2017 BTCC silly season
Discussion
Bit of confusion between build cost and running cost here.
Most teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
Most teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
GreenMan said:
Bit of confusion between build cost and running cost here.
Most teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
This is or less my experience and what I've heard. The only thing I would say is that plenty of teams have sponsors to subsidise budgets so the drivers don't necessarily find the full budget, only part of itMost teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
All the licence holders have been announced.
Team Name (alphabetical order) No. of TBLs allocated
AmD Tuning 2
BMR Racing 4
BTC Norlin Racing 2
Ciceley Motorsport 1
Eurotech Racing 2
Handy Motorsport 1
Laser Tools Racing 1
Maximum Motorsport 1
Motorbase Performance 3 *
Power Maxed Racing 2 **
Simpson Racing 1
Speedworks Motorsport 1
Team Dynamics Motorsport 2
Team Hard Racing 3
Team Parker Racing 1
Triple Eight Race Engineering 2
WSR 3
Team Name (alphabetical order) No. of TBLs allocated
AmD Tuning 2
BMR Racing 4
BTC Norlin Racing 2
Ciceley Motorsport 1
Eurotech Racing 2
Handy Motorsport 1
Laser Tools Racing 1
Maximum Motorsport 1
Motorbase Performance 3 *
Power Maxed Racing 2 **
Simpson Racing 1
Speedworks Motorsport 1
Team Dynamics Motorsport 2
Team Hard Racing 3
Team Parker Racing 1
Triple Eight Race Engineering 2
WSR 3
- One TBL on loan from Welch Motorsport
- TBLs on loan from TOCA
The Wookie said:
GreenMan said:
Bit of confusion between build cost and running cost here.
Most teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
This is or less my experience and what I've heard. The only thing I would say is that plenty of teams have sponsors to subsidise budgets so the drivers don't necessarily find the full budget, only part of itMost teams work on something like the below (obviously cost varies depending on desired investment etc):
- first car (i.e with fully-loaded design, R&D cost) can be in the high hundreds of thousands for a top team; much less for someone investing less in wind tunnel testing, bespoke aero, top-end CAD designers and flow modelling etc; also cost of developing bespoke engine via Mountune, NBE etc is very significant
- subsequent cars built to same design and spec much less - £200k
- multI-car teams spread the cost over all their cars and then amortise the total build cost over their lifetime
- "running costs" - I.e. What the drivers have to find to compete for a season - include the amortised/depreciated portion of the build cost, the variable cost of running the car for a year (personnel, transportation, hospitality, tyres, fuel, TOCA engine lease where applicable etc) - anywhere from £250k to £650k if the Neate rumour is true
- significant damage is almost always excluded from the annual cost, though many teams will include say £25k to cover minor stuff (bodywork etc)
On another note, BTC Norlin Racing are showing as only being registered as a business at the end of October? Whole new team or some sort of tax dodge?
I know I did this last year,,,,,,,think someone did it the year before me..but lets see how things are slotting into place.....not all are announced, but think some are inevitable!
Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Gordon Shedden. - alledged new car build?
Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Matt Neal. - alledged new car build?
Simpson Racing/Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Matt Simpson. - alledged new car build?
Eurotech Racing - Honda Civic Type R - Jeff Smith.
Eurotech Racing - Honda Civic Type R - Martin Depper.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Colin Turkington.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Jason Plato.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Warren Scott.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - James Cole. - Can't see a lot of change here despite rumours,,,Cole testing say no more.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Andrew Jordan.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Rob Collard??? - Part of the furniture and good in the car.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Jack Goff??? - Goff posting 'memory' pics on insta..either thanks and farewell..or signed!
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Mat Jackson
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Dan Cammish???
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Dan Welch??? - new car build/spare shell built up - and Dans TBL on loan afterall!
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Michael Epps.
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Will Burns.
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Aron Smith??? - where else? familiar with the car...motorbase return...out of question inho
888 - MG6 - Josh Cook??? - strong 2016, though over shadowed by team mate.
888 - MG6 - Ashley Sutton??? - Excellent rookie year, if a little robust at times,,,888 would be silly not to retain him.
Power Maxed Racing - Vauxhall Astra - Dave Newsham??? - Dave wants to return,,,drove there in 2015 and one off 2016 appearance.
Power Maxed Racing - Vauxhall Astra - Hunter Abbott??? - bit of a guess,,but settled in the team and knows the 2016 TOCA unit.
