Discussion
It wouldn't have come close.
There were some really wild cars out there in the those days.
The closest to a modern incarnation of Baby Bertha (being a Vauxhall of similar size with a V8)is here....
www.teamdangerous.com
I should know.
Rob.
There were some really wild cars out there in the those days.
The closest to a modern incarnation of Baby Bertha (being a Vauxhall of similar size with a V8)is here....
www.teamdangerous.com
I should know.
Rob.
Great video Francis. Trying to be as unbiased as possible and agreeing with Rob I don't think Nick Whiting's Escort would've beaten Baby Bertha and even so he would not have beaten Dad. I'll try and back this up with facts rather than the family link, so here goes!!
A - Dad had the beating of Nick in every car previously (IMHO and if you check records this is in inferior and superior cars);
B - The escort had a claimed 450bhp and spaceframe chassis, Baby Bertha had a claimed 500bhp and spaceframe chassis. Dad always said the engine was more like 440/450bhp but lets say the Escort actually had 400bhp rather than the claimed 450bhp, so BB should've had more power and a better driver (IMO), just not too sure about weight.
C - I'm not a Ford expert (other than mid 90s to mid 00s as I worked for Ford, but that's a story for another day)) but I reckon this video must have been 1976ish? See next point.
D - As of the middle to end of 1976 DTV had already decided that Baby Bertha was to be retired and work on a new car started, Mega Bertha. Yes, this was before DTV decided to go rallying and I have a letter from Billy B to Dad, dated the 23rd December 1976 stating "This is to confirm that we shall be very happy to run Baby Bertha alongside a Super Saloon Cavalier next year". Now I read this as pretty much the same deal as Old Nail running alongside Baby Bertha, old car backing up new car.
As we all now know DTV took the decision in early 1977 that racing was done, nothing left to prove and rallying the Chevette HS/HSR was the way forwards, therefore Mega was built up but never actually completed. She was supposed to have had a 7 litre V8 and I’m sure she would have been lighter (definitely sleeker/more aerodynamic than Baby) and therefore a lot quick than Baby Bertha and would definitely have beaten any new thing from anyone else.
Anyway, that's my opinion and hopefully I've justified it!!
A - Dad had the beating of Nick in every car previously (IMHO and if you check records this is in inferior and superior cars);
B - The escort had a claimed 450bhp and spaceframe chassis, Baby Bertha had a claimed 500bhp and spaceframe chassis. Dad always said the engine was more like 440/450bhp but lets say the Escort actually had 400bhp rather than the claimed 450bhp, so BB should've had more power and a better driver (IMO), just not too sure about weight.
C - I'm not a Ford expert (other than mid 90s to mid 00s as I worked for Ford, but that's a story for another day)) but I reckon this video must have been 1976ish? See next point.
D - As of the middle to end of 1976 DTV had already decided that Baby Bertha was to be retired and work on a new car started, Mega Bertha. Yes, this was before DTV decided to go rallying and I have a letter from Billy B to Dad, dated the 23rd December 1976 stating "This is to confirm that we shall be very happy to run Baby Bertha alongside a Super Saloon Cavalier next year". Now I read this as pretty much the same deal as Old Nail running alongside Baby Bertha, old car backing up new car.
As we all now know DTV took the decision in early 1977 that racing was done, nothing left to prove and rallying the Chevette HS/HSR was the way forwards, therefore Mega was built up but never actually completed. She was supposed to have had a 7 litre V8 and I’m sure she would have been lighter (definitely sleeker/more aerodynamic than Baby) and therefore a lot quick than Baby Bertha and would definitely have beaten any new thing from anyone else.
Anyway, that's my opinion and hopefully I've justified it!!
Gregor Marshall said:
...therefore Mega was built up but never actually completed. She was supposed to have had a 7 litre V8 and I’m sure she would have been lighter (definitely sleeker/more aerodynamic than Baby) and therefore a lot quick than Baby Bertha and would definitely have beaten any new thing from anyone else.
This is interesting, Gregor. I've never heard of Mega Bertha before. Does it still exist? Any pics at all?
Trackside said:
Gregor Marshall said:
...therefore Mega was built up but never actually completed. She was supposed to have had a 7 litre V8 and I’m sure she would have been lighter (definitely sleeker/more aerodynamic than Baby) and therefore a lot quick than Baby Bertha and would definitely have beaten any new thing from anyone else.
This is interesting, Gregor. I've never heard of Mega Bertha before. Does it still exist? Any pics at all?
^ Wot he said ^ Gregor, I'd like to take up that offer of meeting up some time.
Gary & Phil, I'm sorry, I thought you knew this, as it was quite widely marketed and advertised and it is in Only Here for the Beer and you've now made me check and I actually made a small mistake above, oops!!
It was decided Baby Bertha was past her usefulness and it was discussed, a Chevette or a Cavalier? I think the Cavalier was decided upon due to the importance of the car (like the Ventora and Firenza at the time, the main car and money winner for the badge) and also the size of it and what you could fit in it. A car was built up and presented to the Vauxhall board in February 1977. The engine choice and whether DTV would concentrate on the racing/rallying was to be decided upon.
There were two choices of engine, a 2.5 turbocharged or an 8.1 litre V8. the 2.5 was the Vauxhall choice but Dad had been to GM in the USA in '74 and made very good friends with William Mitchell (Dad drove the Marko Shark out there, the concept for the original Corvette Stingray and was supposed to drove a GM spaceframe Corvette, but these are stories and pictures for another day!!) who was Vice President of GM Worldwide and was happy to supply the 8.1 Reynold-Cherolvet engine, which were famous for their then monopoly of the SCCA Can-Am racing in the proper orange McLarens (M8s??). It only produced a conservative 700bhp (sorry, did the V6 Escort produce 450bhp? I think I've justified my above argument!!).
anyway, the Vauxhall board and Billy B decided that they had nothing left to prove in Group 1 (BTCC) with the Magnum and Baby Bertha had destroyed everyone (other than one or two illegal cars) in the Super Saloons, so what was the point in building something even better and start getting the wrath of the press for no reason, it would be bad for Vauxhall's image.
