RE: Ferrari: we don't know what's wrong
Discussion
Li'l Pugs said:
the team's close relationship with Bridgestone meant that there were few other comparison points
Their own fault if you ask me, but at least they're owning up to something for once.
Absolutely. They refused to share any data with the other Bridgestone teams, who all decided to tell them to sod off and went to Michelin. Now they've got no one to help develop the tyres and they're losing. I'll not be crying into my cornflakes, they made their bed, let them lie in it.
becuase at the moment F1 appears to be moving towards becoming a one-tyre formula and people seem to think that bridgestone would be the suppliers if this were the case (michelin have stated they are only insterested in supplying tyres in a competitive environment). If bridgestone were the tyre suppliers then any team already using them would have quite an advantage over those who have to adapt themselves and their cars to the new tyres.
summit7 said:
I have to agree with everyone about the Damon incident. MS should have had the book thrown at him docked 10 points and lost the championship that year but as per normal F1 supremo's did what they wanted instead of applying the rules. It still makes me mad now, should read D. Hill double world champion! I have to say though MS is tremendous when things are going his way BUT has never coped when another driver is at him eg, Hill and Hakkinen, MS always seems to make a mistake when under real serious driver pressure. As for Ferrari I'm just enjoying better racing without them blitzing everything, still think MotoGP is better to watch.
Haven't read the rest of the thread, as I got to this point, and felt I had to comment. Damon Hill NEVER got the credit he deserved for his F1 performances. Under the shadow of MS, he lingered being accused of being a second rate driver in a good car. He was the only guy for years that put MS under any pressure. Remember his performance in the Arrows? Not seen fighting spirit like that since mansell! It was the last great rivallry, and yet, the name Damon Hill is never spoken with any reverence. For me, he was one of the best drivers I have seen in my 29 years as an F1 fan. The others being Alesi and Johnny 'The Imp' herbert! Mr Michael Schumacher has taken over the limelight for far too many good drivers.
Damon Hill... A star in my eyes, and one of the best in his generation, in my opinion!
andy mac said:
The others being Alesi and Johnny 'The Imp' herbert! Mr Michael Schumacher has taken over the limelight for far too many good drivers.
MS has always had the team built around him - often to the detriment of racing and certainly to the detriment of his team mate.
IIRC Johnny Herbet was frozen out of Bennaton when he was quicker than MS - a result of them only being interested in the driver's championship.
Still remember Alesi in the wet driving the Ferrari and passing just about everybody. I think if he had the car he could well have been champion - but for Prost and Senna. Putting them in the same team may have been stressful for them but it produced some of the best racing seen.
MS's winnings have always been suspicious, under Benneton or Ferrari. He has never been caught but if you look at the farce where he bumped off Hill and the entire FIA took MS's side, you know they don't want him to be caught.
Why is this? Well, if you were Bernie, and your F1 circus was being overtaken in worldwide populatity by BPR GT racing and, above all, DTM racing, what would you do to take the wind out of their sails and turn those core fans back to F1? Make a German the next F1 king, that's what.
And as long as it's working..
So, we've had UK, South America, and mainland Europe.
My guess is the next big F1 star will be either Indian, Chinese or Russian.
As for Ferrari, they probably just lost the will to win (Todt, Braun and MS looking to retire soon) and they gave themselves a footshot with Bridgestone.
Why is this? Well, if you were Bernie, and your F1 circus was being overtaken in worldwide populatity by BPR GT racing and, above all, DTM racing, what would you do to take the wind out of their sails and turn those core fans back to F1? Make a German the next F1 king, that's what.
And as long as it's working..
So, we've had UK, South America, and mainland Europe.
My guess is the next big F1 star will be either Indian, Chinese or Russian.
As for Ferrari, they probably just lost the will to win (Todt, Braun and MS looking to retire soon) and they gave themselves a footshot with Bridgestone.
hm another year of schumy dominating would have had dire results for F1 so good tfor then they dont know.... but hey 7 championshipmdown the line o¡and they dony know "bollox" i say a budget os around 300m milloins and they dont know then why have they not ben sackd come on F1 aint politiocs you dont get promoted for a faliure...well at least not yet anyway.
signed fan I just want to se racing thatas all
signed fan I just want to se racing thatas all
I just think the competition has caught and passed Ferrari, it's as simple as that. There's no way that Ferrari (or any other team) would deliberately drop off performance due to the FIA.
In the past the FIA changed the rules to help Ferrari to the detriment of Lotus and Williams (I'm thinking of active suspension). But there don't appear to be any rule changes to deliberately hinder them, with the possible exception of the single tyre, which would have been OK but for them muscling out all the other Bridgestone teams.
