Who owns the IP on the wheel (fairing)?
Discussion
How are wheel fairings going to be dealt with by FIA IP police monitoring the 2008 McLaren?
I really can’t see how this whole IP policing policy is going to work. Most of the progress made year to year in race car design is due to the adaption and refinement of existing technologies. Items that are brand new and unique are few and far between, and only these could have a clear IP ownership attached to them.
Who owned the ‘IP’ on flexi floors? Did Ferrari and BMW achieve it the same way?
AutoSport said:
During the 2007 season, Ferrari and Toyota raced with these parts, while Williams were also seen testing their own versions in late season testing. Now, however, both McLaren and Renault have joined the ranks of teams trying them out. link
Wheel fairings are nothing new, I remember them from the 956 Group C cars in the 80’s, and I guess they have been around for sometime before that. Hence, Ferrari can’t claim the IP on them, but it is a design feature that was used by them in 2007… so can McLaren use them in 2008?I really can’t see how this whole IP policing policy is going to work. Most of the progress made year to year in race car design is due to the adaption and refinement of existing technologies. Items that are brand new and unique are few and far between, and only these could have a clear IP ownership attached to them.
Who owned the ‘IP’ on flexi floors? Did Ferrari and BMW achieve it the same way?
Let's see only Ferrari and Toyota make them work. Hmm two things spring to mind here.
1) Oh hang on, what team has actually been done in a proper court of law, not a show trial, for possesion of Fezza IP?
2)While only one team, Ferrari, make them work (Forget Toyota it will take more than wheel trim to make them competitive) the horrible things will be legal. Once other teams have wasted vast amounts of time and effort to get on the same footing, then Ferrari International Assist will declare them illegal.
Cynical, Who? Me!
1) Oh hang on, what team has actually been done in a proper court of law, not a show trial, for possesion of Fezza IP?
2)While only one team, Ferrari, make them work (Forget Toyota it will take more than wheel trim to make them competitive) the horrible things will be legal. Once other teams have wasted vast amounts of time and effort to get on the same footing, then Ferrari International Assist will declare them illegal.
Cynical, Who? Me!
HayRoger said:
How are wheel fairings going to be dealt with by FIA IP police monitoring the 2008 McLaren?
The FIA have clarified that if you can see it, you haven't stolen it.So if McLaren can show that they saw an idea on another car (on TV or from the pitwall), researched and tested it, they're probably in the clear (unless it is shown that they had drawings to crib from). If the item were damper internals 9as is believed to be the case in the McLaren-Renault case), that's not something you can see, and you're on thin ice.
Having said that, and as we're likely to find in the next few hours, the FIA's application of their rules is...haphazard.
MrKipling43 said:
Aside from the fact that they are clearly moveable aerodynamic parts, these should be banned on the basis that they look ABSOLUTELY CRAP!
Awful to the point at which I actually find them offensive.
The ban on moveable parts that influence the car's aerodynamics relates to the sprung mass, not to the unsprung parts.Awful to the point at which I actually find them offensive.
AIUI, the possible rules that the fairing may break relate to:
- no bodywork allowed around the wheels, and
- the wheels must be made of metal.
Ferrari argued that the fairings were for brake cooling. They were not bodywork around the wheels, and they were not wheels.
There is a rule that limits the size of a brake duct opening (which got Williams tossed out of the Canadian GP results a few years back). I'm not sure why the fairing does not violate that rule.
Yes, they are hideous looking.
flemke said:
Why is that - do you think there's a big market for fixed wheel fairings and centre-lock wheels on road cars?
I wouldn't think it's impossible. Although Mr Scarborough says that these items heavily influence the drag of an open wheel, their influence in that area full stop gives reason to believe it could be beneficial to a road car (probably a Prius..!).The teams are still keeping quiet a bit about exactly what makes them tick (I would like to see whether the benefit is seen on the inside or the outside of the wheel).
Edited by zac510 on Thursday 6th December 14:49
zac510 said:
flemke said:
Why is that - do you think there's a big market for fixed wheel fairings and centre-lock wheels on road cars?
I wouldn't think it's impossible. Although Mr Scarborough says that these items heavily influence the drag of an open wheel, their influence in that area full stop gives reason to believe it could be beneficial to a road car (probably a Prius..!).The teams are still keeping quiet a bit about exactly what makes them tick (I would like to see whether the benefit is seen on the inside or the outside of the wheel).
Edited by zac510 on Thursday 6th December 14:49
On a road car (particularly something as un-sporty as a Prius) there would be no great need to maximise brake cooling, the bodywork around the wheel would make it much less effective, and it would be much harder to do this on a FWD car. The aerodynamic benefit of a dish syle wheel is easily achieved with a wheel trim or the design of the wheel itself. It's ironic that a prius not only has spoke (rather than dish) style wheels, but also they have wheel trims clipped to an alloy, adding weight (not much admittedly) & cost compared to simply using a dish-shaped alloy.