AmD Tuning - Audi S3 - Ollie Jackson.
AmD Tuning - Audi S3 - - Your guess is as good as mine!
BTC Norlin Racing - Chevrolet Cruze - Chris Stockton??? - owned?/raced previously for BTC
BTC Norlin Racing - Chevrolet Cruze - ???
Ciceley Motorsport - Mercedes A Class - Adam Morgan.
Laser Tools Racing - Mercedes A Class - Aiden Moffat. - Interesting times...Rob Houseman on board!
Team Parker Racing - Ford Focus ST - Alex Martin.
Maximum Motorsport - Ford Focus ST - Stewart Lines.
Handy Motorsport - Toyota Avensis - Rob Austin.
Speedworks Motorsport - Toyota Avensis - Tom Ingram.
Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Gordon Shedden. - alledged new car build?
Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Matt Neal. - alledged new car build?
Simpson Racing/Team Dynamics - Honda Civic Type R - Matt Simpson. - alledged new car build?
Eurotech Racing - Honda Civic Type R - Jeff Smith.
Eurotech Racing - Honda Civic Type R - Martin Depper.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Colin Turkington.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Jason Plato.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - Warren Scott.
BMR Racing - Subaru Levorg - James Cole. - Can't see a lot of change here despite rumours,,,Cole testing say no more.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Andrew Jordan.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Rob Collard??? - Part of the furniture and good in the car.
West Surrey Racing - BMW 125i - Jack Goff??? - Goff posting 'memory' pics on insta..either thanks and farewell..or signed!
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Mat Jackson
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Dan Cammish???
Motorbase Performance - Ford Focus ST - Dan Welch??? - new car build/spare shell built up - and Dans TBL on loan afterall!
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Michael Epps.
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Will Burns.
Team Hard - VW Passat CC - Aron Smith??? - where else? familiar with the car...motorbase return...out of question inho
888 - MG6 - Josh Cook??? - strong 2016, though over shadowed by team mate.
888 - MG6 - Ashley Sutton??? - Excellent rookie year, if a little robust at times,,,888 would be silly not to retain him.
Power Maxed Racing - Vauxhall Astra - Dave Newsham??? - Dave wants to return,,,drove there in 2015 and one off 2016 appearance.
Power Maxed Racing - Vauxhall Astra - Hunter Abbott??? - bit of a guess,,but settled in the team and knows the 2016 TOCA unit.
AmD Tuning - Audi S3 - Ollie Jackson.
AmD Tuning - Audi S3 - - Your guess is as good as mine!
BTC Norlin Racing - Chevrolet Cruze - Chris Stockton??? - owned?/raced previously for BTC
BTC Norlin Racing - Chevrolet Cruze - ???
Ciceley Motorsport - Mercedes A Class - Adam Morgan.
Laser Tools Racing - Mercedes A Class - Aiden Moffat. - Interesting times...Rob Houseman on board!
Team Parker Racing - Ford Focus ST - Alex Martin.
Maximum Motorsport - Ford Focus ST - Stewart Lines.
Handy Motorsport - Toyota Avensis - Rob Austin.
Speedworks Motorsport - Toyota Avensis - Tom Ingram.
Edited by GbGaz on Monday 5th December 23:50
Edited by GbGaz on Monday 5th December 23:57
GbGaz said:
Iva Barchetta said:
Cammish has signed for another year of Porsche cup AND Supercup too, hasn't he ?
According to last week's Motorsport News.
I missed that one then! would LOVE to see him in BTCC though!According to last week's Motorsport News.
At least he's going up against the Supercup guys.
rubystone said:
I've always wondered who've done the best out of their investment. I reckon it's WSR. those cars are (how many?) seasons old and they've run 3 cars consistently with pay drivers for (how many?) seasons. Clever bloke, Dick Bennetts.
All built for the 2013 Season if memory serves me right....just trying to work out in my head which would be the oldest car still running!!GbGaz said:
rubystone said:
I've always wondered who've done the best out of their investment. I reckon it's WSR. those cars are (how many?) seasons old and they've run 3 cars consistently with pay drivers for (how many?) seasons. Clever bloke, Dick Bennetts.
All built for the 2013 Season if memory serves me right....just trying to work out in my head which would be the oldest car still running!!FYI - only two of the BMWs that raced this year date back to 2013, one car that debuted in 2016.
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