Road Rallying on a budget!
Discussion
I’m not in the market for car just yet but thought I ask your opinion on the following.
I will be looking for a road rally car to compete in the East of Scotland championship. Current thinking as follows.
No bigger than Escort / Golf size.
Cheap parts
Bumpers suitable for retro-fitting some decent spot lights. (Cibie Oscars or similar) and still be able to raise and lower the bonnet.
Max budget of £500 for the car and around £150-200 for some decent lights, brake pads and possibly a sump guard.
Engine power not too important although I wouldn’t want anything smaller than say a 1.4 litre.
Decent handling as standard.
Not too old (less than 10 years)
Cheap insurance
I’m not too worried about being competitive to start with as it’s been a few years since I went rallying.
Current options include.
Fiat Brava (cheap and plentiful)
Fiat Punto
Ford Escort (as above)
Vauxhall Astra
Rover 200/400
Citroen ZX
Pug 306
Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks.
Martin.
I will be looking for a road rally car to compete in the East of Scotland championship. Current thinking as follows.
No bigger than Escort / Golf size.
Cheap parts
Bumpers suitable for retro-fitting some decent spot lights. (Cibie Oscars or similar) and still be able to raise and lower the bonnet.
Max budget of £500 for the car and around £150-200 for some decent lights, brake pads and possibly a sump guard.
Engine power not too important although I wouldn’t want anything smaller than say a 1.4 litre.
Decent handling as standard.
Not too old (less than 10 years)
Cheap insurance
I’m not too worried about being competitive to start with as it’s been a few years since I went rallying.
Current options include.
Fiat Brava (cheap and plentiful)
Fiat Punto
Ford Escort (as above)
Vauxhall Astra
Rover 200/400
Citroen ZX
Pug 306
Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks.
Martin.
Edited by MGYoung on Wednesday 22 November 15:21
no disrespect but none of those cars are reknowned for their handling ability! if you are going for a fwd, get one that will go round corners......and why no less than a 1.4? road rallying is more about the map work than the power of the car and plenty of cars around 1.4 litre have enough power to embarrass more powerful machinery.
106 XSIs have 95bhp as std how much more would you really need? Citroen AX GTs... cheap as chips, handle ok and easy to prep. anything like a Rover 400 would be awful, they are heavy, the suspension would make you sick and they handle worse than the devil on roller skates. even worse that the bubble shape 200 series.
consider:
106 xsi
205 xs (maybe even a cheap 1.6 GTI?)
AX GT
Swift GTI (unlikely on the budget but you never know)
XR2i
i would also say smaller is better for that sort of thing. put the bonnet on pins too so lowering/raising isnt an issue.
106 XSIs have 95bhp as std how much more would you really need? Citroen AX GTs... cheap as chips, handle ok and easy to prep. anything like a Rover 400 would be awful, they are heavy, the suspension would make you sick and they handle worse than the devil on roller skates. even worse that the bubble shape 200 series.
consider:
106 xsi
205 xs (maybe even a cheap 1.6 GTI?)
AX GT
Swift GTI (unlikely on the budget but you never know)
XR2i
i would also say smaller is better for that sort of thing. put the bonnet on pins too so lowering/raising isnt an issue.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 22 November 16:07
205 GTi - highly recommended, won a championship and a few event classes in one - spot lights are no problem, and they go like hot *&^% we've got a cage and a few other "nice bits" in ours, but even when it was completely standard it was fine. (it even stood up to being rolled without a cage as well)
306 - terrible for road rallies, a friend bought a GTI6 for that purpose and never had any success with it - too much grip at the back for the (hydraulic) handbrake to spin it round, more difficult to thread down tight lanes and it was no quicker than our 205
I started in a Nova - popular car, perhaps a little outclassed nowadays - shell needs plenty of beefing up to stop it flexing badly
In general, the smaller / lighter / more powerful your car, the easier you'll find it.
306 - terrible for road rallies, a friend bought a GTI6 for that purpose and never had any success with it - too much grip at the back for the (hydraulic) handbrake to spin it round, more difficult to thread down tight lanes and it was no quicker than our 205
I started in a Nova - popular car, perhaps a little outclassed nowadays - shell needs plenty of beefing up to stop it flexing badly
In general, the smaller / lighter / more powerful your car, the easier you'll find it.
Hey - no question the biggest thing to consider is that availablity of bits as otherwise you'll be into making stuff and it is a nightmare.
Only two cars to consider - Vauxhall Nova or Peugeot 205. That way you can keep adding bits as your budget/experience builds. Also make sure you know the regs and read the blue book to stop yourself falling foul - remember no HID lights on road rallies and some events don't even allow additional spots.
