Vixen vs 3000m fast road car
Discussion
Hi
ive been thinking about my next potential road/track car
so far i havnt owned a TVR, but i currently have a ginetta G4, and a couple of other RWD cars
The G4 is a fantastic track car, but makes other sports cars seem quite dull
ive also owned marcos v8 and renault aplines and some rwd japanese and american cars in the past.
The older TVRs seem like a potential great useable fun car. Im torn between vixen and 3000m, although for cost reasons im leaning towarsd the 3000.
plan would be to either keep the essex v6 and try to get 200bhp+, or swap it out for a v8 of some sort.
I know that the 3000m can be a very quick car, julian barter does very well in 70s roadsports races, and his laptimes are comprable to the leading 60s cars (elans etc). i also race my G4 in hscc
i notice that the 3000 has square tube chassis while earlier cars mostly round. is there much difference in rigidity?
appreciate advice on any of the above
thanks
ive been thinking about my next potential road/track car
so far i havnt owned a TVR, but i currently have a ginetta G4, and a couple of other RWD cars
The G4 is a fantastic track car, but makes other sports cars seem quite dull
ive also owned marcos v8 and renault aplines and some rwd japanese and american cars in the past.
The older TVRs seem like a potential great useable fun car. Im torn between vixen and 3000m, although for cost reasons im leaning towarsd the 3000.
plan would be to either keep the essex v6 and try to get 200bhp+, or swap it out for a v8 of some sort.
I know that the 3000m can be a very quick car, julian barter does very well in 70s roadsports races, and his laptimes are comprable to the leading 60s cars (elans etc). i also race my G4 in hscc
i notice that the 3000 has square tube chassis while earlier cars mostly round. is there much difference in rigidity?
appreciate advice on any of the above
thanks
madsvlund said:
My M3000 with a 250 hp jaguar S engine and gearbox, less ~100kg compared to the essex and make the car do 0-60 in less than 5sec with plenty of smoke
I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
looking great, any more info or pics? looks like round tube chassis??I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
gmw9666 said:
nice Taimar race car pictures here = http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
interesting car, essex v6, and looks like a griffith sytle bonnet.surprised it fits on the taimar so easily
Slow M said:
Welcome to our world!
I have two thoughts.
1.) HOW FAST?
2.) To begin with, set a budgetary limit. Then, determine if you can build the TVR you want at that cost. Next, try to imagine a timeline. (Now, spend some time contemplating whether you'd be better off buying an existing racing car.)
Best,
B.
yep, sounds sensible. main problem is that i wont be doing the work myself, and these type of builds always take longer and cost more than what you thinkI have two thoughts.
1.) HOW FAST?
2.) To begin with, set a budgetary limit. Then, determine if you can build the TVR you want at that cost. Next, try to imagine a timeline. (Now, spend some time contemplating whether you'd be better off buying an existing racing car.)
Best,
B.
I got lucky with my G4, found one needing full restoration, but complete. there is a build thread here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
thanks Bernard, my current thinking so far,
around 250 hp would be ample in the TVR chassis for a road car.
the essex v6 is often quoted as a 'heavy' engine, but figures suggest it weighs less than a 289 ford v8.
250 hp with essex v6 should be fairly achievable
chassis would be M-series or vixen,
if M-series, then basically it would involve a re-body to tuscan v6 shape. But im not sure how my insurer would view the car, and if i would have trouble insuring it. This may be even more of a problem if i go the route of upgrading a vixen to tuscan spec, as then it is heavily modified, as opposed to just re-bodied..!
around 250 hp would be ample in the TVR chassis for a road car.
the essex v6 is often quoted as a 'heavy' engine, but figures suggest it weighs less than a 289 ford v8.
250 hp with essex v6 should be fairly achievable
chassis would be M-series or vixen,
if M-series, then basically it would involve a re-body to tuscan v6 shape. But im not sure how my insurer would view the car, and if i would have trouble insuring it. This may be even more of a problem if i go the route of upgrading a vixen to tuscan spec, as then it is heavily modified, as opposed to just re-bodied..!
heightswitch said:
Don't forget...
302 has cast iron heads and intake in std form
A re-furb or crate engine built with alloy heads and intake is considerably lighter than one in standard specification.
A block on its own is relatively light but you still need pretty big b
ks to lift one. block for block a little essex is lighter than a small block, again allow for heads and inlet.
the biggest advantage of the small block ford is the narrow angle and distance between the exhaust manifolds...
What I don't understand though is if anyone is building and modifying a road car and not subject to any racing regs etc then why does everyone seem to want to use such antiquated old crap. There are a lot of modern very powerful 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines out there very cheaply available..
Duratec V6 powering the current ginettas for example??
even a Duratec 4 cylinder Turbo in a vixen would likely as not trounce a V8 car??
N.
this is a good point.302 has cast iron heads and intake in std form
A re-furb or crate engine built with alloy heads and intake is considerably lighter than one in standard specification.
A block on its own is relatively light but you still need pretty big b
ks to lift one. block for block a little essex is lighter than a small block, again allow for heads and inlet.the biggest advantage of the small block ford is the narrow angle and distance between the exhaust manifolds...
What I don't understand though is if anyone is building and modifying a road car and not subject to any racing regs etc then why does everyone seem to want to use such antiquated old crap. There are a lot of modern very powerful 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines out there very cheaply available..
Duratec V6 powering the current ginettas for example??
even a Duratec 4 cylinder Turbo in a vixen would likely as not trounce a V8 car??
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 12th November 13:15
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 12th November 13:22
however, on an old car (60s) keeping and modifying the original engine may help with residual value of the car
Second, as i mentioned earlier i have had some problems in the past trying to get good insurance quotes for heavily modified classics. (classics running more modern and powerful engines)
apart from that, the Duratec (I4 or v6) engine would win hands down..
i would have to agree with u Mads
approx 250 bhp per tonne would be about right, to allow for a predictable fast road car. A v8 would sound amazing and have a certain appeal, but in reality it may make the handling worse with that heavy lump and the extra power probably un-necessary and not useable
my G4 has 240 bhp per tonne (weighs 510kg) and it can outhandle most other machinery old and new.
how did you get your 3000m down to 800kg Mads?
approx 250 bhp per tonne would be about right, to allow for a predictable fast road car. A v8 would sound amazing and have a certain appeal, but in reality it may make the handling worse with that heavy lump and the extra power probably un-necessary and not useable
my G4 has 240 bhp per tonne (weighs 510kg) and it can outhandle most other machinery old and new.
how did you get your 3000m down to 800kg Mads?
Edited by geeeman on Tuesday 12th November 19:16
so having thought about things abit more and researched
my ideal would be to get a Vixen for resto. It would have a griffith bonnet (purely because it looks great i think) and rear i would fit mk1 cortina lights rather than the mk2s
engine would be duratec 2 litre or 2.3, easy to maintain, powerful enough, reliable.. and more inkeeping with the cars original power unit, although at the expense of originality
Still tempted by v6 or v8, but i think overall the weight penalty and extra expense may not be worth it
seems like a lwb car with mk1 lights
my ideal would be to get a Vixen for resto. It would have a griffith bonnet (purely because it looks great i think) and rear i would fit mk1 cortina lights rather than the mk2s
engine would be duratec 2 litre or 2.3, easy to maintain, powerful enough, reliable.. and more inkeeping with the cars original power unit, although at the expense of originality
Still tempted by v6 or v8, but i think overall the weight penalty and extra expense may not be worth it
seems like a lwb car with mk1 lights
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