Rockingham to close
Discussion
You see, you read a comment and you think I have a bad opinion about Palmer.
He has done a lot of good yes, but he is also not all good, can't you admit that?
He runs his BSB series to mainly benefit his tracks, removes existing and popular UK tracks to add a round at Assen for no real reason other than to make money and prevent a round at Croft, Mallory or Mondello that would get massive crowds.
His team have utterly ruined Brands GP as a spectating venue. And a friend of mine went to a rally at Donington recently that used to use a bit of infield etc before they bought it, now it is basically a track hot lap event, woe betide he has to spend something on repairing some corner cutting by rally cars. oh no that wont do. Just like the rallies at Brands. Though the Oulton event looks good.
His improvements at Cadwell, fair enough. Oulton I know nothing about. And again the work done at Snetterton, is a massive improvement.
But not everything about the man is rosy, he is not the saviour of our tracks, he is in it for one reason alone, to make money. You can applaud that, and I will too sometimes. But not everything about MSV is great.
He has done a lot of good yes, but he is also not all good, can't you admit that?
He runs his BSB series to mainly benefit his tracks, removes existing and popular UK tracks to add a round at Assen for no real reason other than to make money and prevent a round at Croft, Mallory or Mondello that would get massive crowds.
His team have utterly ruined Brands GP as a spectating venue. And a friend of mine went to a rally at Donington recently that used to use a bit of infield etc before they bought it, now it is basically a track hot lap event, woe betide he has to spend something on repairing some corner cutting by rally cars. oh no that wont do. Just like the rallies at Brands. Though the Oulton event looks good.
His improvements at Cadwell, fair enough. Oulton I know nothing about. And again the work done at Snetterton, is a massive improvement.
But not everything about the man is rosy, he is not the saviour of our tracks, he is in it for one reason alone, to make money. You can applaud that, and I will too sometimes. But not everything about MSV is great.
No your right...sort of
My local tracks are oulton and Donington. Palmer has pretty much saved both circuits. They’re profitable, well run, nice facilities, increased safety. Cadwell and Snetterton are the same.
In terms of BSB it’s more successful now that it has ever been. The round at Aassen is brilliant and adds real kudos to the series that places like Croft and Mallory wouldn’t....ad the crowds are big too.
Complete savior? Maybe not. But pretty much everything you mention Palmer has done is a good thing, not bad. (Brands spectating is the exception)
In it to make money? You say that like it’s a bad thing. He’s turned circuits into profitable, sustainable businesses. That can only be a good thing
My local tracks are oulton and Donington. Palmer has pretty much saved both circuits. They’re profitable, well run, nice facilities, increased safety. Cadwell and Snetterton are the same.
In terms of BSB it’s more successful now that it has ever been. The round at Aassen is brilliant and adds real kudos to the series that places like Croft and Mallory wouldn’t....ad the crowds are big too.
Complete savior? Maybe not. But pretty much everything you mention Palmer has done is a good thing, not bad. (Brands spectating is the exception)
In it to make money? You say that like it’s a bad thing. He’s turned circuits into profitable, sustainable businesses. That can only be a good thing
I visited Brands for first time since 80s a few weeks ago. Far from ruined. much of it same as ever and loved it . If you want to see ruination try Donington - at least efforts are being made to get it back on track after the silly F1 adventure but compared to its 80s and 90s heyday I could weep ....
Taking BSB away from Croft, Mondello and Mallory is nothing but bad. I don't care of the series is a success, I want UK fans to get all the rounds after all, the clue is in the title. BRITISH superbikes, not Dutch.
We have tens of irish riders racing in the UK and they don't have a home round, why? Coz Mondello is a bit bumpy and maybe a bit unsafe, I give you Cadwell Park. End sentence.
Nowhere in the North East, hey what about Croft, always got massive crowds? Maybe a bit basic. And Mallory, always got massive crowds, a bit basic, who cares.
The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Most of what the man does is fine, and I am sure where it not for him some tracks would have been lost. But I just can't help disliking his smarmy manner sorry!
