Brands Hatch Thread
Discussion
Dancin said:
Come on d drinks spill the beans?
What's the crack, Championship rules not working correctly?
What's the crack, Championship rules not working correctly?
It wasn't James or the EERC or the championship rules in this case. The event was managed by the MSA as it was their event. Saturday was a very hard day and take nothing away from Jay, who drove a good race. But the full story will remain with those who were involved during the event, needless to say miffed doesn't quite cover things......
On the plus side, it was great to race in front of a big crowd, with good weather and thanks to team GBR we had a very nice place to work the race from, so cheers guys!!
Simon Leith said:
It was a great weekend for us. I had never raced on the GP circuit before and it was our first race in the MISTRAL M3, and we had a 2nd and 3rd in Class 1. Happy days! 
Would be great if anyone has any pics of our car...???
Would be great if anyone has any pics of our car...???
A couple for you:
By the way me and the other half thought your car looked fantastic
. 
Yes as clarified it was an MSVR event, the judicial process is of course "managed" at the circuit by the MSA Steward. The race was clerked by the usual EERC Clerk.
Simon Leith, the Spanish timekeepers were looking for you on Sunday. Something about a transponder that was hired from them? Hopefully someone tracked you down.
Simon Leith, the Spanish timekeepers were looking for you on Sunday. Something about a transponder that was hired from them? Hopefully someone tracked you down.
Edited by Piglet on Monday 30th April 22:10
d_drinks said:
Dancin said:
Come on d drinks spill the beans?
What's the crack, Championship rules not working correctly?
What's the crack, Championship rules not working correctly?
It wasn't James or the EERC or the championship rules in this case.
I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
As I understand it your clerk made the decision not to change the race duration on the screen as this would have screwed the pitstop window. The normal response to this situation would have been to show the revised distance on the timing screen.
Your regs (fairly uniquely I think) have the pit stop window as a percentage of race duration and as most teams didn't have access to a timing screen it would have been difficult to ensure all teams were notified of any revised duration in enough time for them to re-calculate the pitstop window and act on it. Once the cars are on track you can't hear the tannoy or commentary in the pit lane so the clerk chose to leave the pit stop window the same (30%-70% of the original race distance) rather than run the risk of some teams knowing that the duration had changed and some not knowing and risking a penalty as your reg's have mandatory penalties not discretionary ones for these issues.
The driver change window as a percentage seems tricky to me if there is any doubt over the race duration. I'm also not sure from your regs how a red flag would affect it?
Sadly another situation where it ruins someones race and the teams big effort and yet no one wants to take the responsibility. This kind of thing in motor racing is a total disgrace and needs to be stopped. This isn't a dig at the EERC crowd but for sure they should at the least know who took the decision and stand up for their own championship.
The reality I think of this situation was that a car broke a driveshaft crossing from the outer paddock and trapped some other competitors behind it. So given the delayed start, if the race was always going to finish at a given time - had that been communicated it would have been easy for team to adopt.
When a driver makes a mistake he gets fined, endorsed and even banned. When officials cock up, as they frequently do, nothing.
The reality I think of this situation was that a car broke a driveshaft crossing from the outer paddock and trapped some other competitors behind it. So given the delayed start, if the race was always going to finish at a given time - had that been communicated it would have been easy for team to adopt.
When a driver makes a mistake he gets fined, endorsed and even banned. When officials cock up, as they frequently do, nothing.
2priestsferrari said:
So given the delayed start, if the race was always going to finish at a given time - had that been communicated it would have been easy for team to adopt.
It's always easy to look for someone to blame but sometimes things occur that aren't necessarily anyones fault.
I think it was a pretty no win position given the regs regarding the pit stop window. I don't know how, on the ground, you could communicate that information instantly to 44 (?) teams at the same time so that one competitor isn't given the information signifantly ahead of others? If the time had been changed on the timing screens not all of the teams would have seen it (there were only a handful of screens left up in the pit lane), those that didn't would then have stopped outside of the pit stop window and been unhappy with their mandatory penalties.
I have complete sympathy with all of the teams involved. I also understand how the situation came about and I'm not sure how it could in reality have been dealt with differently.
One solution would have been to have bulletined a revised race distance at the time the race was started as that was the only time that the duration of the race was known ('ish - they actually got five minutes longer than was intended I think in an effort to give some more race time). That would then have to have been circulated to all of the teams and signed for - some of the teams would have got the info ahead of others and could have changed their strategies sooner - this would have upset those competitors that were told later (been there done that have tshirt!).
A short solution would be to amend the reg's to clarify that the pit stop window will be 30% - 70% of the originally specified race distance no matter how long the race actually runs for. Then if the race duration changes the timing screen would just be changed normally as it wouldn't affect the window this would give the teams a fighting chance of knowing what is going on.