A sump guard is a must if you are going to do anything over the year as some events have some very rough white on them see:-
www.chelmsfordmc.co.uk/gallery2/v/Preston
Only two cars to consider - Vauxhall Nova or Peugeot 205. That way you can keep adding bits as your budget/experience builds. Also make sure you know the regs and read the blue book to stop yourself falling foul - remember no HID lights on road rallies and some events don't even allow additional spots.
A sump guard is a must if you are going to do anything over the year as some events have some very rough white on them see:-
www.chelmsfordmc.co.uk/gallery2/v/Preston
pablo said:
anything like a Rover 400 would be awful, they are heavy, the suspension would make you sick and they handle worse than the devil on roller skates. even worse that the bubble shape 200 series.
With respect, I reckon you've got that wrong. The Rover 400 was quite a good little drivers car, underneath that pipe and slippers exterior. So were the 200's.
It was no surprise to me that the ZS was so well regarded. I had a ride in a mates 180 at the 'ring, one time. It was wet and it was his third ever lap, having never clapped eyes on the place before in any shape or form. I was staggered with the speed that thing could carry through corners, simply staggered. When we caught and passed a GT3 (caged, occupants helmeted and belted) well, I was knocked out!
The Rover 200's are good little cars. I don't like the K series engine but I believe the 1.4's didn't suffer the head gasket malarkies that all the other engines seemed to. However, you can rev the nuts off the thing, which is a terrific feeling when hammering the lanes at night in second and third gears.
They're cheap, and possibly cheaper to insure than the Pugs and saxos etc.
The Pugs and saxos are also bloody good cars. I'd be wary of a 205 though 'cos they can really bite! I'd work up to one of them.
Bloody good sport, road rallying. Good luck.
TBH you can have fun road rallying anything! However just keep in mind that if this is going to be the main stay of your sporting year then the top thoughts have to be available bits..
Anyway - lots of stuff in midlands - one on mid-Dec in Telford. Best place for info is the forum on britishrally.co.uk
Laters - Phil Bennett
Anyway - lots of stuff in midlands - one on mid-Dec in Telford. Best place for info is the forum on britishrally.co.uk
Laters - Phil Bennett
heebeegeetee said:
pablo said:
anything like a Rover 400 would be awful, they are heavy, the suspension would make you sick and they handle worse than the devil on roller skates. even worse that the bubble shape 200 series.
With respect, I reckon you've got that wrong. The Rover 400 was quite a good little drivers car, underneath that pipe and slippers exterior. So were the 200's.
It was no surprise to me that the ZS was so well regarded. I had a ride in a mates 180 at the 'ring, one time. It was wet and it was his third ever lap, having never clapped eyes on the place before in any shape or form. I was staggered with the speed that thing could carry through corners, simply staggered. When we caught and passed a GT3 (caged, occupants helmeted and belted) well, I was knocked out!
The Rover 200's are good little cars. I don't like the K series engine but I believe the 1.4's didn't suffer the head gasket malarkies that all the other engines seemed to. However, you can rev the nuts off the thing, which is a terrific feeling when hammering the lanes at night in second and third gears.
They're cheap, and possibly cheaper to insure than the Pugs and saxos etc.
The Pugs and saxos are also bloody good cars. I'd be wary of a 205 though 'cos they can really bite! I'd work up to one of them.
Bloody good sport, road rallying. Good luck.
i had a 214 si for a year or two, it was great in a straight line, the k series really moved it along well but it just did not go round corners, no feedback, no grip, suspension like a bouncy castle. i would thikn they would need more work than a standard 205 to get them to a drivebale state. having also had a 205, well there really is no comparison. the only issue being the number of solid 205s you find is liekly to be quite low as most will be nearly 20 years old!
Keeping the Engine under 1.4 opens you up in to Endurance rallying if you want to go there. The Rover 200's are pretty well regarded for that.
We see quite a few modern road rally cars tacked on to the the back of the Historic Road rallies we do, it lets you get a flavour of special tests, which are often like minuature special stages, lots of fun and cheap to enter.
We see quite a few modern road rally cars tacked on to the the back of the Historic Road rallies we do, it lets you get a flavour of special tests, which are often like minuature special stages, lots of fun and cheap to enter.
velocemitch said:
Keeping the Engine under 1.4 opens you up in to Endurance rallying if you want to go there. The Rover 200's are pretty well regarded for that.
...but everyone knows the Rovers are only as good as they are because of the navigators sat in them...ahem...
Best car to start doing road rallies in would be a 205 GTi, either 1.6 or 1.9, doesn't really matter. If you want to open up your options a little, look for a 1400 16v Rover 200, 1300 106 Rallye, or 1400 Corsa/Nova.
My Dad and I started with a 205, cheap, loads of them about, can get bits for them easily, handles well, goes well...get your navigator sorted and you're onto a winner.
spectatorsam said:
can't find any info so far
any links please?
ta
any links please?
ta
The biggest problem with road rallies can be finding out about them, because each event is run by a different motor club, there isn't much in the way of a central resource for finding out about events.
