Road Rallying on a budget!
Discussion
velocemitch said:
On historics we get penalised for arriving early at controls (even waiting outside), as well as obviously arriving late, this doesn't seem to be the case on modern events, or am I missing something??. I'm still a bit puzzled how we dropped time on some sections of a recent 12 car, when our clock said we didn't, some minutes are shorter than others it seems!
Did a 12 car t'other night. We did 47 miles in 1h 5 mins and were 22 mins late!
But we'll keep this to ourselves, of course.
The timing system can differ from event to event, with some events having 20mph regularities where you are penalised if the people manning the control see you before your due time. This can
Some events say that you may enter the control up to 59 seconds before the minute that you want (ie: you want 22:59 you can enter any time from 22:58.01 to 22:59.59 without penalty.
Others may say that you must wait outside the control until the clock clicks over to 22:59 before entering
It's horses for courses, but one of the most annoying things if the event regs don't make it clear to both competitors AND marshals - I once lost a class win over a penalty got for being marked as entering a control early, even though we'd been told we could enter on the previous minute - grrr.
Historic stuff tends to be even stricter on timing as well
Some events say that you may enter the control up to 59 seconds before the minute that you want (ie: you want 22:59 you can enter any time from 22:58.01 to 22:59.59 without penalty.
Others may say that you must wait outside the control until the clock clicks over to 22:59 before entering
It's horses for courses, but one of the most annoying things if the event regs don't make it clear to both competitors AND marshals - I once lost a class win over a penalty got for being marked as entering a control early, even though we'd been told we could enter on the previous minute - grrr.
Historic stuff tends to be even stricter on timing as well
Yup I get the impression they make it up as they go along, but only the guys who have done them before and know the organisors realise what they are up to, Half the Marshals don't anyway.
Night historics are more strickt on the timing, but in my limited experiance seem to have different length miles to the rest of the world.
Daylight Historic regularity seems to be done by the book though but speeds are kept down, unless you cock it all up and have to catch up again.
Night historics are more strickt on the timing, but in my limited experiance seem to have different length miles to the rest of the world.
Daylight Historic regularity seems to be done by the book though but speeds are kept down, unless you cock it all up and have to catch up again.
k50 del said:
I'm out tonight for the first time in a while, hope I've not gone too rusty!!
It's a 3 map event as well, I hate 3 map events. Juggling 2 is bad enough but 172, 173 and 183 don't even have any overlap - tough night coming up I think.
It's a 3 map event as well, I hate 3 map events. Juggling 2 is bad enough but 172, 173 and 183 don't even have any overlap - tough night coming up I think.
Edited by k50 del on Friday 15th December 15:12
Have you hand drawn the roads into the overlap? ie you create your own overlap. Doesn't take too long to do (he says
) Good luck anyway!
heebeegeetee said:
k50 del said:
I'm out tonight for the first time in a while, hope I've not gone too rusty!!
It's a 3 map event as well, I hate 3 map events. Juggling 2 is bad enough but 172, 173 and 183 don't even have any overlap - tough night coming up I think.
It's a 3 map event as well, I hate 3 map events. Juggling 2 is bad enough but 172, 173 and 183 don't even have any overlap - tough night coming up I think.
Edited by k50 del on Friday 15th December 15:12
Have you hand drawn the roads into the overlap? ie you create your own overlap. Doesn't take too long to do (he says
) Good luck anyway!
Yep, always try to draw every road up to its first junction (i suppose I have a slight advantage tonight in that those are my home maps, so I know bits of them quite well.)
Preparation is the key to success as they say.
Yes road rallying is the best fun you will have had for years, if you chose the right events. Head for Wales - it's worth the long journey!
Back onto the cars, Nova ok but GTE is best if you can find a non-Kevved version. Mk3 Astra also ok - both are bullet proof. 205 GTi good, 309GTi possibly better if you can find one. 205 non-GTi no good (inferior handling, poor brakes). Rover 200 ok but beware head gaskets and you'll need much harder suspension than standard. 400 much better than you'd expect and cheap. ZS springs probably ok. XR2 ok but you'll have trouble finding non-Kevved / non-rusty. 1600 Skoda Felicia worth considering / 1300 not.