We have tens of irish riders racing in the UK and they don't have a home round, why? Coz Mondello is a bit bumpy and maybe a bit unsafe, I give you Cadwell Park. End sentence.
Nowhere in the North East, hey what about Croft, always got massive crowds? Maybe a bit basic. And Mallory, always got massive crowds, a bit basic, who cares.
The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Most of what the man does is fine, and I am sure where it not for him some tracks would have been lost. But I just can't help disliking his smarmy manner sorry!
chunder27 said:
Taking BSB away from Croft, Mondello and Mallory is nothing but bad. I don't care of the series is a success, I want UK fans to get all the rounds after all, the clue is in the title. BRITISH superbikes, not Dutch.
The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Rubbish. The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Firstly Assen is a great circuit, adds value to the series and gives fans a great away venue to go to....plenty of British series race abroad...British gt for example
Secondly if you want UK fans to get all the rounds....after all it’s BRITISH....then you wouldn’t want the series to go to MONDELLO.....it’s not IN BRITAIN.....so your argument falls flat on its face.
Yes I like Mallory but it has limited space and facilities which introduces its own issues, I agree that the early 2000s were a great time for BSB, but look at the quality of riders and teams over the last few years and more could jump onto the world stage now than ever. Keeps its head above the parapet? That’s a bloody high parapet!
chunder27 said:
Taking BSB away from Croft, Mondello and Mallory is nothing but bad. I don't care of the series is a success, I want UK fans to get all the rounds after all, the clue is in the title. BRITISH superbikes, not Dutch.
We have tens of irish riders racing in the UK and they don't have a home round, why? Coz Mondello is a bit bumpy and maybe a bit unsafe, I give you Cadwell Park. End sentence.
Nowhere in the North East, hey what about Croft, always got massive crowds? Maybe a bit basic. And Mallory, always got massive crowds, a bit basic, who cares.
The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Most of what the man does is fine, and I am sure where it not for him some tracks would have been lost. But I just can't help disliking his smarmy manner sorry!
So being well educated,sucessful is a smarmy manner? Quit while you can,you are showing a very jealous attitude.We have tens of irish riders racing in the UK and they don't have a home round, why? Coz Mondello is a bit bumpy and maybe a bit unsafe, I give you Cadwell Park. End sentence.
Nowhere in the North East, hey what about Croft, always got massive crowds? Maybe a bit basic. And Mallory, always got massive crowds, a bit basic, who cares.
The series certainly is not as good as it was in the mid 00's. but it has been well run, is promoted well and keeps its head above the parapet.
Most of what the man does is fine, and I am sure where it not for him some tracks would have been lost. But I just can't help disliking his smarmy manner sorry!
Edited by vjay48 on Sunday 2nd September 14:48
Oh you silly little man.
Mondello is part of Ireland, which in most peoples eyes is part of Great Britain or the islands that make it up. Just like the Isle of Man or Guernsey. You know what mean and are being boringly pedantic
Assen is not in Britain, any other argument falls flat, sorry.
I am jealous of the mans money, not jealous of the way he paid for his sons failed racing career no doubt using money gained from MSV and not at all jealous.
I am in no position to be jealous, its a stupid point to make. If I was a fellow circuit owner maybe.
Mondello is part of Ireland, which in most peoples eyes is part of Great Britain or the islands that make it up. Just like the Isle of Man or Guernsey. You know what mean and are being boringly pedantic
Assen is not in Britain, any other argument falls flat, sorry.
I am jealous of the mans money, not jealous of the way he paid for his sons failed racing career no doubt using money gained from MSV and not at all jealous.
