so, who's was the Mousler that Hammond hit
Discussion
Ahonen said:
Those of us from here who actually ran cars in that race (and there are a fair few) didn't have any complaints about the TG bunch, by and large, which is what we keep trying to say - but sadly people don't want to hear.
people generally fall into the love Clarkson ot hate Clarkson camp and anything tyhey see to support their views will be used. anything that challenges it will be disregarded out of hand.Thanks for your informed input (and all those who've added their direct experiences)!
are any of the peeps complaining about the mix of cars and the speed differentials actual drivers or teams from the 24hr race ?
I dont think so... If they were they simply wouldnt have bothered...
I've worked all the Britcar 24hrs so far, with a team running a Beemmer and a civic. so a mid speed car and one of the slower cars So barrng some major upset we cant win outright but thats not the point were there because we want to be, and want to do our best in the class. We know there is a huge mix of performance and ability, and the chance to compete on the same circuit at the same time as cars like th duller z4 and the moslers is great.. I wouldnt like to see any changes in what cars are run. Personally when I've got a budget together Im looking to drive myself probably in something midway in the performace stakes and rwd, So getting lapped and lapping all the time.
The Britcar 24 aint broken in that respect so dont fix it its a fantastic event, for all the teams up and down the pit lane..
Cars do occasionally get taken out through no fault of there own, look at the TVR T400 at Spa. minding its own business at the bus stop then an out of control Audi R8 comes flying through backwards and virtualy destoyed the TVR. Are we saying proto and GT cars should mix as well?
Heck I was at the Nring 24 and that started with a GT Aston at the front and an old a-series mini on track at the same time, in fog, in the most dangerous cirucit in the world....
I dont think so... If they were they simply wouldnt have bothered...
I've worked all the Britcar 24hrs so far, with a team running a Beemmer and a civic. so a mid speed car and one of the slower cars So barrng some major upset we cant win outright but thats not the point were there because we want to be, and want to do our best in the class. We know there is a huge mix of performance and ability, and the chance to compete on the same circuit at the same time as cars like th duller z4 and the moslers is great.. I wouldnt like to see any changes in what cars are run. Personally when I've got a budget together Im looking to drive myself probably in something midway in the performace stakes and rwd, So getting lapped and lapping all the time.
The Britcar 24 aint broken in that respect so dont fix it its a fantastic event, for all the teams up and down the pit lane..
Cars do occasionally get taken out through no fault of there own, look at the TVR T400 at Spa. minding its own business at the bus stop then an out of control Audi R8 comes flying through backwards and virtualy destoyed the TVR. Are we saying proto and GT cars should mix as well?
Heck I was at the Nring 24 and that started with a GT Aston at the front and an old a-series mini on track at the same time, in fog, in the most dangerous cirucit in the world....
Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to expect drivers in a 24 to have completed a few races races previously (i.e. have a National A).
It won't necessarily de-risk the thing but it does at least mean that complete novices are forced to get some prior experience, rather than learn 'on the job' in one of the most demanding types of race there is.
In reality the vast majority of drivers in the race probably either held Nat A or have already got sufficient signatures to have one if they wanted.
I'll bet there were a whole heap of comings together during the race that haven't been reported or commented upon - this is only being debated because it was Hammond
It won't necessarily de-risk the thing but it does at least mean that complete novices are forced to get some prior experience, rather than learn 'on the job' in one of the most demanding types of race there is.
In reality the vast majority of drivers in the race probably either held Nat A or have already got sufficient signatures to have one if they wanted.
I'll bet there were a whole heap of comings together during the race that haven't been reported or commented upon - this is only being debated because it was Hammond
There are a lot of people missing the point, and BTW can some stop this "how many people were there, who has done this, raced in that, etc." You'd be surprised how experienced some people are but just don't wish to wave it in everybodies face.
There are many professional/semi pro drivers who do the Britcar 24hr simply because they love racing and want to do more racing, earn some money and perhaps even challenge for the win.
As has already been said many of them did a road rally earlier in December across in Norfolk (The Preston is not a geo reference but a sponsor!) in old bangers brought off ebay and prep'd in various states. Now that has nothing to do with earning money and everything to do with having a laugh and enjoying the sport.. For those that don't know a road rally is about as grass roots as it gets. £70 entry fee, 200 mile route takes around 9 hours to do.
So again before some people take the view that all pro drivers are w4nk3rs perhaps they might raise their gaze a little.
The TG thing was a nice story but sadly some of them didn't prepare as well as they might have and whilst some can say well the guy was a novice and he had a big yellow cross on the car - yes all accepted.
BUT... Firstly in the dark, mid corner how effective is an un-lit 4cm square sticker? Plus nobody expects him to swere about the race track - why did he do that? I think it was because he had little idea of where he was going - and no surprises because he had only done a handful of laps by this time.