In the past the FIA changed the rules to help Ferrari to the detriment of Lotus and Williams (I'm thinking of active suspension). But there don't appear to be any rule changes to deliberately hinder them, with the possible exception of the single tyre, which would have been OK but for them muscling out all the other Bridgestone teams.
adrianr said:More difficult than you might imagine. The tyres remain the property of the tyremakers, who keep track of every single carcase, even the ones that are torn to shreds.
I suggest they buy a set of part worn Michelins off whichever B team they're supplying engines too, carefully write 'Bridgestone' on the side in case any journo snappers are watching, pop 'em on the car and give it a quick spin round the test track.
AdrianR
On the other hand, anyone can go out on a circuit after a race and collect thousands of chunks of tyre rubber that have been thrown off.
The Ferrari team manager Jean Todt succeeded in every team he managed. When he was hired by Ferrari, there was no doubt in my mind that Ferrari would become world champion again. Todt has always retired when his goals were achieved, to search for a higher objective. After his success with Ferrari, he could have retired, write a book and travel the world giving speeches on the subject " How to build a winning team and keep it at the top " Surprisingly, this is not what he did. He accepted wider responsabilities at Ferrari, and married a malaysian actress, ex Bond girl, Michelle Yeoh. Todt is now facing problems that are much more critical to him than the F1 team. Every man has his limits, and it is no surprise that Ferrari is now in trouble. But who cares after all. Thank you Jean for reminding us that love is life, and F1 is only a game...
Seveneer said:
Todt is now facing problems that are much more critical to him than the F1 team.
Can you elaborate? I think I'm correct in saying that he is now Ferrari MD so are his issues related to the FIAT ownership of Ferrari rather than anything connected with the race team? If so, what are those issues? The divestment of Maserati can only be beneficial to Ferrari and the 430 has been well received.
Seveneer said:
and married a malaysian actress, ex Bond girl, Michelle Yeoh.
I don't suppose it's his sense of dress that she found irresistable - or are cardigans fashionable in Italy now
And he did seem to find time during yesterdays F1 to engineer MS in front of Rubens with an extra pit stop for a "puncture".
7.
jamiet said:Red Bull next year will be running FIArrari engines, so they would be required to do donkey work for the Italians as part of the deal. You may recall that for years this was Sauber's role.
Why would Toyota and Red Bull want to use Bridgestone when they are obviously second best to Michelin at present? Especially after these comments by Ferrari.
It was a surprise that Toyota did not run on Bridgestones from the start, given the corporate affinities. Reportedly at the Board level T. and B. are working on a comprehensive deal under which all Toyota road cars would leave the factory with Bridgestones as original equipment. If that were to happen, race tyres would be a small part of it.
Seveneer said:
September 2005 - The Ferrari team manager Jean Todt succeeded in every team he managed. When he was hired by Ferrari, there was no doubt in my mind that Ferrari would become world champion again. Todt has always retired when his goals were achieved, to search for a higher objective. After his success with Ferrari, he could have retired, write a book and travel the world giving speeches on the subject " How to build a winning team and keep it at the top " Surprisingly, this is not what he did. He accepted wider responsabilities at Ferrari, and married a malaysian actress, ex Bond girl, Michelle Yeoh. Todt is now facing problems that are much more critical to him than the F1 team. Every man has his limits, and it is no surprise that Ferrari is now in trouble. But who cares after all. Thank you Jean for reminding us that love is life, and F1 is only a game...
September 2006 - Ferrari is back in the front row, and we don't see Michelle on the tracks anymore.
seveneer said:
Seveneer said:
September 2005 - The Ferrari team manager Jean Todt succeeded in every team he managed. When he was hired by Ferrari, there was no doubt in my mind that Ferrari would become world champion again. Todt has always retired when his goals were achieved, to search for a higher objective. After his success with Ferrari, he could have retired, write a book and travel the world giving speeches on the subject " How to build a winning team and keep it at the top " Surprisingly, this is not what he did. He accepted wider responsabilities at Ferrari, and married a malaysian actress, ex Bond girl, Michelle Yeoh. Todt is now facing problems that are much more critical to him than the F1 team. Every man has his limits, and it is no surprise that Ferrari is now in trouble. But who cares after all. Thank you Jean for reminding us that love is life, and F1 is only a game...
September 2006 - Ferrari is back in the front row, and we don't see Michelle on the tracks anymore.
Wasn't that michelle stood next to JT at Bahrain? or has he got another half his age floozy?
Mr_Thyroid said:
Quick diversion:
1) Name the track
2) What's Hill doing there???
(I know the answer to the first but not the second!)
1) Name the track
2) What's Hill doing there???
(I know the answer to the first but not the second!)
It looks like the '96 car so I presume it's Suzuka and Damon celebrating his world championship.[/quote]
Nope. I'm pretty certain that's Brands Hatch.
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