I am in no position to be jealous, its a stupid point to make. If I was a fellow circuit owner maybe.
chunder27 said:
Mondello is part of Ireland, which in most peoples eyes is part of Great Britain or the islands that make it up. Just like the Isle of Man or Guernsey. You know what mean and are being boringly pedantic
No, in your eyes Ireland is part of Great Britain. In anyone’s eyes who has a simple grasp of geography Ireland is no more a part of Great Britain than Germany. In fact if you want an overseas race then the Falklands Grand Prix would be more suited to a British Championship. Or any of the other countries on the link provided. I’m perfectly happy to have foreign races in a British championship. Many series around the world do it. We had ALMS and champ car in the uk, v8 supercars in Bahrain, British gt at Spa and f3 at Zandvoort and the DTM in the UK amongst others
Now just accept you’re talking utter rubbish and can’t accept that Assen is a better choice than Croft on every conceivable level for both fans, teams, sponsors, tv audiences and riders
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_of...
Edited by 37chevy on Sunday 2nd September 20:09
chunder27 said:
Oh you silly little man.
Mondello is part of Ireland, which in most peoples eyes is part of Great Britain or the islands that make it up. Just like the Isle of Man or Guernsey. You know what mean and are being boringly pedantic
Neither Isle of Man nor Guernsey is in Great Britain . They are both Crown Dependencies. Mondello is in Eire. for Chrissake, and has been since partition in 1922 .Even if it were in Northern Ireland , it would not be in GB but form part of the UK . Mondello is part of Ireland, which in most peoples eyes is part of Great Britain or the islands that make it up. Just like the Isle of Man or Guernsey. You know what mean and are being boringly pedantic
coppice said:
Neither Isle of Man nor Guernsey is in Great Britain . They are both Crown Dependencies. Mondello is in Eire. for Chrissake, and has been since partition in 1922 .Even if it were in Northern Ireland , it would not be in GB but form part of the UK .
Indeed.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_B...
With the handy labelling of legal vs geo
Does it really matter you pedantic little men? You are missing the point to attack a minor error from one poster, as is often the case on forums like this.
The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
BTCC dropped a round at say Croft and goes to Zandvoort, would you be happy?
Rockingham hosted BSB but it was too unsafe, it hosted F3 but was too unsafe.
I don't think Croft, Mallory, Mondello are unsafe for bikes, they might not be pretty, ave amazing facilities. But they are at least British (roll with it FFS)
The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
BTCC dropped a round at say Croft and goes to Zandvoort, would you be happy?
Rockingham hosted BSB but it was too unsafe, it hosted F3 but was too unsafe.
I don't think Croft, Mallory, Mondello are unsafe for bikes, they might not be pretty, ave amazing facilities. But they are at least British (roll with it FFS)
chunder27 said:
Does it really matter you pedantic little men? You are missing the point to attack a minor error from one poster, as is often the case on forums like this.
The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
BTCC dropped a round at say Croft and goes to Zandvoort, would you be happy?
Rockingham hosted BSB but it was too unsafe, it hosted F3 but was too unsafe.
I don't think Croft, Mallory, Mondello are unsafe for bikes, they might not be pretty, ave amazing facilities. But they are at least British (roll with it FFS)
I agree you are completely missing the point (or choosing to ignore it!)The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
BTCC dropped a round at say Croft and goes to Zandvoort, would you be happy?
Rockingham hosted BSB but it was too unsafe, it hosted F3 but was too unsafe.
I don't think Croft, Mallory, Mondello are unsafe for bikes, they might not be pretty, ave amazing facilities. But they are at least British (roll with it FFS)
So for clarity!
British GT - Spa
British F3 - Spa
British Superbikes - Assen
Deusch Touring Cars - Brands Hatch
Australian Supercars - Bahrain
American Le Mans Series - Silverstone
NASCAR - Japan
The fact that the BTCC hasn't explored a race abroad is surprising since it seems its the only major national championship in the UK not to do so!. personally think it would be great to have a touring car festival at Spa or Hockenheim along with WTCR
So again. Assen is a great venue, one of the best superbike tracks in the world...and you'd rather have a rainy croft or mallory in the middle of September to replace it....just because its in Britain..yeh right
PS Mondello still isn't British
chunder27 said:
Does it really matter you pedantic little men? You are missing the point to attack a minor error from one poster, as is often the case on forums like this.
