New Kitcar Design Sketches and Concepts

[fuoriserie]

Another rough sketch for a mid-engine coupe buggy...

[fuoriserie]

dmulally said:

fuoriserie said:

dmulally said:

Hi Italo,

Do you do paid work for sketches? I think it is really great stuff!

Cheers

Damo

Hi Damo,

Yes I do, and thank you for the comment....

Cheers

Italo

Mi dispiace, no lo so dove tu email e?

:-)

dmula*lly(at)yahoo.co.uk

(senza star per favore!)

Tried to contact you through your email but to no avail...try through my PH profile.

[Steve_D]

fuoriserie said:

Another rough sketch for a mid-engine coupe buggy...

Lower edge of the side roofline is below the drivers eyeline. How is that going to work?

Like the shape but it has to be useable.

Steve

[Frankthered]

OK then, in the previous "Future kit car design in a commercial context?" thread, a few of us (possibly as many as three!!) were quite keen on the concept of a full width body to fit on a Seven / Locost type chassis. The design would include a full windscreen with a T-Bar roof arrangement - the structure for this effectively forming a roll cage (well practically) - I'd also include a heater, because I'm a nit nesh! (Really it's because you'd need something for screen demising.)

By necessity, the sills would need to be quite high, so one idea was to use lightweight polycarbonate gullwing doors (or maybe forward hingeing type polycarb doors like the Dax Kamala) which would provide proper weather protection if done correctly. The idea would be that you could remove these completely to get close to an open experience. I'd even be tempted to give it a small, but useful boot!

Obviously, this would be heavier than an equivalent Seven type car, but the plan would be to keep the extra weight to a minimum. (I'd be prepared to delete the boot if the car got too heavy!)

This would give a car with around 90% of the performance of the equivalent 7 but with the benefit of being usable all year round, keeping you warm in winter and avoiding getting wet in the summer rain!

I don't have a clear picture of the car in my own mind yet, never mind anything I could share on here, but I was thinking of trying to incorporate Alfa 159 or Brera headlights - giving the car an angular styling cue, to contrast with the curvy Fury and GKD Evo. Like I said though, I don't have a clear picture, so the Alfa headlights might be abandoned if I ever get round to anything ...

[dave de roxby]

Just some doodles, definitely just doodles, from my scrap book. Quite embarrassing really!

Coupe drawn at Uni around 1968 when I should have been cramming for an exam:

Edited by dave de roxby on Sunday 6th February 01:40

[Frankthered]

Like the coupe Dave!

Forgot to add to my earlier post that the concept could work equally well on the MEV Exocet chassis, or as a mid engined concept on, for example, the Rocket chassis!

I still can't draw, though.

[dave de roxby]

Frankthered said:

I still can't draw, though.

Me neither Frank ... I'm no Italo, but something inside me is trying to get out. So I just keep on doodling! I'm actually better at building things in the 'flesh' so to speak.

Hope to get my chance real soon now after a lifetime waiting. It's gonna be a sort of Riot cum MEV (but nothing like either!) crossed with an erm... Oh well, you'll just have to wait and see.

[fuoriserie]

dave de roxby said:

Just some doodles, definitely just doodles, from my scrap book. Quite embarrassing really!

Coupe drawn at Uni around 1968 when I should have been cramming for an exam:



Idea for a 'Frontini' based on a Vauxhall Whatsit



Doodle of a three-wheeler based on early Renault 5, drawn around 1988



That one might have worked!

Edited by dave de roxby on Friday 21st January 23:39

Hi Dave,
I like the coupè...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Saturday 22 January 18:07

[dave de roxby]

Most grateful Italo and Frank. To think I scribbled that coupe 42 years ago - you can tell by the bumpers and fat tyres! But having looked at it again after all that time, something about the side window outline and rear haunches reminds me of an XK8!!! 42 year old premonition? Nah!!

Those are just fag-packet doodles as you can see which I thought I'd share with you as a joke. But I don't feel ready to share my more laboured designs just yet. I'm really serious about creating a new car to form the basis of a business. After all that time scheming, things seem to be coming together at last.

[fuoriserie]

Another very rough sketch based on the MEV Sonic7 dimensions....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 25th January 21:31

[Steve_D]

fuoriserie said:

Another very rough sketch based on the MEV Sonic7 dimensions....

Now you realy do have me confused.
8 posts back you put up a design where the driver clearly could not see out of the side of the car which I mentioned but got no response.
Now another with the same problem only moreso.

I truely do like your designs but they have to be both practical and compliant with the construction and use regulations otherwise they serve no purpose.

[singlecoil]

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

Another very rough sketch based on the MEV Sonic7 dimensions....

Now you realy do have me confused.
8 posts back you put up a design where the driver clearly could not see out of the side of the car which I mentioned but got no response.
Now another with the same problem only moreso.

I truely do like your designs but they have to be both practical and compliant with the construction and use regulations otherwise they serve no purpose.

I'm glad you said it first, Steve. I also like (more than like) Italo's stuff, but I do find the above a little bit disappointing in that it doesn't show us what a car one could actually build would look like. I think I understand the idea of a design concept, but I suppose my problem is that I tend to look at the picture above, and similar ones, and thing "what would it look like when it was actually something you could put on the road?".

