Three Wheelers - Your opinions and expertise wanted!
Discussion
thescamper said:
Maybe its time for a variation on the 'Build Your Own Sports Car' book and produce a plan built Trike. That at least would keep the costs down.
Exactly and that is what I was thinking when I showed the Velorex images...we need to find a common motorcycle engine, inexpensive, durable and easy on maintenance and possibly with a shaft drive.Clearly, there is a lot of interest in the idea of a modern low cost three wheeler. What type of car should this be? Personal I feel that three wheeler only work well as a two seat sports car that means a car with good handling, acceleration and a sporty look. For this idea to work it needs to use modern materials in clever way to create a light weight car low cost car that is easy to build. Morgan in the 1930’s did this to great effect, creating some amazing cars, which were among the cheapest on sale at the time. I having travelled in one a few times I know these to be very quick point to point car with very good handling you could see these as a 30’s seven. If the new car equals these it should be a great car.
I do like Fuoriserie idea of using a “cloth” body shell over an exo chassis as inspired by the Velorex. As no one already building exo car is doing this or planning to, finding the right covering could be hard. I know some “recumbent bikes” use cloth bodywork to improve their aerodynamics, I wonder could the same materials be used on a car. Aerodynamics seem, to be something lack on most current three wheelers, I don’t understand this as its free extra performance. It probably means this would have to a couple to gain the full effect. This would make the car more usable, but could add weight from a windscreen. I would wont full weather protection, all Morgan left the factory with hoods most losing them quickly.
As to what engine, a twin V would be fun and link back to the Morgan, could be a bit costly. A BMW flat twin could be a better choice. A large scooter motor could also offer a lot. A Suzuki Bandit with its CVT gearbox would be a good choice. (Could its gearbox be use with a different engine)? Sorry so long. What do you all think?
I do like Fuoriserie idea of using a “cloth” body shell over an exo chassis as inspired by the Velorex. As no one already building exo car is doing this or planning to, finding the right covering could be hard. I know some “recumbent bikes” use cloth bodywork to improve their aerodynamics, I wonder could the same materials be used on a car. Aerodynamics seem, to be something lack on most current three wheelers, I don’t understand this as its free extra performance. It probably means this would have to a couple to gain the full effect. This would make the car more usable, but could add weight from a windscreen. I would wont full weather protection, all Morgan left the factory with hoods most losing them quickly.
As to what engine, a twin V would be fun and link back to the Morgan, could be a bit costly. A BMW flat twin could be a better choice. A large scooter motor could also offer a lot. A Suzuki Bandit with its CVT gearbox would be a good choice. (Could its gearbox be use with a different engine)? Sorry so long. What do you all think?
I have been thinking on the idea of a build your own book for a car like this. Is a bike engine the best way to go? Does a car engine offer more, thinking on this and the Lomax. I remembered the Hudson Free sprite and Kindred sprite of the 80’s. I think its design offer a lot as the starting point for the book design.
Best photos I could find, sadly no two seat photos.
This used an unmodified Renault 5 engine and its sub frame, fitted onto the front of a narrow chassis. Single seat in the Freesprite and tandem two seats in the Kindredsprite. This would work better for the book as it opens up the choice of donors. Image a Golf GTI powered car or a Fiat 500 powered build from the same book. Bike engines could also be used, this would a more complex build. By using the complete front sub frame of a FWD car, you gain a correctly set up steering and suspension system for very little work. I know dismantling the donor car would harder than for a bike. I like most of the design, but have never like the lights and hate the rear end. Looking at these I'm certain the rear body work could be done in aluminum like on a seven. I see these as a FWD three wheeled Seven.
I do feel an update of these is over due. Hopfully ading weather and roll protection.
Best photos I could find, sadly no two seat photos.
This used an unmodified Renault 5 engine and its sub frame, fitted onto the front of a narrow chassis. Single seat in the Freesprite and tandem two seats in the Kindredsprite. This would work better for the book as it opens up the choice of donors. Image a Golf GTI powered car or a Fiat 500 powered build from the same book. Bike engines could also be used, this would a more complex build. By using the complete front sub frame of a FWD car, you gain a correctly set up steering and suspension system for very little work. I know dismantling the donor car would harder than for a bike. I like most of the design, but have never like the lights and hate the rear end. Looking at these I'm certain the rear body work could be done in aluminum like on a seven. I see these as a FWD three wheeled Seven.
I do feel an update of these is over due. Hopfully ading weather and roll protection.
Edited by KDIcarmad on Saturday 10th December 15:11
Edited by KDIcarmad on Monday 12th December 20:17
KDIcarmad said:
I have just looked at the Tercyclo on the cabin scooter topic. imagine a two seater version powered by a Suzuki Bandit. Add doors and aerodynamics to improve the performance,its a sports car! WOW! That is a good idea, by the way what has happen to this?
The two seater version was going to be the next step...it is currently being re-engineered as the manufacture of the engine and supplier of the components(Malaguti) was hit hard by the economic crisis and decided to quit after 80yrs. of manufacturing....Hopefully 2012 will be better for the Tercyclo project...