The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
Actually I wasn't having a pop. The whole British Isles vs UK, etc is very poorly understood and I would guess 9/10 people would not be able to distinguish and precise. It was certainly never taught at my school (or I ignored it)The point is being missed to make less of a point about one poster!
And Mondello is not British.
chunder27 said:
Does it really matter you pedantic little men? You are missing the point to attack a minor error from one poster, as is often the case on forums like this.
No need to be rude ... .I'd suggest that pedantry would be the least of your worries if you suggested ,in some circles , that Mondello was in Gt Britain. I believe the owners of Croft (BARC) felt that problems they at the circuit meant that they were not able to support BSB,under there ownership of Mallory the circuit almost closed,theme here? We race at MSV circuits,race with their organisation,i know which I prefer.I base my view on actual experience,not vague ramblings on social media.
Whilst I agree that some tracks once used are perhaps not that suitable for BSB anymore.
My point was that Rockingham at least was suitable for some series.
And that a major series in the UK now races at Assen for the British championship
Some of the series mentioned that race elsewhere do not attract 30000 plus crowds, BSB does, and does NOT visit certain areas of the country anymore due to Palmer having a high percentage of the rounds of HIS series on HIS tracks.
If you thinks thats fair, bully for you.#I simply think it isn't
My point was that Rockingham at least was suitable for some series.
And that a major series in the UK now races at Assen for the British championship
Some of the series mentioned that race elsewhere do not attract 30000 plus crowds, BSB does, and does NOT visit certain areas of the country anymore due to Palmer having a high percentage of the rounds of HIS series on HIS tracks.
If you thinks thats fair, bully for you.#I simply think it isn't
chunder27 said:
Whilst I agree that some tracks once used are perhaps not that suitable for BSB anymore.
My point was that Rockingham at least was suitable for some series.
And that a major series in the UK now races at Assen for the British championship
Some of the series mentioned that race elsewhere do not attract 30000 plus crowds, BSB does, and does NOT visit certain areas of the country anymore due to Palmer having a high percentage of the rounds of HIS series on HIS tracks.
If you thinks thats fair, bully for you.#I simply think it isn't
It’s nothing to do with whether I think it’s fair or not, it’s what’s best for the series. BSB at Assen gets over 30000 spectators so is a great asset for the series. My point was that Rockingham at least was suitable for some series.
And that a major series in the UK now races at Assen for the British championship
Some of the series mentioned that race elsewhere do not attract 30000 plus crowds, BSB does, and does NOT visit certain areas of the country anymore due to Palmer having a high percentage of the rounds of HIS series on HIS tracks.
If you thinks thats fair, bully for you.#I simply think it isn't
Of course Palmer has a high percentage of rounds at his circuits....MSV own a high percentage of tracks in the country and MSVR run the series....it’s not rocket science.
You say some of the series mentioned don’t have 30000 plus crowds....but most of them do.
Once again your argument is falling flat on its face.
You still haven’t given a convincing argument to why BSB or other British championships shouldn’t have a race abroad and why they should use Mallory, Croft or Mondello over MSVR tracks
And you are totally missing the point.
Assen is in the Netherlands, not Britain? How easy is that to understand the name is British Superbikes, I want all rounds to be in Britain, not one in Holland. It's that simple.
I doubt British GT at Spa gets 30,000 travelling fans mate, I seriously doubt they get even 10000, and if they do most will not be travelling or be with a team.
I have been to the odd sort of next level down from BTCC meeting and you can almost count the spectators at some of them.
I think your perceptions of some things might be a little biased maybe, or optimistic at best.
Assen is in the Netherlands, not Britain? How easy is that to understand the name is British Superbikes, I want all rounds to be in Britain, not one in Holland. It's that simple.
I doubt British GT at Spa gets 30,000 travelling fans mate, I seriously doubt they get even 10000, and if they do most will not be travelling or be with a team.
I have been to the odd sort of next level down from BTCC meeting and you can almost count the spectators at some of them.
I think your perceptions of some things might be a little biased maybe, or optimistic at best.
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