The following websites may help though.
http://aswmc.org.uk/nrally.htm
www.southernroadrallychampionship.org.uk/
There's also an excellent site
www.ukmotorsport.com/rallying_uk_road.html
that will help you out with all the information you may need.
If you need any more help, let me know, always keen do introduce new people to the finest hobby in the land!!!!
grahamdance said:
velocemitch said:
Keeping the Engine under 1.4 opens you up in to Endurance rallying if you want to go there. The Rover 200's are pretty well regarded for that.
...but everyone knows the Rovers are only as good as they are because of the navigators sat in them...ahem...
Best car to start doing road rallies in would be a 205 GTi, either 1.6 or 1.9, doesn't really matter. If you want to open up your options a little, look for a 1400 16v Rover 200, 1300 106 Rallye, or 1400 Corsa/Nova.
My Dad and I started with a 205, cheap, loads of them about, can get bits for them easily, handles well, goes well...get your navigator sorted and you're onto a winner.
There's always one...
205 GTi is probably still the mutts nuts, and is what i'm playing in next year.
More people are using Proton Persona Compacts now than before, as they were developed by lotus and the handling is good.
Any small hot hatch is good for it.
jamesvw said:
I'm considering getting into rallying too. I'm getting something very basic to begin with, I've seen a 1.0L Pug 205, what are the basics I need to get racing? Roll cage,etc. whats the bare minimum cost im looking at to get going?
For road rallying you could do it in a completely standard car if you wanted.
Ideally you need at least a sump guard, 2 spotlights (maximum of 4 forward facing beams) and harness seat belts.
The sump guard you can buy for < £100 or make your own, apparently men at work signs are good particuarly 2 face to face....
Lights are however much you wish to spend on them, some are silly money.
Harnesses can be picked up quite cheaply.
You might want to improve the brakes as you will spend a lot of time using them!
You probably don't want an engine much smaller than a 1.4 really.
Your best bet is to join your local motor club and go out marshalling on a road rally first, then have a go at scatters and 12 cars to see if you enjoy it.
k50 del said:
That's a familiar name who got 3rd overall in the navigators championship
nic jones said:
k50 del said:
That's a familiar name who got 3rd overall in the navigators championship
Congratulations, 3rd overall in the Albania State Washing Machine championship is no mean feat, I think Paul and I finished 3rd ASWMC the year we won the Sebron.
Was hoping to commit to a full ASWMC season in '07, but finances look likely to curtail that unfortunately.
k50 del said:
nic jones said:
k50 del said:
That's a familiar name who got 3rd overall in the navigators championship
Congratulations, 3rd overall in the Albania State Washing Machine championship is no mean feat, I think Paul and I finished 3rd ASWMC the year we won the Sebron.
Was hoping to commit to a full ASWMC season in '07, but finances look likely to curtail that unfortunately.
Thanks, annoyingly I forgot to enter the Sebron this year even though I did quite a few events which counted and would have got a good points haul from the Carpet Bagger and a few others. Oh well next year maybe.
We've just finished our first year of Historic Road rallying, mainly daylight events, but along the way we did one night historic and a modern 12 Car. All damn good fun, i'm still a bit puzzled by the timing on the night events though.
I know in the good (Some would say bad!!) old days of Targa timing and 60 averages, Road Rallying was a very fast and furious affair, but these days with 30MPH averages it does seem much more sensible. But i'm speaking from very limited experiance here, my impression is that most sections are cleanable if you get the navigation right and keep up a fairly brisk pace. The deciders are a few very tight areas where you have to go like stink to catch up for lost time negotiating triangles, code boards, secret checks and gates etc..
On historics we get penalised for arriving early at controls (even waiting outside), as well as obviously arriving late, this doesn't seem to be the case on modern events, or am I missing something??. I'm still a bit puzzled how we dropped time on some sections of a recent 12 car, when our clock said we didn't, some minutes are shorter than others it seems!
I know in the good (Some would say bad!!) old days of Targa timing and 60 averages, Road Rallying was a very fast and furious affair, but these days with 30MPH averages it does seem much more sensible. But i'm speaking from very limited experiance here, my impression is that most sections are cleanable if you get the navigation right and keep up a fairly brisk pace. The deciders are a few very tight areas where you have to go like stink to catch up for lost time negotiating triangles, code boards, secret checks and gates etc..
On historics we get penalised for arriving early at controls (even waiting outside), as well as obviously arriving late, this doesn't seem to be the case on modern events, or am I missing something??. I'm still a bit puzzled how we dropped time on some sections of a recent 12 car, when our clock said we didn't, some minutes are shorter than others it seems!
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