There are many professional/semi pro drivers who do the Britcar 24hr simply because they love racing and want to do more racing, earn some money and perhaps even challenge for the win.
As has already been said many of them did a road rally earlier in December across in Norfolk (The Preston is not a geo reference but a sponsor!) in old bangers brought off ebay and prep'd in various states. Now that has nothing to do with earning money and everything to do with having a laugh and enjoying the sport.. For those that don't know a road rally is about as grass roots as it gets. £70 entry fee, 200 mile route takes around 9 hours to do.
So again before some people take the view that all pro drivers are w4nk3rs perhaps they might raise their gaze a little.
The TG thing was a nice story but sadly some of them didn't prepare as well as they might have and whilst some can say well the guy was a novice and he had a big yellow cross on the car - yes all accepted.
BUT... Firstly in the dark, mid corner how effective is an un-lit 4cm square sticker? Plus nobody expects him to swere about the race track - why did he do that? I think it was because he had little idea of where he was going - and no surprises because he had only done a handful of laps by this time.
Edited by 2priestsferrari on Friday 21st December 10:58
Edited by 2priestsferrari on Friday 21st December 10:59
teamHOLDENracing said:
I'll bet there were a whole heap of comings together during the race that haven't been reported or commented upon - this is only being debated because it was Hammond
yip, do a search on the marshal's forum of 10/10ths... pleanty of the marshals talking about the various incidents that happened on their post over the course of the race. Now if anyone wants to come and help where the real work is done
rather than fannying about in the paddock with the silly kids in their cars... we can always do with the extra help on the bank, The marshal numbers could always do with a boost, even if your not very experianced, your presence could help by just being company on a long night shift, and an extra pair of hands should anything come to say hello.I'm going to weight up weither to come down next year, or stay up north for the Harewood finals
2priestsferrari said:
BUT... Firstly in the dark, mid corner how effective is an un-lit 4cm square sticker? Plus nobody expects him to swere about the race track - why did he do that? I think it was because he had little idea of where he was going - and no surprises because he had only done a handful of laps by this time.
I was in a 968 with standard road-legal headlights and no extra lighting & it was clearly visible - in fact their car was easy enough to identify without the cross & hence give a wide berth/overtake with extra caution. If you're catching a car it's pretty clear that you'll soon be overtaking it - and as a driver of the overtaking car clearly there's some responsibility. Especially in a 24hr race - hospital or trophy isn't the strategy to be running at that early a stage of the race.
Lady Summerisle said:
teamHOLDENracing said:
I'll bet there were a whole heap of comings together during the race that haven't been reported or commented upon - this is only being debated because it was Hammond
yip, do a search on the marshal's forum of 10/10ths... pleanty of the marshals talking about the various incidents that happened on their post over the course of the race. Now if anyone wants to come and help where the real work is done
rather than fannying about in the paddock with the silly kids in their cars... we can always do with the extra help on the bank, The marshal numbers could always do with a boost, even if your not very experianced, your presence could help by just being company on a long night shift, and an extra pair of hands should anything come to say hello.I'm going to weight up weither to come down next year, or stay up north for the Harewood finals
Agree if this Britcar 24 hour thing is not Nat A, it bloody well should be (even 10 races by a novice would help).
For me, unless all the cars or a huge number of them in the race, are in the same class this 24 hour stuff seems a bit of a waste of time and really just glorified track day. Just wearing the car out!
Never have seen the point of really long races, where real CAR endurance come into it - not so much down to the driver when the final results come out is it! Don't really get all this team stuff though so don't even get the concept of having 3 people in a car, 1 car for one person and race falt out.
I bet there were next to no spectators at this event - must be like watching paint dry after a while. (Think the most I could ever take of LM in one hit was 1/2 hour!).
Racing is one man against one other man for me anyway.
For me, unless all the cars or a huge number of them in the race, are in the same class this 24 hour stuff seems a bit of a waste of time and really just glorified track day. Just wearing the car out!
Never have seen the point of really long races, where real CAR endurance come into it - not so much down to the driver when the final results come out is it! Don't really get all this team stuff though so don't even get the concept of having 3 people in a car, 1 car for one person and race falt out.
I bet there were next to no spectators at this event - must be like watching paint dry after a while. (Think the most I could ever take of LM in one hit was 1/2 hour!).
Racing is one man against one other man for me anyway.
telecat said:
I can see it now loads of people in orange suits looking for something to wave a flag at.
would make a change tho wouldnt it 
jellison said:
For me, unless all the cars or a huge number of them in the race, are in the same class this 24 hour stuff seems a bit of a waste of time and really just glorified track day. Just wearing the car out!
1 car for one person and race falt out.
Racing is one man against one other man for me anyway.