If he could tone down the 'styling' aspect and make it look a bit more real I think I would get really excited.

[fuoriserie]

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

Another very rough sketch based on the MEV Sonic7 dimensions....

Now you realy do have me confused.
8 posts back you put up a design where the driver clearly could not see out of the side of the car which I mentioned but got no response.
Now another with the same problem only moreso.

I truely do like your designs but they have to be both practical and compliant with the construction and use regulations otherwise they serve no purpose.

Hi Steve,

It has the same vision of an Audi TT...the sketch is slightly distorted due to the original image I used as an underlay, but if I used a sideview sketch of the chassis you could understand better the design and see better that you can actually look out of the car...

All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

[Steve_D]

fuoriserie said:

.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.

In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.



Steve

[fuoriserie]

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.

In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.



Steve

Steve
I agree with you and on this sketch I would use a mudguard for the rear if it ever went in production....but this is not a final sketch ready for production, but just for shooting the breeze so to speak....

Italo

[Artstu]

It reminds me of this



but lower and sportier

[fuoriserie]

Artstu said:

It reminds me of this



but lower and sportier

Yes and I really like that Bond Bug...

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 26th January 14:54

[slomax]

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.

In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.

The problem we have here is that if all initial design sketches meet all legal requirements currently then there is no pushing the envelope. What you have to do is start off with something a bit crazy, then tone them down to fit in line with current laws and regs. If everyone started out with a shape that was legally perfect, then there would be very few new ideas and vehicle laws would never change. I can't imagine it will be too long before an all new driving system will be looked at, as well as fly-by-wire steering, forcing the laws to change. I know i am talking about the future- maybe 10 or 20 years down the road, but nonetheless, the theory still applies. If you look at all concept cars, the doors are crazy, the wheels are too big, the tyres are too small, the wheelarches don't have enough clearance, they look mental, but these give the company a design language and direction. I'm not saying that the legality of these vehicles isn't important, because they are, but i am saying that you need crazy ideas to turn into good ones for a new and unusual design.

[singlecoil]

slomax said:

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.

In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.

The problem we have here is that if all initial design sketches meet all legal requirements currently then there is no pushing the envelope. What you have to do is start off with something a bit crazy, then tone them down to fit in line with current laws and regs. If everyone started out with a shape that was legally perfect, then there would be very few new ideas and vehicle laws would never change. I can't imagine it will be too long before an all new driving system will be looked at, as well as fly-by-wire steering, forcing the laws to change. I know i am talking about the future- maybe 10 or 20 years down the road, but nonetheless, the theory still applies. If you look at all concept cars, the doors are crazy, the wheels are too big, the tyres are too small, the wheelarches don't have enough clearance, they look mental, but these give the company a design language and direction. I'm not saying that the legality of these vehicles isn't important, because they are, but i am saying that you need crazy ideas to turn into good ones for a new and unusual design.

It may well be that sketches of the type you describe are needed (though I don't know by who), but even if they are, how about letting us see the next step, something that actually could be built and put on the road? That's certainly what I would like to see, something that is actually buildable, and which include answers to questions such as "where can glass like that be got from, and where will the necessar air-conditioning unit go, and what about windscreen wipers", in other words- all the mundane stuff that turn flights of fancy into viable cars.

[slomax]

singlecoil said:

slomax said:

Steve_D said:

fuoriserie said:

.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....

Italo

As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.

In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.

The problem we have here is that if all initial design sketches meet all legal requirements currently then there is no pushing the envelope. What you have to do is start off with something a bit crazy, then tone them down to fit in line with current laws and regs. If everyone started out with a shape that was legally perfect, then there would be very few new ideas and vehicle laws would never change. I can't imagine it will be too long before an all new driving system will be looked at, as well as fly-by-wire steering, forcing the laws to change. I know i am talking about the future- maybe 10 or 20 years down the road, but nonetheless, the theory still applies. If you look at all concept cars, the doors are crazy, the wheels are too big, the tyres are too small, the wheelarches don't have enough clearance, they look mental, but these give the company a design language and direction. I'm not saying that the legality of these vehicles isn't important, because they are, but i am saying that you need crazy ideas to turn into good ones for a new and unusual design.

It may well be that sketches of the type you describe are needed (though I don't know by who), but even if they are, how about letting us see the next step, something that actually could be built and put on the road? That's certainly what I would like to see, something that is actually buildable, and which include answers to questions such as "where can glass like that be got from, and where will the necessar air-conditioning unit go, and what about windscreen wipers", in other words- all the mundane stuff that turn flights of fancy into viable cars.

ahh, an engineer... excellent. *passes project over to you* when you have worked all that out, pass it back to us and we will try to make it pretty again...

I joke of course. Although there is an air of truth to that. In the major car manufacturers this is largely what happens, but now there are more designers who think about things like this when designing. Of course, the mass production market is far different from the Kit car industry. As i said in my earlier post though, once you have created something whacky, you can then worry about where you are going to get stuff from and the legalities and modify the design to suit while still keeping the original lines, proportions and facial characteristics of the vehicle, as well as package.

In answer to your question, most people find cool looking cars more attractive to a well packaged vehicle. There is of course a balance to be struck within the category of the target market.

I'll try to dig out one of my projects from last year where i worked on a single seat motorbike powered vehicle.