This would also avoid the protests that are likely to happen in the event that one of these races is red flagged, currently, at that point the race duration will be shorter, and on the basis of the regs as they stand there is a very good argument that the window should be calculated on the actual race time so probably a good number of the teams will have stopped outside the window albeit at the time they stopped they were correct based on the original race distance...(still with me?!)
The problem with this (and as it stands at the moment) is that it would allow for pitstops outside of 50% of the original race distance at which point the race could already have been stopped!
It's why most regs specify X minutes to X minutes as a window and try to avoid the end of the window falling into the period in which the race could be stopped and not restarted (50% for Nat B, 75% for Nat A & above) without providing for what should happen in that situation.
2priestsferrari said:
The reality I think of this situation was that a car broke a driveshaft crossing from the outer paddock and trapped some other competitors behind it.
That was on Sunday, not Saturday...which was when the race length was shortened. And if it was a driveshaft, I'd been able to push it! Myself and a few others tried our hardest to shove it, but I believe the brakes must have locked on. A Land Rover came to the rescue fortunately.
A nightmare situation for the cars stuck behind.
The Saturday race was delayed i think due to a car being on the 'in' single track that links the bottom paddock with the pitlane and not being able to move or taking time to move so the 8 or cars behind were stuck - i was on the grid at the time so didn't see, just heard about the cuas inthe paddock after the race. The race started around 8mins late. The press and the teams/drivers were ALL told at the briefings that all races would finish at the program time regardless of when they start. The Britcar race on the Sat had to finish on time as there were 100s of people queued up waiting for the A1 GP driver signing session in the pitlane.
We all knew the race started late, but also that the race would finish as per the event program. The clock at the end of the pitlane was wrong in that is simply counted down from 50 to 0 mins teams using this or the timing screen would have seen x mins to go based on a 50min race, what the reality was it that the race was shorted right from the green flag! Also 'the chequered flag can be thrown at the clerk of the course discretion ' roughly what the blue books says. Yet this was ignored on the day.
Not a great day. But read the story on DSC and you can see which side the EERC is on...
We all knew the race started late, but also that the race would finish as per the event program. The clock at the end of the pitlane was wrong in that is simply counted down from 50 to 0 mins teams using this or the timing screen would have seen x mins to go based on a 50min race, what the reality was it that the race was shorted right from the green flag! Also 'the chequered flag can be thrown at the clerk of the course discretion ' roughly what the blue books says. Yet this was ignored on the day.
Not a great day. But read the story on DSC and you can see which side the EERC is on...
Edited by d_drinks on Tuesday 1st May 12:43
So I think what it comes down to then is that the new race length couldn't be communicated.. which is pretty poor really.
It would have been easy to announce on tannoy prior to the green flag lap, easy to send the many pitlane marshalls around with a note, easy to ammend the timing screens and easy to show the correct minutes to go on the start finish line lap timer.
Nothing was done because the people who could do that have no consequence if they don't do it and so just couldn't be bothered...
Even worse you told the race commentators about the shortened race and specifically told them not to say anything...Like I said a disgrace and those involved in the deliberate avoidance of the facts should be ashamed.
It would have been easy to announce on tannoy prior to the green flag lap, easy to send the many pitlane marshalls around with a note, easy to ammend the timing screens and easy to show the correct minutes to go on the start finish line lap timer.
Nothing was done because the people who could do that have no consequence if they don't do it and so just couldn't be bothered...
Even worse you told the race commentators about the shortened race and specifically told them not to say anything...Like I said a disgrace and those involved in the deliberate avoidance of the facts should be ashamed.
2priestsferrari said:
So I think what it comes down to then is that the new race length couldn't be communicated.. which is pretty poor really.
It would have been easy to announce on tannoy prior to the green flag lap, easy to send the many pitlane marshalls around with a note, easy to ammend the timing screens and easy to show the correct minutes to go on the start finish line lap timer.
Nothing was done because the people who could do that have no consequence if they don't do it and so just couldn't be bothered...
Even worse you told the race commentators about the shortened race and specifically told them not to say anything...Like I said a disgrace and those involved in the deliberate avoidance of the facts should be ashamed.
It would have been easy to announce on tannoy prior to the green flag lap, easy to send the many pitlane marshalls around with a note, easy to ammend the timing screens and easy to show the correct minutes to go on the start finish line lap timer.
Nothing was done because the people who could do that have no consequence if they don't do it and so just couldn't be bothered...
Even worse you told the race commentators about the shortened race and specifically told them not to say anything...Like I said a disgrace and those involved in the deliberate avoidance of the facts should be ashamed.
Who are the "you" in your last para? The EERC were as surprised as anyone when the race was flagged at 42 minutes
Edited by Paul Dishman on Tuesday 1st May 13:51
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