KDIcarmad said:
I do like Fuoriserie idea of using a “cloth” body shell over an exo chassis as inspired by the Velorex. As no one already building exo car is doing this or planning to, finding the right covering could be hard. I know some “recumbent bikes” use cloth bodywork to improve their aerodynamics, I wonder could the same materials be used on a car. Aerodynamics seem, to be something lack on most current three wheelers, I don’t understand this as its free extra performance. It probably means this would have to a couple to gain the full effect. This would make the car more usable, but could add weight from a windscreen. I would wont full weather protection, all Morgan left the factory with hoods most losing them quickly.
As to what engine, a twin V would be fun and link back to the Morgan, could be a bit costly. A BMW flat twin could be a better choice. A large scooter motor could also offer a lot. A Suzuki Bandit with its CVT gearbox would be a good choice. (Could its gearbox be use with a different engine)? Sorry so long. What do you all think?
A used Bmw Boxer or Moto Guzzi motorcycle could be had in Italy as low as 1.500 EuroAs to what engine, a twin V would be fun and link back to the Morgan, could be a bit costly. A BMW flat twin could be a better choice. A large scooter motor could also offer a lot. A Suzuki Bandit with its CVT gearbox would be a good choice. (Could its gearbox be use with a different engine)? Sorry so long. What do you all think?
http://www.moto.it/moto-usate/bmw/r-850-r/index.ht...
and you could have a Suzuki Burgman at incredible prices..
http://www.moto.it/moto-usate/suzuki/burgman-an-40...
It really depends on what type of design niche you would like to fill in the current kitcar market.
I still think that a low cost 3wheeler with a Bmw Boxer or Guzzi V-twin like the JZR could still be succesfull, but it would need to have the dimensions and wheelbase of the current Morgan at least to be confortable enough for two..
Check dimensions new Morgan 2011, eventhough I would still make the interior slightly larger
thescamper said:
They will be cheep because they are LHD.
Italy was/is ? the biggest scooter and motorcycle market in Europe, check for sales data :http://www.ancma.it/normative-14/powered-2-wheel-v...
But with the economic crisis things are changing and sales are down from the heydays of 2007, when 290.000 Scoters and motorcycles where sold.
Sat351 said:
Wow, burgman prices are great there, maybe I need to Move operations to Italy !!!
I love that Burgman engine, so quiet and smooth with lots of torque. I always fancied developing a full bodied bike engined reverse trike but the noise is horrendous when you enclose a high revving engine in a GRP box. For my next trike I am using batteries as per the attached picture. That is a 72v 100Ah Li pack that will power an 11kw motor driving the front wheels via a diff
Stuart Mills said:
I love that Burgman engine, so quiet and smooth with lots of torque. I always fancied developing a full bodied bike engined reverse trike but the noise is horrendous when you enclose a high revving engine in a GRP box. For my next trike I am using batteries as per the attached picture. That is a 72v 100Ah Li pack that will power an 11kw motor driving the front wheels via a diff
Those batteries look heavy, had you considered a hybrid? 
Above is the XR3-hybrid by Robert Riley. You buy the plans and build everthing your self. Yes, it is a DIY hybrid, if your brave or just want to know more their website is rqriley.com. I personal feel this would take a big commitment to build.
Thinking back to the book idea for a low cost fun three wheeler had you thought about writing that book. I am certain you are one of the few people who could both design the car and explain how to build it. Could it be a Hybrid??
Thinking back to the book idea for a low cost fun three wheeler had you thought about writing that book. I am certain you are one of the few people who could both design the car and explain how to build it. Could it be a Hybrid??
Knowing Stuart he is probably writing one as we speak !!
I like the look of those batteries, should provide great running distances in a MEV special chassis,, look forward to seeing it,
I am too busy to write a book but more than happy to contribute to one if you go ahead, just email me and ask for help on specifics when you get started. I did write a book once on "middy/design/building". Never felt it was written well enough to publish but it has all the tech know how included.
The trike I am designing for myself at the moment tilts when cornering so that would be an interesting chapter. I consider a KA (or similar)front end and an electric powered rear wheel would be a good option for a hybrid 3 wheel drive trike! That's another chapter and then another re battery chemistry, motor/controller set ups etc. The black art of steering geometry gets interesting when you include elements such as trail for motor cycle forks and progressive link rear suspension. Then a chapter could cover ackerman/castor/camber/roll axis etc etc.
Could be a great resource book.
The trike I am designing for myself at the moment tilts when cornering so that would be an interesting chapter. I consider a KA (or similar)front end and an electric powered rear wheel would be a good option for a hybrid 3 wheel drive trike! That's another chapter and then another re battery chemistry, motor/controller set ups etc. The black art of steering geometry gets interesting when you include elements such as trail for motor cycle forks and progressive link rear suspension. Then a chapter could cover ackerman/castor/camber/roll axis etc etc.
Could be a great resource book.
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