So you going to be fielding the first 1 man team in next years 2CV 24hr race then? lets face it, one class, and its raced flat out for the full 24hrs1 car for one person and race falt out.
Racing is one man against one other man for me anyway.
jellison said:
I bet there were next to no spectators at this event - must be like watching paint dry after a while.
seems like most club races i ever go to, except for the big ones like the GT/F3-BTCC etc. very few spectators at all.Surely the good thing about this is the publicity for the race and for motorsport in general. It's sort of proved that you can decide to take part in a 24 hour race with little experience and a small budget.
Whether one should be able to or not is of course another questions! However the race has got masses of publicity which will be ongoing as the episode is reshown on Dave, on highlights shows etc.
Whether one should be able to or not is of course another questions! However the race has got masses of publicity which will be ongoing as the episode is reshown on Dave, on highlights shows etc.
Ahonen said:
Those of us from here who actually ran cars in that race (and there are a fair few) didn't have any complaints about the TG bunch, by and large, which is what we keep trying to say - but sadly people don't want to hear.
Good to hear it. My comments were very much aimed at those who think that motorsport should only be confined to the very wealthy. (And those who believe rather too much of what they see on TV).jellison said:
one man / one car, get on with it and race - does not get more less team orientated.
If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
The (literally) millions of people who tune in to Radio Le Mans every year to follow the race clearly take a different view!If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
Oh and it isn't just down to your contribution in most cases but also to the engineers who help translate your feedback into set-up, the guys who build the cars (and test and develop them too), the tyre guys, the fuelling guys, the strategists - Not just at international levels of the sport but right down to the grass roots.
pdd144c said:
Judging by the way both the Moslers were being driven at the Goldtrack day a few days before hand I'm not suprised they were involved in some kind of accident. They had no regard for anyone else on the circuit, which was noted by many people other than myself, including a certain GT racer!
I wonder who the GT driver could be? 
Enjoying a wee moan, no doubt...
In a race, when you get overtaken by a much faster car, if it didn't hit you, or make you crash, then it might be frightened recipient of the shock that should not be on circuit, not the fast guy.
Trackdays excepted, where you should be a bit more courteous, but in some people's judgement, all overtakes are effrontery and to be discouraged. A bit sad when they run trackdays. Nice bit of circularity there
...
NS24 said:
2priestsferrari said:
BUT... Firstly in the dark, mid corner how effective is an un-lit 4cm square sticker? Plus nobody expects him to swere about the race track - why did he do that? I think it was because he had little idea of where he was going - and no surprises because he had only done a handful of laps by this time.
I was in a 968 with standard road-legal headlights and no extra lighting & it was clearly visible - in fact their car was easy enough to identify without the cross & hence give a wide berth/overtake with extra caution. If you're catching a car it's pretty clear that you'll soon be overtaking it - and as a driver of the overtaking car clearly there's some responsibility. Especially in a 24hr race - hospital or trophy isn't the strategy to be running at that early a stage of the race.
Now if some tugger swerves across the road into you there isn't much you are going to do about it is there? You could keep extending the duty of care but lets face it if we all signal'd and indicated our intent then I don't think you'd be making much progress.
Perhaps the the guy in the slower car with no experience might show some care and might also have taken a view, after several off track moments - to have removed himself from the race as he was a danger to himself and others.
GrahamG said:
jellison said:
one man / one car, get on with it and race - does not get more less team orientated.
If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
The (literally) millions of people who tune in to Radio Le Mans every year to follow the race clearly take a different view!If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
Oh and it isn't just down to your contribution in most cases but also to the engineers who help translate your feedback into set-up, the guys who build the cars (and test and develop them too), the tyre guys, the fuelling guys, the strategists - Not just at international levels of the sport but right down to the grass roots.
jellison said:
GrahamG said:
jellison said:
one man / one car, get on with it and race - does not get more less team orientated.
If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
The (literally) millions of people who tune in to Radio Le Mans every year to follow the race clearly take a different view!If the car holds up you know the result is down to your contribution ONLY.
Oh and it isn't just down to your contribution in most cases but also to the engineers who help translate your feedback into set-up, the guys who build the cars (and test and develop them too), the tyre guys, the fuelling guys, the strategists - Not just at international levels of the sport but right down to the grass roots.
Maybe but one man in one car from lights to flag. It is just down to the driver - the team has nothhing to do with it. The way it should be.
Like racket sports - only the people hitting the ball win the match. Yep I only semi build my car - but if yours and the people you are racings cars hang together it is just you vs them (yes thanks for the people that built the car, but they aren't driving it.
Like racket sports - only the people hitting the ball win the match. Yep I only semi build my car - but if yours and the people you are racings cars hang together it is just you vs them (yes thanks for the people that built the car, but they aren't driving it
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