I think on F1 cars the frisbees are an accident waiting to happen.
thy should b banned under the "it looks rubbish rule" which was previously used to ban the godawful side pod wings on stalks that were invented by tyrell I think.
As soon as everyone started using them they were banned for safety reasons. I cant see the wheel manufacturers being too happy that theyre wheels are going to be covered up by some blooming ugly plastic tat.
As soon as everyone started using them they were banned for safety reasons. I cant see the wheel manufacturers being too happy that theyre wheels are going to be covered up by some blooming ugly plastic tat.
Riverside said:
The opening at the bottom allows air to be draw out through the wheel by the low pressure wake of the wheel, aiding brake cooling.
On a road car (particularly something as un-sporty as a Prius) there would be no great need to maximise brake cooling, the bodywork around the wheel would make it much less effective, and it would be much harder to do this on a FWD car. The aerodynamic benefit of a dish syle wheel is easily achieved with a wheel trim or the design of the wheel itself. It's ironic that a prius not only has spoke (rather than dish) style wheels, but also they have wheel trims clipped to an alloy, adding weight (not much admittedly) & cost compared to simply using a dish-shaped alloy.
I think on F1 cars the frisbees are an accident waiting to happen.
From what I understand the f1 fairings are quite a bit more complicated than that, but I'm happy to leave the verdict for road cars open. I just don't like fans 'banning' stuff for such vain reasons. It sets an ugly (pardon the pun) precedent, imo.On a road car (particularly something as un-sporty as a Prius) there would be no great need to maximise brake cooling, the bodywork around the wheel would make it much less effective, and it would be much harder to do this on a FWD car. The aerodynamic benefit of a dish syle wheel is easily achieved with a wheel trim or the design of the wheel itself. It's ironic that a prius not only has spoke (rather than dish) style wheels, but also they have wheel trims clipped to an alloy, adding weight (not much admittedly) & cost compared to simply using a dish-shaped alloy.
I think on F1 cars the frisbees are an accident waiting to happen.
zac510 said:
flemke said:
Why is that - do you think there's a big market for fixed wheel fairings and centre-lock wheels on road cars?
I wouldn't think it's impossible. Although Mr Scarborough says that these items heavily influence the drag of an open wheel, their influence in that area full stop gives reason to believe it could be beneficial to a road car (probably a Prius..!).The teams are still keeping quiet a bit about exactly what makes them tick (I would like to see whether the benefit is seen on the inside or the outside of the wheel).
flemke said:
zac510 said:
flemke said:
Why is that - do you think there's a big market for fixed wheel fairings and centre-lock wheels on road cars?
I wouldn't think it's impossible. Although Mr Scarborough says that these items heavily influence the drag of an open wheel, their influence in that area full stop gives reason to believe it could be beneficial to a road car (probably a Prius..!).The teams are still keeping quiet a bit about exactly what makes them tick (I would like to see whether the benefit is seen on the inside or the outside of the wheel).
zac510 said:
Riverside said:
The opening at the bottom allows air to be draw out through the wheel by the low pressure wake of the wheel, aiding brake cooling.
On a road car (particularly something as un-sporty as a Prius) there would be no great need to maximise brake cooling, the bodywork around the wheel would make it much less effective, and it would be much harder to do this on a FWD car. The aerodynamic benefit of a dish syle wheel is easily achieved with a wheel trim or the design of the wheel itself. It's ironic that a prius not only has spoke (rather than dish) style wheels, but also they have wheel trims clipped to an alloy, adding weight (not much admittedly) & cost compared to simply using a dish-shaped alloy.
I think on F1 cars the frisbees are an accident waiting to happen.
the precedent was set with th aforementioned sidepod wings which everyon thought were ugly and bernie thought so too. They were banned for safety reasons not long after.On a road car (particularly something as un-sporty as a Prius) there would be no great need to maximise brake cooling, the bodywork around the wheel would make it much less effective, and it would be much harder to do this on a FWD car. The aerodynamic benefit of a dish syle wheel is easily achieved with a wheel trim or the design of the wheel itself. It's ironic that a prius not only has spoke (rather than dish) style wheels, but also they have wheel trims clipped to an alloy, adding weight (not much admittedly) & cost compared to simply using a dish-shaped alloy.
I think on F1 cars the frisbees are an accident waiting to happen.
From what I understand the f1 fairings are quite a bit more complicated than that, but I'm happy to leave the verdict for road cars open. I just don't like fans 'banning' stuff for such vain reasons. It sets an ugly (pardon the pun) precedent, imo.
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