Would be nice to have a historic and enduro compatible car, but both formulas are expensive. So ignore for now and stick to Road Rallies - and ones in regional championships are generally a safe bet.
Power and ultimate handling aren't utmost importance for road rallying. Important things are:
good navigator, and driver / navigator that have a flexible attitude, respect each others' roles and don't have a short temper. A driver that is willing to stop and wait for a lost navigator is a big benefit, as is a driver that doesn't slow down when tired or get too easily drawn into chasing other cars. And the navigator needs to have faith that the driver knows what he's doing.
To be continued...
Back onto the cars, Nova ok but GTE is best if you can find a non-Kevved version. Mk3 Astra also ok - both are bullet proof. 205 GTi good, 309GTi possibly better if you can find one. 205 non-GTi no good (inferior handling, poor brakes). Rover 200 ok but beware head gaskets and you'll need much harder suspension than standard. 400 much better than you'd expect and cheap. ZS springs probably ok. XR2 ok but you'll have trouble finding non-Kevved / non-rusty. 1600 Skoda Felicia worth considering / 1300 not.
Would be nice to have a historic and enduro compatible car, but both formulas are expensive. So ignore for now and stick to Road Rallies - and ones in regional championships are generally a safe bet.
Power and ultimate handling aren't utmost importance for road rallying. Important things are:
good navigator, and driver / navigator that have a flexible attitude, respect each others' roles and don't have a short temper. A driver that is willing to stop and wait for a lost navigator is a big benefit, as is a driver that doesn't slow down when tired or get too easily drawn into chasing other cars. And the navigator needs to have faith that the driver knows what he's doing.
To be continued...
...here.
Good lights inside the car are useful, as are spotlights and reversing light if allowed.
Good engine waterproofing (& WD40) and strong sump and exhaust guards are essential.
Grip is important - good quality normal road tyres are good, but are useless on mud. 1/2 worn good quality forest tyres are a fairly good compromise on all surfaces, but wear out faster than you'll be used to. For all tyres, avoid low profiles as they damage easily, and use steel rims if you can as you can often straighten them once dented.
RELIABILITY is also very important... Nothing will pi## the crew off faster than a car that needs fettling every few miles. Best off is a car that's as unmodified as possible - a car manufacturer can normally make a car last better than you can (I work for one, we test to destruction and more). Add-on wiring chafing through or rattling loose is normal cause of breakdowns.
Most of all attitude is important. Undeniably, road rallying is hard (for both crew members) - you will get lost and very late, and don't be put off when things start going wrong. Often you'll find that many more crews have done worse than you have, no matter how badly you think you've fared. You don't need to go flat out all the time, just keep going...
Good lights inside the car are useful, as are spotlights and reversing light if allowed.
Good engine waterproofing (& WD40) and strong sump and exhaust guards are essential.
Grip is important - good quality normal road tyres are good, but are useless on mud. 1/2 worn good quality forest tyres are a fairly good compromise on all surfaces, but wear out faster than you'll be used to. For all tyres, avoid low profiles as they damage easily, and use steel rims if you can as you can often straighten them once dented.
RELIABILITY is also very important... Nothing will pi## the crew off faster than a car that needs fettling every few miles. Best off is a car that's as unmodified as possible - a car manufacturer can normally make a car last better than you can (I work for one, we test to destruction and more). Add-on wiring chafing through or rattling loose is normal cause of breakdowns.
Most of all attitude is important. Undeniably, road rallying is hard (for both crew members) - you will get lost and very late, and don't be put off when things start going wrong. Often you'll find that many more crews have done worse than you have, no matter how badly you think you've fared. You don't need to go flat out all the time, just keep going...
robg2 said:
Some very accurate observations
Not much more to add to that really - follow Rob's advice and you won't go wrong.
might be worth trying a shorter event first before you spend out loads of money on something you may hate.
edited to add - on a slightly less attractive note, you may find that an immodium tablet before you start the event will save having to lose time visiting a hedge on the way round
Edited by k50 del on Thursday 21st December 11:54
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