car before it has been tested thoroughly by the factory, but if these buyers are aware of the situation, which they should be (from either the sellers and from what has been published or posted on sites like this), they take the gamble knowingly.
You are doing your best to warn these people and I applaud you for that. But remember horse-water-drink.
Let’s get this in perspective. There’s only been one buyer of a Python so far.
Let’s also look at my motivations in keeping the pressure up.
1. I was chastised by a reader who’d been duped into buying an AF. He said that he thought I was just as much to blame as Fib’s, because there’d been no warning in Kit Car. That really hurt!!!
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2. The blatant advertising of non-existent products by one advertiser reflects badly on all. Point being that when a reader finds out that an advert is misleading, then how can he differentiate
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3. The problem here is that it’s not possible to deal with an individual rogue advertiser, because that advertiser, for whatever reason doesn’t consider that he’s restrained by matters of integrity AND is also publisher AND editor AND copy writer (in the case of ads) AND journalist (in the case of editorial). He’s a law unto himself. At enormous personal cost, I’m the only person who’s able and willing to deal with the situation. Look on the ASA site and see what they ordered Fib’s not to do.
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Ex-Biker said:
Remember we spoke about this at Exeter and if what you mentioned there is true Fib's certainly ain't a happy bunny about this subject anyway. Do you not know Vince?
BTW the comment about the Bugrat is unfair.![]()
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All I know of RV Dynamics is that they ran up a bill with Kit Car for advertising, then vanished. Then reappeared in Which Kit? Neither Vince nor Reg have contacted me for over 2 years. Post is “returned to sender”.
A man wrote to me
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This gives rise to an interesting question bearing in mind the first point in this post. I don’t believe that any of what I’m saying has to do with the Python or Bugrat or Razer or any other product. Neither has it to do with RV Dynamics or Unique Autocraft or British Kit Cars or Kit Cars Ltd or any other company. Everything I’ve said in all my threads and posts boils down to one persons ‘involvement’. He said that he’d show me (was showing me
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Answers on a post(card).
Den
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>> Edited by kitcarman on Thursday 27th November 02:09
I said this,
You do seem to have said one thing all the way through your last post. That is the problem is with Fib's.
I can see this.
How about if RV (or whoever) had said in advertising:
We are developing an update to an established Cobra rep. The developement will include BMW running gear .
.
.
.
. We are offering the first 5 customers a substancial discount, in order to assist in this development process. . . . .
Anyway, I'm still waiting for my brochure
Can we talk about 5Exi cars now?
and only nice things
Ex-Biker said:'cause you put it in at the last minute and I've got no argument.
BTW the comment about the Bugrat is unfair. ![]()
You do seem to have said one thing all the way through your last post. That is the problem is with Fib's.
I can see this.
How about if RV (or whoever) had said in advertising:
We are developing an update to an established Cobra rep. The developement will include BMW running gear .
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Anyway, I'm still waiting for my brochure
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Ex-Biker said:
How about if RV (or whoever) had said in advertising:
We are developing an update to an established Cobra rep. The developement will include BMW running gear ..
.
.
. We are offering the first 5 customers a substantial discount, in order to assist in this development process. . . . .
Anyway, I'm still waiting for my brochure![]()
I don’t believe you’re going to get a brochure and I notice that BigRon decided not to answer that point. Oh dear, I’ve attacked
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You’re spot on in describing a form of marketing that would have been appropriate, honest and fair
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So what’s gone wrong? The answer is that in this case the advertising copy writer is the impartial journalist, is the editor, is the publisher (anyone see any controlling influences?) who
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Everywhere one goes, one discovers a kit car that’s owned by Fib’s. Curious that, since he’s never built one, couldn’t build one and doesn’t want to build one. Again, you’re clever people
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I’m simply looking forward to the day when kit car magazines can be taken at face value. Whist people accept what they’re presently being served, they’ll continue to be served with it
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Den
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PS. Any response from Vince?
>> Edited by kitcarman on Thursday 27th November 13:05
Didn't think you were visiting today Den.
If WK? were a bike mag, that figure would put him in the top 5, probably close to top 3.
I had to read that a couple of times. I thought he'd been fiddling with a reader???
Can we talk about something else now?
Speedemondan came up with the query about auto's. Let's go a stage further. Has anyone built a diesel kit? Not just an off roader either.
kitcarman said:
His insistence that his magazine has ‘50,000 readers’
If WK? were a bike mag, that figure would put him in the top 5, probably close to top 3.
kitcarman said:
He’s been caught out with tampering with a reader’s
I had to read that a couple of times. I thought he'd been fiddling with a reader???
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Can we talk about something else now?
Speedemondan came up with the query about auto's. Let's go a stage further. Has anyone built a diesel kit? Not just an off roader either.
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