DTV and Vauxhall they decided to concentrate on rallying for 1977 and Dad was left pretty much kicking his heals for 1977 (which would probably explain my birth 8 years after my youngest sister, he had nothing better to do Valentines day '77 so I was produced November '77!!) due to his Vauxhall only contract (his own fault for winning the Escort Mexico championship from Jody Scheckter in 1971 and finishing second by seven seconds to Roger Clark on the Avon tour in 1974; Vauxhall never let him do anything non-GM without their blessing, which included missing Le Mans with BMW twice, one of Dad's biggest regrets) other than the Spa 24 hours result, which even to this day is known as Vauxhall's best ever international race/result and that's even with Peter Brock handicapping Dad (again a story for another day!!).
Anyway, I have some great pictures of the car and it does look fantastic, completely different to Baby Bertha. If you can remember how Big Bertha looked like a very well honed Ventora, then that is what Mega Bertha looked like, a very well honed Cavalier, whereas Old Nail and Baby Bertha looked like Frienzas on different types of steroids!! Basically Mega was a Cavalier widen by a foot
As to the cars existence that is another story. It does still exist, but it's very hard to say how much, as the car was never finished. I have tried contacting the current owner and he's not interested in listening to what I (with Dad's archive) have to say and I am happy to authenticate what it is, as the pictures and information I have seen (that he once sent to Dad) are correct and extremely interesting and I would love to see the car going; can you imagine the noise of an 8.1 Chevy??
If someone can PM how to post pictures on Photo Bucket I've got some great ones of BB and MB.
P.S. Gary and Phil you're more than welcome to see the pictures some time, my race car is now in Eddlesborough, so even closer to MK, just PM me some time.
It was decided Baby Bertha was past her usefulness and it was discussed, a Chevette or a Cavalier? I think the Cavalier was decided upon due to the importance of the car (like the Ventora and Firenza at the time, the main car and money winner for the badge) and also the size of it and what you could fit in it. A car was built up and presented to the Vauxhall board in February 1977. The engine choice and whether DTV would concentrate on the racing/rallying was to be decided upon.
There were two choices of engine, a 2.5 turbocharged or an 8.1 litre V8. the 2.5 was the Vauxhall choice but Dad had been to GM in the USA in '74 and made very good friends with William Mitchell (Dad drove the Marko Shark out there, the concept for the original Corvette Stingray and was supposed to drove a GM spaceframe Corvette, but these are stories and pictures for another day!!) who was Vice President of GM Worldwide and was happy to supply the 8.1 Reynold-Cherolvet engine, which were famous for their then monopoly of the SCCA Can-Am racing in the proper orange McLarens (M8s??). It only produced a conservative 700bhp (sorry, did the V6 Escort produce 450bhp? I think I've justified my above argument!!).
anyway, the Vauxhall board and Billy B decided that they had nothing left to prove in Group 1 (BTCC) with the Magnum and Baby Bertha had destroyed everyone (other than one or two illegal cars) in the Super Saloons, so what was the point in building something even better and start getting the wrath of the press for no reason, it would be bad for Vauxhall's image.
DTV and Vauxhall they decided to concentrate on rallying for 1977 and Dad was left pretty much kicking his heals for 1977 (which would probably explain my birth 8 years after my youngest sister, he had nothing better to do Valentines day '77 so I was produced November '77!!) due to his Vauxhall only contract (his own fault for winning the Escort Mexico championship from Jody Scheckter in 1971 and finishing second by seven seconds to Roger Clark on the Avon tour in 1974; Vauxhall never let him do anything non-GM without their blessing, which included missing Le Mans with BMW twice, one of Dad's biggest regrets) other than the Spa 24 hours result, which even to this day is known as Vauxhall's best ever international race/result and that's even with Peter Brock handicapping Dad (again a story for another day!!).
Anyway, I have some great pictures of the car and it does look fantastic, completely different to Baby Bertha. If you can remember how Big Bertha looked like a very well honed Ventora, then that is what Mega Bertha looked like, a very well honed Cavalier, whereas Old Nail and Baby Bertha looked like Frienzas on different types of steroids!! Basically Mega was a Cavalier widen by a foot
As to the cars existence that is another story. It does still exist, but it's very hard to say how much, as the car was never finished. I have tried contacting the current owner and he's not interested in listening to what I (with Dad's archive) have to say and I am happy to authenticate what it is, as the pictures and information I have seen (that he once sent to Dad) are correct and extremely interesting and I would love to see the car going; can you imagine the noise of an 8.1 Chevy??
If someone can PM how to post pictures on Photo Bucket I've got some great ones of BB and MB.
P.S. Gary and Phil you're more than welcome to see the pictures some time, my race car is now in Eddlesborough, so even closer to MK, just PM me some time.
Greg, good to see you can find time to post pics whilst at work!!!, nothing changes from the days we worked together at Ford i see, 
Have sent you a PM via your website address fella.
Gentlemen some of the stories i could tell you about this young man
but most of them would need an 18 certificate.
Heres to a cracking 2007
you deserve it.
Have sent you a PM via your website address fella.
Gentlemen some of the stories i could tell you about this young man
but most of them would need an 18 certificate. Heres to a cracking 2007
you deserve it. Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff