how hard is it to build an original kit car ?

[Davi]

andygtt said:

I have a question..... what is the difference between a race car and a kit car.... as these seem like race cars to me?

a subtle mix of misconception and prejudice usually

[absolutely]

Davi said:

andygtt said:

I have a question..... what is the difference between a race car and a kit car.... as these seem like race cars to me?

a subtle mix of misconception and prejudice usually

The setup! Some kitcar manufacturers are just men in sheds/lock-ups, we visited Caterham in the early - mid 80s, from what I can remember, they were a small outfit, now I believe they have industrial units and a big work force.

Racing car manufacturers seem to be more calculating about adjustability of their cars etc. One of the best manufacturers was Major Arthur Mallock, he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end, on his person, to check things on his cars and others cars too! He apparently redesigned the suspension setup of the AMR1 in his late 60s because he disapproved of how it was originally designed. He has been held up as a genius of race car building.

If you compare a full race Caterham to a road one, there will be a marked difference in every way.

Edited by absolutely on Sunday 25th May 19:30

[JonRB]

absolutely said:

he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end on his person

Blimey. Wasn't that painful?

[absolutely]

JonRB said:

absolutely said:

he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end on his person

Blimey. Wasn't that painful?

Oops, forgot the comma! I'll change it!

[Davi]

absolutely said:

Davi said:

andygtt said:

I have a question..... what is the difference between a race car and a kit car.... as these seem like race cars to me?

a subtle mix of misconception and prejudice usually

The setup! Some kitcar manufacturers are just men in sheds/lock-ups, we visited Caterham in the early - mid 80s, from what I can remember, they were a small outfit, now I believe they have industrial units and a big work force.

Racing car manufacturers seem to be more calculating about adjustability of their cars etc. One of the best manufacturers was Major Arthur Mallock, he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end, on his person, to check things on his cars and others cars too! He apparently redesigned the suspension setup of the AMR1 in his late 60s because he disapproved of how it was originally designed. He has been held up as a genius of race car building.

If you compare a full race Caterham to a road one, there will be a marked difference in every way.

Edited by absolutely on Sunday 25th May 19:30

But a "kit car" is as good as the person constructing it, exactly the same as a "race car". Some will randomly throw bolts from 500 yards at an oversize airfix kit, hoping it all comes good. Some will know every millimetre of the car because they've reworked it, tweaked it, changed it.

[absolutely]

Davi said:

absolutely said:

Davi said:

andygtt said:

I have a question..... what is the difference between a race car and a kit car.... as these seem like race cars to me?

a subtle mix of misconception and prejudice usually

The setup! Some kitcar manufacturers are just men in sheds/lock-ups, we visited Caterham in the early - mid 80s, from what I can remember, they were a small outfit, now I believe they have industrial units and a big work force.

Racing car manufacturers seem to be more calculating about adjustability of their cars etc. One of the best manufacturers was Major Arthur Mallock, he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end, on his person, to check things on his cars and others cars too! He apparently redesigned the suspension setup of the AMR1 in his late 60s because he disapproved of how it was originally designed. He has been held up as a genius of race car building.

If you compare a full race Caterham to a road one, there will be a marked difference in every way.

Edited by absolutely on Sunday 25th May 19:30

But a "kit car" is as good as the person constructing it, exactly the same as a "race car". Some will randomly throw bolts from 500 yards at an oversize airfix kit, hoping it all comes good. Some will know every millimetre of the car because they've reworked it, tweaked it, changed it.

That goes back to the person designing and constructing it though! If you have an idea that has crap chassis dynamics that is made into full size no one will buy it. If it is calculated perfectly, it ends up being closer to a production car, the Elise is a fine point, its glued and rivetted together, like a kit car would be. The Seven is another, Colin Chapman's original design has been watered down so much by other manufacturers like Westfield, DAX and Tiger, to name 3, its no longer a Seven! Caterham has the rights from Lotus to built Sevens and they're legally the only company that are allowed to produce them from Chapman's design.

[Sam_68]

absolutely said:

Chapman's original design has been watered down so much by other manufacturers ...

Caterham has the rights from Lotus to built Sevens and they're legally the only company that are allowed to produce them from Chapman's design.

Actually, Caterham's 7 now bears little resemblance to the original Seven either, so much has the design evolved over the years. Increased torsional stiffness and modifications to the suspension to suit modern, low profile tyres mean that it certainly doesn't drive anything like the original.

Caterham may legally be the only company allowed to produce cars to Chapmans original design, but the fact is, they don't... they produce cars to Caterham's design. It evolved from the original Chapman design, but the same can be said of many other Sevens.

Ironically, if you want to get close to the feel of the original Seven with a new kit, what you need these days is a Westfield Eleven.

[JonRB]

Sam_68 said:

Actually, Caterham's 7 now bears little resemblance to the original Seven either, so much has the design evolved over the years. Increased torsional stiffness and modifications to the suspension to suit modern, low profile tyres mean that it certainly doesn't drive anything like the original.

Caterham may legally be the only company allowed to produce cars to Chapmans original design, but the fact is, they don't... they produce cars to Caterham's design. It evolved from the original Chapman design, but the same can be said of many other Sevens.

Granted, but crucially Caterham own the rights to the Lotus 7, the name, the design, the Intellectual Property, Goodwill, and everything associated with the Lotus 7. As, of course, Westfield found to their cost back in the late 80's (although I think it was settled out of court).

Edited by JonRB on Monday 26th May 19:51

[Davi]

absolutely said:

Davi said:

absolutely said:

Davi said:

andygtt said:

I have a question..... what is the difference between a race car and a kit car.... as these seem like race cars to me?

a subtle mix of misconception and prejudice usually

The setup! Some kitcar manufacturers are just men in sheds/lock-ups, we visited Caterham in the early - mid 80s, from what I can remember, they were a small outfit, now I believe they have industrial units and a big work force.

Racing car manufacturers seem to be more calculating about adjustability of their cars etc. One of the best manufacturers was Major Arthur Mallock, he apparently always kept a string with a stone tied to the end, on his person, to check things on his cars and others cars too! He apparently redesigned the suspension setup of the AMR1 in his late 60s because he disapproved of how it was originally designed. He has been held up as a genius of race car building.

If you compare a full race Caterham to a road one, there will be a marked difference in every way.

Edited by absolutely on Sunday 25th May 19:30

But a "kit car" is as good as the person constructing it, exactly the same as a "race car". Some will randomly throw bolts from 500 yards at an oversize airfix kit, hoping it all comes good. Some will know every millimetre of the car because they've reworked it, tweaked it, changed it.

That goes back to the person designing and constructing it though! If you have an idea that has crap chassis dynamics that is made into full size no one will buy it. If it is calculated perfectly, it ends up being closer to a production car, the Elise is a fine point, its glued and rivetted together, like a kit car would be. The Seven is another, Colin Chapman's original design has been watered down so much by other manufacturers like Westfield, DAX and Tiger, to name 3, its no longer a Seven! Caterham has the rights from Lotus to built Sevens and they're legally the only company that are allowed to produce them from Chapman's design.

Sorry your post has confused me, can't decide what you are trying to say, so I can't really respond. Nothing correlating to kits v's race cars that can't be applied equally to both.